Marry in Registry Office

[David Lamb]

Very sorry to hear about your wife ... MS is a very challenging disease.

In Australia, the government will adjust age pension payments on whether two people are sharing accommodation or are married.

Thank you. It was very much a merciful release for her, as towards the end, she was completely bedridden, and unable to do anything for herself. Thanks again.

 

[doctrox]

That doesn't fit with what we read in Romans 13:

Your conundrum arises because you're reading from a copyrighted invention of men - men who claim ownership over their invention.

It is noteworthy that modern copyrighted “versions” of the Holy Bible have changed the phrase “higher powers” to merely “governing authorities,” thereby obscuring the necessary distinction between Godly authority and ungodly authority, between God’s kingdom and Satan’s kingdom.

I have in my hand The Holy Bible, the actual title of the AV. Neither on its indicia page, nor elsewhere, is the word “copyright” found. It is in the public domain.

Conversely, modern translations are protected by copyright law. Permission must be obtained from, and fees paid to, the men who claim to own these derivative works. And different publishers have different terms. If you want to quote more than 500 words from their invention, you will need to get their permission because it's their property. Conversely, the word of God cannot be copyrighted, because testimony cannot be copyrighted. IOW, there's no money for them in an uncopyrighted bible; it's but one reason why your quoted version has been altered.

So if you're using such an invention, then you are bound by copyright law.

Paul the apostle wrote the following words from a Roman prison, chained like a criminal. Despite his physical confinement, he expressed complete confidence that the Gospel message cannot be imprisoned, silenced, or stopped by human authorities:

Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. (2 Tim. 2:7-19).

Further, in Romans 13, does verse 1 say, ‘let every soul be subject unto all governments’? Or does it say, "let every soul (including governing authorities such as kings, judges, police, etc.) be subject unto the higher powers"? Who do souls belong to? God says:

Ezekiel 18:4, "Behold, all souls are mine."

And the second part of verse 1 tells us who “the higher powers” is: "...For there is no power but of God".

The souls of the governmental powers belong to God, and they are not the higher powers, the higher powers are held by Christ himself (Matthew 28:18). Is our Lord not the higher power, then, if all power has been committed unto him (John 17:2)? Christ is the governor among the nations (Psalms 22:28). All power over earthly kings has been given unto him (Romans 14:9). All judgment has been given unto him (John 5:22, 27). Notice the separation of power in Romans 13:1. All power comes from, and belongs to, God (Psalm 62:11) and not the one exercising it. And remember that most men, especially those constituting the "governing authorities," usually deny that power given to Jesus (2 Timothy 3:2, 5):

“For men shall be...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

As far as I am aware, there is no compulsion to sign up to the electoral roll, but only those that do so may vote.

By law, you must be on the Electoral Register if you are eligible to be on it.

But David was living in a theocracy. Neither the UK nor New Zealand is a theocracy.

King David lived in a monarchy. The question is, who is/was the monarch? And what was David's motivation for a numbering/census of the people?

my dear wife died from MS earlier this year.

I pray she was a follower of Jesus Christ. If you are, as well, you will see her again.

I can't think of anything that the UK government enforces on people who have signed a marriage certificate.

Rather, the UK government enforces several automatic legal, tax, and property obligations on people who sign a marriage certificate. Signing a UK marriage certificate initiates immediate automatic obligations regarding joint property, tax allowances, and intestate succession. These enforceable rights and duties alter how assets are taxed and divided, granting spouses legal protection but also intertwining their finances and responsibilities.

The 23rd Welfare State:

The Government is my Shepherd, I need not work. It alloweth me to lie down on a good job; It leadeth me beside still factories; It destroyeth my initiative. It leadeth me in the path of a parasite for politic's sake; Yea, though I walk through the valley of laziness and deficit-spending, I will fear no evil, for the government is with me. It prepareth an economic Utopia for me, by appropriating the earnings of my own grandchildren. It filleth my head with false security; My inefficiency runneth over. Surely the government should care for me all the days of my life, And I shall dwell in a fool's house forever.

 

[Wick Stick]

A previously unmarried non-Christian couple marry in a Registry Office.
Later they both become Christian
Are they guilty of ongoing fornication until a Pastor marries them ?

No. The Bible doesn't set forth a pastor, a judge, or even the church as the designated officiant for a marriage to be legitimate.

It does require a covenant.

 

[PeterAndroz]

No. The Bible doesn't set forth a pastor, a judge, or even the church as the designated officiant for a marriage to be legitimate.

It does require a covenant.

The rephrased question is :-
If a UNbeliever couple choose to SELF-MARRY with NO WITNESSES as allowed in Colorado
Would GOD consider them married ?

 

[PeterAndroz]

That doesn't fit with what we read in Romans 13:

(Rom 13:1) Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God.
(Rom 13:2) Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.
(Rom 13:3) For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
(Rom 13:4) For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil.
(Rom 13:5) Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake.
(Rom 13:6) For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing.
(Rom 13:7) Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.


Here in the UK one cannot vote if one is not on the electoral roll. As far as I am aware, there is no compulsion to sign up to the electoral roll, but only those that do so may vote.

But David was living in a theocracy. Neither the UK nor New Zealand is a theocracy.

Well, if anyone is going to enforce anything as a result of me having signed my marriage certificate, they will be too late, because my dear wife died from MS earlier this year. I can't think of anything that the UK government enforces on people who have signed a marriage certificate.

""""my dear wife died from MS earlier this year.
Sympathies to you DL, one day either my wife or I will also have the ''empty chair'' to look at.
The only thing that would stop that is 1 Thess 4:14-18

 

[talons]

A previously unmarried non-Christian couple marry in a Registry Office.
Later they both become Christian
Are they guilty of ongoing fornication until a Pastor marries them ?

No .

Legal is not the question.

As a Christian we DO NOT want to break the law of the land where we reside . Legal is the minimum .

So any marriage that is not based in God is not a Lawful marriage.

Scripture to support this ?

It does require a covenant.

Scripture to support this ? A contract by the gov where you reside , maybe that is a covenant also .

If a UNbeliever couple choose to SELF-MARRY with NO WITNESSES as allowed in Colorado
Would GOD consider them married ?

I think so . There are no marriage ceremony requirements in the Bible .

There's no clear outline for a wedding ceremony at all.

Winner ! Winner ! Chicken Dinner !

 

[Wick Stick]

The rephrased question is :-
If a UNbeliever couple choose to SELF-MARRY with NO WITNESSES as allowed in Colorado
Would GOD consider them married ?
View attachment 85816

The lack of officiant isn't a problem. The lack of witnesses may be.

What is required is an enforceable covenant. If there are no witnesses to hear vows, the covenant lacks accountability. If you have the vows written down and made a public record, that would remedy the lack of witnesses.

The legality notwithstanding, I suspect God recognizes as married any couple engaged in a monogamous relationship, provided that they don't have some attachment to a former spouse/lover.

 

[PeterAndroz]

No .

As a Christian we DO NOT want to break the law of the land where we reside . Legal is the minimum .

Scripture to support this ?

Scripture to support this ? A contract by the gov where you reside , maybe that is a covenant also .

I think so . There are no marriage ceremony requirements in the Bible .

Winner ! Winner ! Chicken Dinner !

If a UNbeliever couple choose to SELF-MARRY with NO WITNESSES as allowed in Colorado
Would GOD consider them married ?

""""I think so . There are no marriage ceremony requirements in the Bible .
Except for Adam & Eve, no witnesses required ?
UNbelievers can self-marry without witnesses & GOD considers them married ?

 

[Wick Stick]

Scripture to support this ? A contract by the gov where you reside , maybe that is a covenant also

Most marriage licenses don't actually set out any terms. The vows recited at the ceremony serve the purpose.

Malachi 2:14 describes marriage as a covenant:
Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet [is] she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

It's also built into the Hebrew language. חָתַן (H2859) implies a covenant between the groom and the father-of-the-bride.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Most marriage licenses don't actually set out any terms. The vows recited at the ceremony serve the purpose.

Malachi 2:14 describes marriage as a covenant:
Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet [is] she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

It's also built into the Hebrew language. חָתַן (H2859) implies a covenant between the groom and the father-of-the-bride.

Yet what about UNbeliever couples who choose to self-marry, no witnesses, no ok from the parents as allowed in Colorado ?
Does GOD then accept them as married ?

 

[doctrox]

As a Christian we DO NOT want to break the law of the land where we reside . Legal is the minimum .

In God's kingdom, there is no such distinction made between God's Law and man's "law of the land."

And "legal" is not "Lawful."

legal = A matter of construction, rather than established by actual proof. - Black's Law Dictionary, p. 1038.
"legal" is not the law, but merely the color of law.

As a Christian we DO NOT want to break the law of the land where we reside . Legal is the minimum .

"Reside" is a legal term, from the lex mercatoria (Law Merchant, private for-profit copyright law), the usage of which brings you under the jurisdiction of the corporation that invented it aka "Caesar."

The legality notwithstanding, I suspect God recognizes as married any couple engaged in a monogamous relationship, provided that they don't have some attachment to a former spouse/lover.

Yes, as God's common grace goes back to the garden.

 

[Wick Stick]

Yet what about UNbeliever couples who choose to self-marry, no witnesses, no ok from the parents as allowed in Colorado ?
Does GOD then accept them as married ?

It depends on other factors you haven't listed here.

Is the couple engaged in a monogamous relationship? Heterosexual? Are they both considered adults such that they are able to contract on their own behalf? Are they both unmarried? Is either encumbered by a previous relationship that God would consider a marriage?

If the relationship passes all those tests, then I suspect God would bless it. It does not expressly say so in Scripture.

 

[PeterAndroz]

The lack of officiant isn't a problem. The lack of witnesses may be.

What is required is an enforceable covenant. If there are no witnesses to hear vows, the covenant lacks accountability. If you have the vows written down and made a public record, that would remedy the lack of witnesses.

The legality notwithstanding, I suspect God recognizes as married any couple engaged in a monogamous relationship, provided that they don't have some attachment to a former spouse/lover.

"""I suspect God recognizes as married any couple engaged in a monogamous relationship, provided that they don't have some attachment to a former spouse/lover.
A virgin UNbeliever couple who then fornicate who have reached the age of accountability who self-marry without any witnesses or parental consent is considered MARRIED in the eyes of GOD ?
What verses support that ?

 

[PeterAndroz]

It depends on other factors you haven't listed here.

Is the couple engaged in a monogamous relationship? Heterosexual? Are they both considered adults such that they are able to contract on their own behalf? Are they both unmarried? Is either encumbered by a previous relationship that God would consider a marriage?

If the relationship passes all those tests, then I suspect God would bless it. It does not expressly say so in Scripture.

Are male & female, of reproductive age eg early teens yet understand their actions.
Have previously fornicated with others but now only with each other.
Decide to self-marry without witnesses or parental consent
GOD would then consider them married ?

 

[PeterAndroz]

It depends on other factors you haven't listed here.

Is the couple engaged in a monogamous relationship? Heterosexual? Are they both considered adults such that they are able to contract on their own behalf? Are they both unmarried? Is either encumbered by a previous relationship that God would consider a marriage?

If the relationship passes all those tests, then I suspect God would bless it. It does not expressly say so in Scripture.

Thx for your response.
I have rephrased the scenario:-
...
Are male & female, of reproductive age eg early teens yet understand their actions.
Are UNbelievers.
Have previously fornicated with others but now only with each other.
Decide to self-marry without witnesses or parental consent
GOD would then consider them married ?

 

[talons]

""""I think so . There are no marriage ceremony requirements in the Bible .
Except for Adam & Eve, no witnesses required ?
UNbelievers can self-marry without witnesses & GOD considers them married ?

When you say couple that to me requires MALE and FEMALE getting married , no substitutes allowed !

There is a witness to them getting the license , they come together to get it and pony up 30 simoleons for the license .

Self Solemnization in Colorado | A Step-by-Step Guide for 2026

Self-solemnization Colorado elopement guide: step-by-step planning, legal tips, and ideas for a meaningful ‘I do’ without an officiant!

vowsandpeaks.com

 

[PeterAndroz]

When you say couple that to me requires MALE and FEMALE getting married , no substitutes allowed !

There is a witness to them getting the license , they come together to get it and pony up 30 simoleons for the license .

View attachment 85833

Self Solemnization in Colorado | A Step-by-Step Guide for 2026

Self-solemnization Colorado elopement guide: step-by-step planning, legal tips, and ideas for a meaningful ‘I do’ without an officiant!

vowsandpeaks.com

"""no substitutes allowed !
I stated that no WITNESSES were required.
eg when they journey into the hills, share the self-marry by themselves, no-one watching but them.
Yes, sure at the Office there will be some one who receives the Govt fee & files the certificate.
And yes, they will have to be of legal age for Colorado to allow it in the first place.
..
Now let's get back to the revision :-
Boy & girl, early teenage years, both able to reproduce.
Both understand what they are about to do
Both are UNbelievers
Parental consent is not given
Both have previously fornicated with others but now only with each other
They what they believe self-marry NO WITNESSES.
What Bible verses teach that GOD would accept them as married ?

 

[Wick Stick]

Thx for your response.
I have rephrased the scenario:-
...
Are male & female, of reproductive age eg early teens yet understand their actions.
Are UNbelievers.
Have previously fornicated with others but now only with each other.
Decide to self-marry without witnesses or parental consent
GOD would then consider them married ?

In this scenario, I'm not sure God would consider them... at all. They are living as enemies of the faith.

If at some point they believe and repent, their prior sins would be forgiven. Once that happens, a valid marriage could occur.

That's probably a better answer in any scenario involving unbelievers.

 

[David Lamb]

Your conundrum arises because you're reading from a copyrighted invention of men - men who claim ownership over their invention.

It is noteworthy that modern copyrighted “versions” of the Holy Bible have changed the phrase “higher powers” to merely “governing authorities,” thereby obscuring the necessary distinction between Godly authority and ungodly authority, between God’s kingdom and Satan’s kingdom.

I have in my hand The Holy Bible, the actual title of the AV. Neither on its indicia page, nor elsewhere, is the word “copyright” found. It is in the public domain.

Not here in the UK. The KJV here is published under what is known as "Crown Copyright." Besides, godly commentators who did not use "modern versions" believed that Romans 13 is speaking of the civil authorities, which in that time meant the Roman Empire.

By law, you must be on the Electoral Register if you are eligible to be on it.

OK, I agree with that. My mistake, sorry.

King David lived in a monarchy. The question is, who is/was the monarch? And what was David's motivation for a numbering/census of the people?


I pray she was a follower of Jesus Christ. If you are, as well, you will see her again.

She certainly was, praise God!

Rather, the UK government enforces several automatic legal, tax, and property obligations on people who sign a marriage certificate. Signing a UK marriage certificate initiates immediate automatic obligations regarding joint property, tax allowances, and intestate succession. These enforceable rights and duties alter how assets are taxed and divided, granting spouses legal protection but also intertwining their finances and responsibilities.

The UK has various laws that apply to married people as you say. Do you mean that Christian married people should not sign a marriage certificate so that the government has no knowledge that they are married? That sounds like being deceitful, which cannot be right for a Christian.

 

[talons]

"""no substitutes allowed !
I stated that no WITNESSES were required.
eg when they journey into the hills, share the self-marry by themselves, no-one watching but them.
Yes, sure at the Office there will be some one who receives the Govt fee & files the certificate.
And yes, they will have to be of legal age for Colorado to allow it in the first place.
..
Now let's get back to the revision :-
Boy & girl, early teenage years, both able to reproduce.
Both understand what they are about to do
Both are UNbelievers
Parental consent is not given
Both have previously fornicated with others but now only with each other
They what they believe self-marry NO WITNESSES.
What Bible verses teach that GOD would accept them as married ?

Jacob and Leah had no wedding ceremony and yet were considered married after one night , they were not Christians either . God WANTS the couples that have sex to be married does he not ?

They meet the requirements I can find .
Gen 2
24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Hebrews 13
4Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

Have you found any Bible verses that teach what God accepts as married ?

@Jericho won the chicken dinner already .