PS95
Well-Known Member
All I did was ask a question. Will you answer it? Ok so you allow him in the cong and just ignore his "performance"? How would you "counsel" that person. You call yourself a teacher, right, and a pastor?
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I answered you, clearly, already.
I explained that my "council" is to find out if you @PS95 , or this homosexual were practicing "Gay sexuality", and you or them also claimed to be A Christian, .......and im in charge of the situation,.. Im the help.... so then we are going to find out if Salvation has occurred, in this case.
And from there, we take the next necessary steps.
I explained to you that when a so called "Christian" is practicing deep sinful behavior....like Gay Sexuality....then its not certain that thay are born again., which explains their core behavioral issue.
I even used an example given by Billy Graham as he was also asked a similar "gotcha" question.
Its a very common ploy used by carnal hyper religious self righteous people.
Im more often asked by this type....>"well if they murder someone after they are saved, are they still FORGIVEN"......
Like that.......same type "gotcha" nonsense, pretending to be a sincere question, asked by someone who knows little to nothing about what Jesus has finished on The Cross, 2000 yrs ago.
For me this is a gigantic YAWN type of question......but for the members here who are following my Thread but are not posting, they are just watching and trying to figure it all out... , i try to be obligated to them, for their sake.... to answer even the most foolish questions that people like you, will post.
Did you want to post it again, and pretend a little longer that you've not been answered?
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Its best if we keep the discussion directly related to the Thread's Topic.
But i'll answer your non-related question.
Im not a called Pastor, and i do teach a lot in this world.
One of my Brothers, older, now deceased, is a Pastor.
My younger brother, is a Missionary, .. He's currently called to the Ukraine, in Odessa, (Kiev) with His wife for about 30 yrs.
They are currently in a hard place, a difficult situation, because of Putin's invasion, which was caused by NATO and the USA and A choice that Zelenskyy made, for the most part, but thats a different Thread's topic.
My Ministry, or calling is to be an Evangelist who teaches.
So, while i can perform the office of a Pastor, or Music Minister, as i am a musician most of my life,... my calling is not "Pastor".
I knew this even before i was seminiary trained, quite a few years ago.
Ive posted about 400 Threads here on this particular forum, and they are 99% Teaching (Paul's doctrine) , with a strong push of Evangelism, as well.
This is why im always talking about "The Cross of Christ"., and what this means, as this is the heart of Evangelism, and its the heart of a real Evangelist.
A real Evangelist will always be obsessed with God's Grace, and The Cross of Christ, and that is because they are the SAME Thing.
And reader, if that is "news to you" then you need a new church home, as your's is not feeding you the right truth.
Paul the Apostle was also obsessed with Christ, and stated that "We preach CHRIST Crucified"..
And right there Reader, is how you can discern if a so called "teacher" or "Evangelist" is the real deal.
Its very simple......We will always talk to you about The Cross of Christ and the Blood of Jesus and the Grace of God that is : 1.) God's Gift of Righteousness, 2.) God's Gift of Salvation, that is : 3.) God's Gift of Righteousness.
And when they are a FAKE, they will not have talked to you about The Cross of Christ all the YEARS they are here.... and they will mostly talk to you about Moses Law, SIN, and Commandment Keeping, = instead.
See, you can't teach about the Cross of Christ if you've never been there....
Instead, they will talk to you about "doing righteousness to be righteous"....or Calvinism, or Universalism, or other "ism's" such as Preterism, that reveal that the teacher is a deceived, religious, fakir.
Learn to hear this, and you can keep yourself from being Deceived by these "dark lights".
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PS95
Well-Known Member
It's not a gotcha question. It's a question to get you to think- since you always say "performance" after being "saved" does not matter.
Of course it does- as you've just shown. You can't be saved and live in sins.
Performance can't save you but if you are saved you will not live that way any longer. Jesus changes people.
No homos or murderers, idolaters etc-- will be in the kingdom of God, remember? Paul said that more than once.
I have given you all sorts of horrid hypotheticals of people claiming to be saved and yet- leaving the faith, living in all sorts of sins and dying rejecting Jesus on here- to which you always say they are STILL SAVED.
It's not just a head knowledge believing -- it will be SEEN in behavior also.
We can not be workers of lawlessness, call Jesus our Lord- and expect to be saved! Why can't you accept what Jesus said?
WE WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS,
OR is- there is no moral law we should obey.. according to you? Which is it?
You need to start being honest @PS95
Listen, Ive never stated that discipleship.....(performance after you are saved) does not matter.
What i stated is that God is not interested in your works......He's interested in your Faith.
If you own a bible, then read a NT verse .. Heb 11:6.... that says that you = please God by your faith.... or you can't please Him.
So, a Christian's works are just the fruit of their Faith.
The Works are not the root.
The ROOT is the Faith that allows God to bloom the works through the Believer ... as "fruit".
Reader, take note that.......Religious people obsess about works and Law, and Real Christians are devoted to faith + obedience.
If you own a bible, and you read JAMES.......>>He says that our works prove our faith......but not before God.
Our works prove our faith is not DEAD.........before other PEOPLE, is what James teaches., when he's discussing "dead faith".
God already knows all about your faith, as He can see your HEART @PS95.... He sees your innermost MOTIVES.
We were all of us...... living in Sin, until the very instant that God saved us.... "while we were yet sinners".
It interesting that self righteous people forgot that they were doing NO WORKS for God, during their LIFETIME of SINNING< and then one day, they Trusted in Christ and God saved them, eternally.
Later they are all caught up in Moses Law and .... "look at my works".... "Let me tell you about my SELF righteousness" behavior.
Do you see their problem?
They dont see it... at all.
Yes, i previously explained this to you 2x when i answered your question 2x, about the "Gay" person.
I told you 2x, that if they are practicing sin as a lifestyle , then more then likely they are not truly saved.
There is a 3rd option....... they are truly saved, and they are like DEMAS....of whom the NT declared.... "loved this present world".
Now he was born again, but made a bad decision.
And according to Paul.........if you do that........if you decide to go back and live in deep dark sinful pleasure....not just watching say... an occasional "R" rated Netflix episode or having too much wine.......or .....you get the picture......but if a born again Believer decides to return 100% into the world, into total carnality... TO LIVE IN IT........then Paul says......>"you will die".
So, dont try that one Reader.... as there is no mental torment that is worse then to be on your death bed, WIDE AWAKE.... believing that you are about to go to Hell.
Paul was not speaking about born again Christians, in that verse you partly posted.
The fact is......... the KOG is also made up of saved sinners, and some of them were practicing Homosexuals, and even worse.
See, .. "Jesus came into the world to save sinners"......and we all qualified.
We've all broken all the 10 Commandments by word, deed, or thought.
Therefore.......Everyone is pre-qualified to receive God's Gift of Salvation, because...>"ALL have sinned, there is none righteous.......No NOT ONE"..
Being a sinner is what pre-qualifies us for Etneral life, and """ the Gift of Righteousness".
You are connecting me to your religious point of view, and that shoe wont fit me, @PS95 .
Here is what you need to try to understand.
A.) A person who is born again, was not born again because they deserved it..
AA.) A person, a Believer who is born again, can never stop being born again.
Being born again is an ETERNAL BIRTH.....>"in Christ".
Being born again, is the only PROOF that a person is a Christian.., as everything else can be faked and God knows that Forums like this one are filled with religious fakirs who obsess on LAW and COMMANDMENTS and Self Righteous WORKS.
The NT teaches (Paul teaches) that a minister of the Devil will FAKE being a Christian, as that is how they deceive you.
They will endless talk about "chrisitan topics".. often they want to discuss "righteousness" but they can't connect it to The Cross, because they've never personally met Jesus there.........so, their rightoueness theology is always based on them keeping law and commandments and trying to be GOOD......and none of that is God's Righteousness.
Every believer should (morally) live inside the 10 commandments as they are a lifestyle boundary, but they can't save you.
And that is because Moses Law and The 10 Commandments, DEMAND righteousness from you......but are unable to provide it to you.
Only God can provide righteousness to a sinner, and He does this by "imputing righteousness" unto a Believer, as Paul teaches in Romans and Ephesians and Galatians, for example.
If you own a bible then open it to Romans 3:26, and read that God declares His """own righteousness"" unto a Believer, and that its """God who justifies all who believe in Jesus.""""
Then read Vs 22, where Paul teaches that God's Righteousness comes to all who have "FAITH in Christ"...
then read Vs 20, where Paul teaches that "no person can be justified by The LAW, before God"......and that is because the Law and 10 Commandments can only define you as a SINNER before God.
God's Salvation is "Justification by Faith"......as Paul teaches.
Reader......God's Salvation is Jesus on The Cross, and that is not a WORK you can do, and its not a Law or a Commandment you can keep.
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Ah, so you are an evangelist.....that's why your focus is on the starting point.....the milk of the word. Except you need to stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater......because after being established in the first principles of the faith, new believers need to begin to become disciplined disciples and to grow and take more ground in their life/heart. For that one needs to begin chewing on harder to digest strong meat, as well as to undergo chastisements of the Lord which help to purge and purify us. Those that remain camped out on the shore of the Red Sea resting on their laurels after escaping "Egypt" instead of picking up stakes and continuing to move onward in the Lord are at greater risk of deception. The "young" are always more vulnerable to becoming a prey to every wind of doctrine. No growth equates to no life, a state of unhealthiness, but where there is growth there is life.
Constant reassurances past the point of needing them as infants just spoils the child........spare the rod and spoil the child. That's what most churches have become, nurseries for infants. Children need the rod of discipline as they grow. They need to be challenged and encouraged and taught to do better, to grow and become better, not constantly petted and comforted and reassured, and having others change their diapers long past the point of needing it. We're not seeing too many who have attained to the full stature of Christ are we? Have we even met a single one in our life...?....it's far too rare, partially attributable to the comfort and ease of the age we have been living in I believe....which churches are reflecting.
if Christ did it all for us and there is nothing we do then why does Jesus Himself and scripture say we must do it?
I'm not saying He did not suffer and die, I am saying it is to give us union with him, and to suffer with and for Him!
the remedy for sin according to scripture is union with Christ and suffering!
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...
(grace enables us to do the will of God) ez 36:25-27
2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
(suffering)
1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
2 cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
2 cor 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
2 Tim 2:3
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
2 tim 1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
Jn 13:16
No servant is greater than his master.
Matt 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Col 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(Christian called to life of suffering)
Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Jn 15:1-6
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
(Patience Implies suffering)
Luke 21:19
In your patience possess ye your souls.
Luke 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Romans 5:3-5
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
Titus 2:2
That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done they will of God, ye might receive the promise.
James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
2 Peter 1:6
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (rev 12:17)
(resist)
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
(suffering)
1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
2 cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
2 cor 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
2 Tim 2:3
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2 tim 1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
key verse!
1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
(in glory )
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
thks
I'm not saying He did not suffer and die, I am saying it is to give us union with him, and to suffer with and for Him!
the remedy for sin according to scripture is union with Christ and suffering!
Matthew 10:38
And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
Matthew 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life...
(grace enables us to do the will of God) ez 36:25-27
2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
(suffering)
1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
2 cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
2 cor 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
2 Tim 2:3
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
2 tim 1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
Jn 13:16
No servant is greater than his master.
Matt 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Col 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
2 Timothy 2:10
Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
(Christian called to life of suffering)
Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
Jn 15:1-6
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
(Patience Implies suffering)
Luke 21:19
In your patience possess ye your souls.
Luke 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
Romans 5:3-5
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
Titus 2:2
That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done they will of God, ye might receive the promise.
James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
2 Peter 1:6
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (rev 12:17)
(resist)
James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
(suffering)
1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
2 cor 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
2 cor 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2 Thessalonians 1:5
Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
2 Tim 2:3
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
2 tim 1:8
Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
1 Peter 5:10
But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
key verse!
1 pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
(in glory )
Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
thks
You quote a lot of good verses from Paul that teaches how a saved believer should lead their lives.
What verses from Paul do you believe teach how a person today is saved & sealed in the first place including any performance conditions.
Sin is not being a doer of the Torah (Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7, 1 John 2:6), so it would be contradictory for someone to want freedom from not being a doer of the Torah while not wanting to be a doer of the Torah.
PS95
Well-Known Member
We agree.
The above was your reply to my Q which is below-
I have to say that I am absolutely confused by this reply of yours to me @Behold .. Can you help me out here?
You wrote a "Truly Saved" born again- person who indulges in a life of sinning- returning to the world 100% is going to hell.
I agree with you that an apostate is a person who left the faith and reverts to his old ways to live in- will not be saved.
BUT you have never once agreed with me on this before. Never. This has always been my very beef with your teachings.
So you do agree with me that salvation can be lost by a willful decision to depart. What made you see this?
Let me ask you this- do you equate hell with the lake of fire/.. 2nd death?
Listen,
I could never teach that the Born again can end up in hell, as i know better.
So, its a simple case of you misunderstanding what i was writing in regards to the end of DEMAS, and then i followed up with how this applies exactly to anyone who is about to die, and all their Christian life they BELIEVED they could lose their Salvation.
@PS95 ....... I have literally have posted in many of my own Threads on this Forum about this very topic/question.....that details deeply the truth about that false teaching........ for the deceived Believer who believes they can "lose it".
I explain in many of the Threads ive written here and in probably 400 posts....= that if a Born again Christian "goes to Hell" after they die, then so does JESUS, GOD, and the Holy Spirit, as all 3, are "Christ in You, the Hope of Glory"......all 3 are IN the Christian and the Christian is "in Christ and "one with God".
So, if the CHRISTian goes to Hell, then so would they..... and that wont ever happen, READERS.
No worries.
Now, Listen up, and try to read more carefully this time... @PS95
I never said that a born again person is going to hell, in any Thread on This Forum, or on all the others where im found teaching for many years.
What i posted to YOU< was and is for you..... and that is = that its a horrible situation for a believer = to believe..they are going to hell , when they are on their death bed....and they = /BELIEVE they are going to Hell.
Thats what i wrote, and you didnt read it correctly.
See, if you BELIEVE they you can lose you salvation now, today, or ever...., then once you get to the end, you will BELIEVE you have lost it, and that is a terrible way for a Christian to die... as that is minute by minute TORTURE in your mind and heart.
And this is what is waiting for the DECEIVED CHRISTIAN, who is all their Christian Life completely of touch with the understanding of God's Son's ETERNAL Salvation.
Jesus said that if you give Him your faith, if you = believe in Him, = then He will give unto you ETENRAL LIFE., and you shall never Perish.
(Perish, means, go to hell)., ........so, you will NEVER go to Hell if you are a Christian truly born again, as Jesus has already given you Eternal life.. and this is HIMSELF, as :
= "Christ in you, the hope of Glory".. (Glory is Heaven).
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Freedom : From Sin
Yes, for they who ARE “IN” Christ…
operative word … IN.
Because…
They who “ARE” IN Christ… Christ is ALSO “IN Them… and Christ the Lord God…
Does Not, Can Not, Dwell IN Sin.
Glory to God,
Taken
Yes, for they who ARE “IN” Christ…
operative word … IN.
Because…
They who “ARE” IN Christ… Christ is ALSO “IN Them… and Christ the Lord God…
Does Not, Can Not, Dwell IN Sin.
Glory to God,
Taken
Sin only exists where you find Moses's Law which defines it, or in the case of say, the Garden of Eden, "sin was in the world", but it was not defined yet by Moses Law as : Sin, = because Moses Law was not yet given.
So, because the "born again are > """""not under the Law (Of Moses) but under (God's) GRACE,"""" then they are never again defined by The Law as anything, ever again. = Forever.
This is how we become "made free from sin"........as there is no dominion of the Law over the born again, that can define them as anything.
We are now defined as "IN the KOG", as "made righteous", a "new Creation, in Christ".
Readers, here is a mytery for you....
Jesus is currently seated at the "right hand" of the Father, and so are we.......as we are "in Christ"..."seated in heavenly places".
This means that when God SEES us...........He only SEES US AS "in Christ'........a "new Creation"., a "heir of God", .. the "temple of the Holy Spirit".......a "SAINT"... "born again".
And when WE GET THAT SAME MIND, that same Understanding that God has, regarding who we have BECOME in Christ, that is based on believing that Jesus keeps you saved.......then we have put on "the Helmet of Salvation" because we have "worked out our Salvation".........that is simply to understand it as God has provided it as "the GIFT of Salvation", and "The Gift of Righteousness".
Paul said that when you get there in your RIGHT FAITH.....then you are : "as many as be PERFECT"........in your UNDERSTANDING.
See that?
Thats your goal.....and when you get there......then God's Grace becomes the power of your discipleship, as now you are resting in His Grace, instead of trying to perform self righteous DEEDS, to try to stay saved.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Disagree.
In brief…
*God Created AND Made all things.
*God established Mosaic Laws.
*God established Statutes, Laws, Commands, Precepts, Trespasses.
*Violations of Moses Laws was Sin.
*Animals Blood was the “repetitive” Sin offering for Forgiveness.
*Moses Law was fulfilled, with Jesus’ Blood.
*Making, Precepts and Trespasses are ongoing / Improving with positive consequences or dulled ie. worsening, with negative consequences.
**In ANY ERA of History…
*Sin is Against God.
*Sin is Unbelief in the Lord God Almighty.
*The Lord God Almighty ALONE has the Power to Forgive Sin of Unbelief.
*Salvation Is Offered to Living men.
*Salvation Is given to men whose body’s are accounted Forgiven ( for having HAD unbelief ) and Dead.
Glory to God,
Taken
God has already used His "power" to forigive ALL sin, including unbelief<<<<.
This power is The Cross of Christ, and Paul describes this power as "Where sin abounds, GRACE more abounds".
In fact, everyone who is saved, use to be an UNBELIEVER......which means they have already been forgiven this sin also, by God's Son's Blood and Death.
Salvation is not difficult to understand.........its simply to understand : that a SINNER has no righteousness., and without righteousness, its impossible to be SAVED... as we have to have the same righteousness as GOD, or we are rejected.
Today thousands went to Hell, not because of sin, but because they had no righteousness and that is because a Christ Rejector, never received any from God, as "The Gift of Righteousness" and without it, you can't go to Heaven, and the only other option found in eternity after we die : = is HELL.
So, how does a SINNER, become Righteous?
"its not by works".
"its not by water baptism"
"Its not by trying to keep commandments".
"its not by repenting of sin".
A.) The sinner has to be GIVEN.........God's Righteousness, as a Gift the same way that Abraham received it.
Like this.....>>"Abraham BELIEVED God........and his FAITH was counted by God as righteouenss".".
This means that once Abraham gave God his Faith....God then gave Abraham His Righteousness.., as "the imputed righteousness".......and """for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe"""... Paul teaches.
So, this is "justification by faith".
Where does this happen?
It happens on The Cross........as this is where.....>>"God hath made Jesus TO BE SIN FOR US">.......and in EXCHANGE we receive "Christ's righteousness" that is the "imputed righteousness" that Paul defines as "the GIFT of Righteousness".
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I never posted that, so, you are now a 2x confirmed Liar @PS95 as, you've now misquoted me 2x.
So, i'll post the actual quote for you, and for anyone else who would want to check it out.
Now....Here is my Quote, and you'll noticed if you can READ.....which seems to be difficult for you......that i said that a believer on their deathbead is going to suffer terribly because if they never learned what it means to be SAVED, then they will die believing they are not and that fear is mind bending when you are on your deathbed.
Thats a fact that a lot of "i can lose my salvation" nutbars are going to find out if they NEVER LEARN what it means to be given "The Gift of Righteousness" that is "The Gift of Salvation".
Now, i never said they would end up in Hell, as a Christian can't go to hell........ i only told you that they would BELIEVE they were going there.., when they were on their DEATHBED.
Here is my Quote...
Read it again carefully, and try to be a more honest person in the future... @PS95 .
@Behold wrote:
""""""""There is a 3rd option....... they are truly saved, and they are like DEMAS....of whom the NT declared.... "loved this present world".
= Now he was born again, but made a bad decision.
And according to Paul.........if you do that........if you decide to go back and live in deep dark sinful pleasure....not just watching say... an occasional "R" rated Netflix episode or having too much wine.......or .....you get the picture......but if a born again Believer decides to return 100% into the world, into total carnality... TO LIVE IN IT........then Paul says......>"you will die".
So, dont try that one Reader.... as there is no mental torment that is worse then to be on your death bed, WIDE AWAKE.... believing that you are about to go to Hell."""""""
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PS95
Well-Known Member
By your mouth you will be judged= every word, Behold.
Don't call me a liar because you can't write coherently.
Just calling a brother or sister a fool puts you in danger of hellfire according to JESUS
But I forgot- your Paul wrote that your magic altar prayer made you sinless -so you can do whatever you want...
You misquoted me, 2x... on purpose.... to try to prove your lie.
So, you are the only one here who needs to be concerned about "judgement".
Thats a fact @PS95
Think on that more carefully.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt previously, regarding your initial misquote of my post.... and told you so, and then i gave you a detailed explanation also......and then you posted the misquote AGAIN.
This is known as "willfully" doing it.
So, you are a dishonest person, who is here again, proving it. @PS95
You are such a confused religious person.
You read verses you can't understand and then you try to prove your religious nonsense using them @PS95 .
Thats a FAIL., everytime you continue to do it @PS95
So, Let me tell you AGAIN..
There are NO CHRISTIANS found in Hell........and there are NO CHRIST REJECTORS , never born again, found in Heaven.
But I forgot- your Paul wrote that your magic altar prayer made you sinless -so you can do whatever you want...
Paul wrote all the Church Doctrine. Church Doctrine is found in the EPISTLEs.....and Paul wrote most of them.
Any Real Bible student finds this out.
You never did.
I only teach Pauline Theology, or "Paul's Doctrine" and you have no idea what this is.......unless you read what im posting, or you "Google it".
Also, as i previous explained to you regarding a Christian who is truly born again, who has decided to live like the devil....= "Demas loved this present world" and went back into it..
Paul teaches that if you do that, then God will "Heb 12:6" you for a while.
And during those years you are willfully backslidden, you will lose everything....... you'll lose your Ministry if you are a Pastor.. You'll lose your way in life.. Your Finances will be shattered. Marriage falls apart, Children are ruined ........everything you had, will be taken by the Devil, and finally you'll lose your life.
= Those are the consequences for willfully deciding to Leave God behind, and pursue "what feels good all the time".
And if you still refuse to repent and turn from that willful worldliness, after you've lost everything... and after Heb 12:6 have crushed you a few times as well.... then Paul teaches that you will : DIE.
@PS95 , those are the consequences that find every willful backslider, who will not REPENT.
And if you die like that..........you die born again, so, even tho you lost your LIFE down Here because of your willful decision, you never lost your Eternal Life "in Christ" as that Salvation is Eternal.
A.) You can't stop being born again.
This is why Demas will be right there with the rest of the Born again in Heaven or down here in Jerusalem during Christ's Reign..., Right along with others who also made bad choices later on after God saved them. \
And Reader, on the day that God saved them, God knew they were going to do that later.....and God saved them anyway, as God knows that you can't lose His Salvation, but you can certainly wreck your own life by CHOICES you make after you receive God's Gift of Salvation.
Choices always bring consequenes.......because every deed-choice you make is a seed you are planting in the supernatural realm that will REAP a natual harvest back into your life.
PS95
Well-Known Member
You should apologize to me.
QUOTING YOUR VERY WORDS IS NOT A MISQUOTE!
Not understanding your convoluted quote is not the same as a misquote. I never once misquoted you. How dare you LIE?
Here it is again!!
Never call me a liar again.
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