Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[rebuilder 454]

Who did JESUS say were 'taken' during the God's Wrath/Flood???

Mat 24
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Look to YOUR doctrine.
Maybe you are unaware what your own doctrine throws at it???
They say the wicked are taken in that passage.
Are you unaware of your own doctrine ?
So your doctrine says the wicked are raptured pretrib "before the flood" and the righteous stay to face the devil.

How ridiculous.
A wicked people rapture pretrib, and righteous stay.

Even more bizarre Is that Jesus tells us to watch and be ready.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come

Be ready to stay.?

You do that to your family?
" you guys be ready because I am coming for your wicked neighbors to take them away, and i want you to be ready to stay"

Makes zero sense.

 

[rebuilder 454]

This was great = loved the analogy = ty

Yet another red flag.
Agreeing to hate the body of Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

"Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, Whom He appointed the heir of all things, through Whom also He created the world." (Hebrews 1:1-2).

As we all know, this was written over two thousand years ago.

Grace and peace to all.

Tribulation BEGAN when Eve was deceived by the Serpent.

Count to 3 with me

the "last days" began when:
#1 - Christ defeated satan and sin on the Cross
#2 - when HE rose from the Dead and Ascended to Heaven
#3 - when the BAPTISM of the Holy Spirit Descended Upon the Elect of GOD

All 3 MUST be accomplished BEFORE the "Last Days" Began

 

[David in NJ]

Mat 24
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Look to YOUR doctrine.
Maybe you are unaware what your own doctrine throws at it???
They say the wicked are taken in that passage.
Are you unaware of your own doctrine ?
So your doctrine says the wicked are raptured pretrib "before the flood" and the righteous stay to face the devil.

How ridiculous.
A wicked people rapture pretrib, and righteous stay.

Even more bizarre Is that Jesus tells us to watch and be ready.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come

Be ready to stay.?

You do that to your family?
" you guys be ready because I am coming for your wicked neighbors to take them away, and i want you to be ready to stay"

Makes zero sense.

Whom did the LORD Say was "taken away" in Noah's Day = Matthew 24:36-44

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You changed it.
From "gathered in heaven by angels"
To ..."i come for my elect."
You skewed the words of Jesus for your doctrine.
Sad

Mark 13:27 And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am 1000% scripture based.
Show me one place I am wrong.
I have over 13 passages that say exactly what they say.
take anything.
anything.
and show me where i am wrong.
I love honest debate.
Dave and si are in no way honest.

That is a lie to say we are "in no way honest". So, that was a very ironic thing for you to say. Dave and I use scripture to back up our beliefs. I use scripture EXTENSIVELY to back up my beliefs. Meanwhile, you are ALL TALK. The next coherent argument you make using scripture will be the first one. How about you start now? Put together your understanding of what will take place in a COHERENT fashion and then people can discuss what you believe. As it is, you are very VAGUE and people can only GUESS as to what exactly you even believe is going to happen. All you do is RANT against post-trib while doing NOTHING to refute it. You refute your FALSE understanding of what post-trib is with your OWN VERSION of pre-trib that no one shares with you and that causes CONFUSION. So, CLEAR things up and present your arguments in a coherent fashion using SCRIPTURE. Can you do that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Amen to that.
Why do postribbers not heed scripture?
It is bizarre.

Why are you such a liar? I use scripture to back up my views all the time. Do you think blatantly lying about post-tribs does anything but reveal what a liar you are? Is that your goal? To announce to everyone that you think it's okay to lie about people?

 

[rebuilder 454]

I do not mind listening to what you have to say, please write what you mean but use scripture to make your point. do not forget the end time prophecy of the O.T. they give a lot of insight on how Christ will return in the last days. No rush, please take your time then we will debate if you want. I have no learned denominational preconception, all I know if from scripture and only scripture.

My fingers are numb from posting scripture.
My starting point is the bride and bridegroom.
That in itself is an education.

• Matthew 9:15: Jesus identifies Himself as the bridegroom, explaining why His disciples do not fast while He is with them.
• Matthew 25:1–13: The Parable of the Ten Virgins waiting for the bridegroom's arrival at midnight.
• Mark 2:19–20: Jesus again refers to Himself as the bridegroom during a discussion about fasting.
• John 3:29: John the Baptist calls Jesus the bridegroom and refers to himself as the "friend of the bridegroom
• 2 Corinthians 11:2: Paul writes that he has betrothed the church to one husband (Christ) to present them as a pure virgin.Ephesians 5:25–32: Paul connects human marriage to Christ and the Church, referring to the union as a "profound mystery".
• • Revelation 19:7–9: The announcement of the marriage supper of the Lamb and the bride preparing herself.
  • Revelation 21:2: John sees the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven, "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband".
  • Revelation 21:9: An angel offers to show John "the Bride, the wife of the Lamb".
  • Revelation 22:17: The Spirit and the bride say
• IOW THE NT IS THE GROOM JESUS, DEPARTTING TO HEAVEN TO LATER FETCH HIS BRiDE BACK TO HEAVEN .
• 
  
• 
  
• IF That is realized, i can move on to the wife (Israel), and the husband (God)

From that biblical dynamic is ALL ENDTIMES discerned.
And purpose realized.
Are you interested?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Whom did the LORD Say was "taken away" in Noah's Day = Matthew 24:36-44

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Your doctrine has half of a group raptured.
A group of wicked.
Half of a group removed.
That is partially true, but you can never honestly address it.
Your doctrine becomes mass confusion as you are demonstrating.
I ask you pinpoint questions and you dodge every single one.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Whom did the LORD Say was "taken away" in Noah's Day = Matthew 24:36-44

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. 43But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 44Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Zero in,
40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming

Boom.
You are getting the full truth of it.
...and yet you are dumbfounded.
Oblivious to it.

Yes indeed...WHO IS TAKEN?
Take a shot at it.
You won't

 

[David in NJ]

Zero in,
40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming

Boom.
You are getting the full truth of it.
...and yet you are dumbfounded.
Oblivious to it.

Yes indeed...WHO IS TAKEN?
Take a shot at it.
You won't

Well???

According to the words of the LORD, of the "two" = Who was taken away???

Please post the verse where the LORD was specific to exactly who was "taken" in Matthew 24:36-44

 

[rebuilder 454]

I do not mind listening to what you have to say, please write what you mean but use scripture to make your point. do not forget the end time prophecy of the O.T. they give a lot of insight on how Christ will return in the last days. No rush, please take your time then we will debate if you want. I have no learned denominational preconception, all I know if from scripture and only scripture.

If the bride /groom dynamic interests you, then you may want to know of the Wife /God dimension from Hosea and Ruth.

Once those are on the table a beginning of the heavenly perspective emerges.

End times is a panoramic of purpose

No other place will you hear those truths.
( very few actually).

....and yet end Times is never understood outside of the 2 wives.

That is the root of why some can not, and will not, embrace scripture on their plain substance.
( something must change for those "students")

 

[David in NJ]

Zero in,
40Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. 41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming

Boom.
You are getting the full truth of it.
...and yet you are dumbfounded.
Oblivious to it.

Yes indeed...WHO IS TAKEN?
Take a shot at it.
You won't

JESUS Says: BOTH will be taken

SEE = But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

The first group whom JESUS mentioned that are "taken away" are those who were "taken away by the FLOOD"

The second group JESUS mentions are His elect = "Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming"

NOTICE the strict emphasis JESUS gave to BEFORE the Flood/eating,drinking,marriage/until the day Noah entered the Ark
"they" = they whom? = "those eating, drinking and given in marriage"
"they were taken away by the FLOOD

 

[rebuilder 454]

Well???

According to the words of the LORD, of the "two" = Who was taken away???

Please post the verse where the LORD was specific to exactly who was "taken" in Matthew 24:36-44

50% taken.
Half go, half stay.
It says exactly that.
No blenderizing, no additives, no omissions.
It says EXACTLY that.

Sorry about that.

 

[David in NJ]

50% taken.
Half go, half stay.
It says exactly that.
No blenderizing, no additives, no omissions.
It says EXACTLY that.

Sorry about that.

100% AGREE = Now let us continue believing every word spoken by the LORD

 

[rebuilder 454]

JESUS Says: BOTH will be taken

SEE = But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

The first group whom JESUS mentioned that are "taken away" are those who were "taken away by the FLOOD"

The second group JESUS mentions are His elect = "Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming"

NOTICE the strict emphasis JESUS gave to BEFORE the Flood/eating,drinking,marriage/until the day Noah entered the Ark
"they" = they whom? = "those eating, drinking and given in marriage"
"they were taken away by the FLOOD

Imagine that.
You are now saying a preflood rapture where all are taken?
Jesus was really confused?
He says all are taken, then he changes to only half?

Which is it?

Wow how confusing for you.
Look....Lay aside doctrine.
Look where it is taking you.
Into a desert.
Confusion.

 

[rebuilder 454]

100% AGREE = Now let us continue believing every word spoken by the LORD

Half of what?
He says half of a group.
Half of what group?
Half of the world's population?
Half the world is saved/ born again/ worship Jesus?

 

[David in NJ]

Half of what?
He says half of a group.
Half of what group?
Half of the world's population?
Half the world is saved/ born again/ worship Jesus?

In Matthew 24:36-42 there are only two groups specified by the LORD

1st Group = "they were eating, drinking and given in marriage"

2nd Group = "the day Noah entered the Ark"

The Wrath of GOD Descended the SAME Day for BOTH Groups = "as in the days of Noah"

Only Noah(8 total) Survived the FLOOD/WRATH because they were in the ARK which GOD commanded for Noah to build.

SAME DAY for us as it were for Noah
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

 

[David in NJ]

Steeping out for now.

 

[David in NJ]

Imagine that.
You are now saying a preflood rapture where all are taken?
Jesus was really confused?
He says all are taken, then he changes to only half?

Which is it?

Wow how confusing for you.
Look....Lay aside doctrine.
Look where it is taking you.
Into a desert.
Confusion.

HalleluYAH my brother,

Noah entered the ARK = pre-Flood = pre-Wrath = Gospel = 1 thess 1:10

New Living Translation
And they speak of how you are looking forward to the coming of God’s Son from heaven—Jesus, whom God raised from the dead. He is the one who has rescued us from the terrors of the coming judgment.

English Standard Version
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

Berean Standard Bible
and to await His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead—Jesus our deliverer from the coming wrath.

Berean Literal Bible
and to await His Son from the heavens, whom He raised out from the dead—Jesus, the One delivering us from the coming wrath.

King James Bible
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

New King James Version
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

New American Standard Bible
and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is, Jesus who rescues us from the wrath to come.