The Two Witnesses Came and Went Thousands of Years Ago

[quietthinker]

Where did I ever... claim that flesh man is immortal?

You need to STOP TRYING TO PUT YOUR STUPID WORDS in other people's mouths.

Look at quietthinker's words above, NO EVIDENCE AT ALL TO BACK UP HIS PERSONAL ATTACK AGAINST ME. His doing that is a mark of a CHARLATAN, A DECEIVER, A LIAR.

The tragedy is you don't understand the implications of your own words. You do not realise that the evidence comes from your own pen!

 

[Exegesis]

#1 - Jerusalem ABOVE is not in the lowest parts of the earth.

Just out of curiosity, where do you say Abraham's Bosom is or was?

#2 - Revelation is CLEAR = Jerusalem on earth is the location of spiritual Sodom and Egypt

Verse?

#3 - The earth that contains the blood of the saints is worldwide...

You are contradicting yourself. How can the woman that contains the blood inside of her be both earth *and* Jerusalem at the same time?

Revelation 17:18 - "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."

You need to reconcile the verses, not just make a claim without any proof.

#4 - Therefore the Capital City of the earth is modern day Jerusalem/Israel.

The 'center of the world' eh?

Ezekiel 5:5 - The Sovereign LORD said, "Look at Jerusalem. I put her at the center of the world, with other countries all around her."

Anyhow, I made this thread to go into more detail if you are interested:

Our Heavenly Mother Has a Monthly Period...

Our Heavenly Mother, i.e., New Jerusalem: Galatians 4:26 - "But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all." Bares 'fruit' on a monthly cycle, aka... monthly period: Revelation 22:2 - "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Earburner]

The 2 witnesses are the Church and the Holy Spirit. The Candlesticks and olive trees. Witnesses before God on all the earth. That said, Revelation is over, we are waiting for Christ now. It's all done.

That could be, but I propose that according to scripture and by the Holy Spirit of God, the "two anointed ones" (Zech. 4:14), being John the Baptist (6 mos.) and Jesus (3.0 yrs.), were the Two Witnesses of Rev.

They were a joint ministry for 1260 days/42 mos.

 

[Deleted member 26788]

were the Two Witnesses of Rev.

Not even close

 

[PS95]

Not even close

Locust! How's my favorite JW?

 

[Rockerduck]

That could be, but I propose that according to scripture and by the Holy Spirit of God, the "two anointed ones" (Zech. 4:14), being John the Baptist (6 mos.) and Jesus (3.0 yrs.), were the Two Witnesses of Rev.

They were a joint ministry for 1260 days/42 mos.

I said "The 2 witnesses are the Church and the Holy Spirit. The Candlesticks and olive trees. Witnesses before God on all the earth. That said, Revelation is over, we are waiting for Christ now. It's all done."

In Revelation 1, Jesus has in His right hand 7 stars and and John saw 7 lampstands. Jesus says the lampstands are the churches. Revelation 11:4 says these (witnesses) are the two olive trees and two lampstands. Lampstands are churches. Olive trees produce olive oil, the anointing oil.
1 Samuel 16:13 -Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the Lord came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel arose and went to Ramah.

 

[William Barton]

IMO:
The two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) are Enoch and Elijah, neither of whom ever died (Genesis 5:24, 2Kings 2:11).

They will oversee the rebuilding of the Jewish temple, hence they are compared to Zerubbabel (governor) and Jeshua (high priest), who oversaw rebuilding of the Jewish temple in times past (Ezra 5:2).

Jesus similarly will supervise the future rebuilding of the temple after his return (Zechariah 6:12).

 

[quietthinker]

IMO:
The two witnesses (Revelation 11:3) are perhaps Enoch and Elijah, neither of whom ever died (Genesis 5:24, 2Kings 2:11). They apparently oversee the rebuilding of the Jewish temple.

They are compared to Zerubbabel (governor) and Jeshua (high priest), who likewise supervised the rebuilding of the Jewish temple in times past (Ezra 5:2).

Jesus similarly is prophet, priest, king, and he will supervise completion of the future rebuilding of the temple (Zechariah 6:12).

When Jesus said, 'destroy this temple and I will raise it in three days', as we know he was referring to the temple of his body.

The physical temple of bricks and mortar, its furnishings, the priests and the rituals associated where only ever shadows of which Jesus was the reality.

Hebrews 1:1-3 copied here reveals this......
'In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.'

Focusing on a physical Temple is missing the point in its entirety. This focus so prevalent within Christian circles is a clever decoy. It basically takes the focus off Jesus and the eternal and turns it to the corruptible, man made; just what the devil sets out to achieve.

 

[William Barton]

quiet thinker said:

<temple of his body>

IMO:

o The body is a temple, in the sense that, just as the Jewish temple houses the Presence of God, so likewise the human body houses the Spirit of God (1Corinthians 6:19-20).

o Jesus will rebuild the Jewish temple (Zechariah 6:12), hence Jesus apparently thinks the temple is appropriate.

o The two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah, both of whom never died.

o There is no temple in the new heavens and earth (Revelation 21:22).

 

[Mosheli]

Since so many believe that the Two Witnesses are still future, I will share another viewpoint that actually fits Scripture.​

​

A good verse to begin with is Revelation 12:1:​

​

​

​

The woman represents the carrier of the 'seed of the woman' that began in the Garden of Eden. In the context of Revelation 12:1, the woman carrying the seed at that particular moment in time was Sarah, who gives birth to Isaac. Similarly, the 'manchild' represents the carrier of Abraham's seed on the father's side.​

​

Years pass and now the seed of the woman, through genealogy of the Israelites, flees into the wilderness of the Exodus. For 1260 years, the seed is nourished until Jesus is born. The Tabernacle in the Wilderness begins the 1260 years:​

​

​

​

The 'place prepared' is the body of Jesus, i.e., the Tabernacle:​

​

​

​

Again, the Israelites took care of their Messiah, baby Jesus, for 1260 years. At the same time, the Two Witnesses begin to testify. From Moses to John the Baptist, the Two Witnesses testify for 1260 years until the birth of Jesus:​

​

​

​

All of the verses match up perfectly.​

​

Here is a basic timeline:​

• Woman on moon flees to the wilderness, i.e., the Exodus.
• Moses builds the Tabernacle in the Wilderness on day/year 1.
• The Seed of the Woman on moon is nourished for 1260 days/years until Jesus is born.
• At the same time, the Two Witnesses testify from Moses to John the Baptist for1260 days/years.
• Jesus is born on day/year 1260.
• Jesus begins ministry on day/year 1290, thirty years later.
• On day/year 1290, the Two Witnesses are killed. This would be the beginning of week 70.
• 3-1/2 days/years later, in the middle of the week, the Crucifixion takes place (Messiah is cut off).
• The Two Witnesses are raised. A great earthquake occurs.
• On day/year 1335, 45 years later, Jerusalem is destroyed.

And there you have it. The Two Witnesses already did their thing thousands of years ago.​

​

PS: To those of you who believe you are one of the Two Witnesses, I am sorry to tell you... it aint you kid.​

​

There are a few problems with this theory of the 2 witnesses. One is that the exodus is not 1260 years before Christ except in conventional chronology which is wrong. The bible implies that the exodus was 480 years before Solomon's temple of the 900s bc which gives a date for the exodus of ca 1400s bc. (Though I know there are debates about whether the 480 years is literal or not and how it fits with the 410 years of Judges.) Israel also was only in the Wilderness for 40 years not 1260 years. And if I remember right the Dragon pours out a flood (which some say is the Diaspora)? Also the 1260 days seems to be literal days since it matches the 42 months and 3 & a 1/2 times/years of other bible verses. I also didn't understand exactly who you were saying the 2 witnesses were in your post as you didn't seem to actually say who they were? (The Israelites? But if so how can Israel be both the woman or the manchild or seed and the 2 witnesses? Or did you mean Moses and John?) Certain other bits also don't seem to fit: The 2 witnesses also performed certain miracles like fire from their mouths and shutting up the rain clouds. The beast slays the 2 witnesses and the 2 witnesses bodies were left in view for the 3 days and raised in sight (though Matthew does say dead appeared after Jesus crucifixion). So I don't think the theory seems very possible as it doesn't seem to fit with what the bible says.​

 

[ewq1938]

​

There are a few problems with this theory of the 2 witnesses. One is that the exodus is not 1260 years before Christ except in conventional chronology which is wrong. The bible implies that the exodus was 480 years before Solomon's temple of the 900s bc which gives a date for the exodus of ca 1400s bc. (Though I know there are debates about whether the 480 years is literal or not and how it fits with the 410 years of Judges.) Israel also was only in the Wilderness for 40 years not 1260 years. And if I remember right the Dragon pours out a flood (which some say is the Diaspora)? Also the 1260 days seems to be literal days since it matches the 42 months and 3 & a 1/2 times/years of other bible verses. I also didn't understand exactly who you were saying the 2 witnesses were in your post as you didn't seem to actually say who they were? (The Israelites? But if so how can Israel be both the woman or the manchild or seed and the 2 witnesses? Or did you mean Moses and John?) Certain other bits also don't seem to fit: The 2 witnesses also performed certain miracles like fire from their mouths and shutting up the rain clouds. The beast slays the 2 witnesses and the 2 witnesses bodies were left in view for the 3 days and raised in sight (though Matthew does say dead appeared after Jesus crucifixion). So I don't think the theory seems very possible as it doesn't seem to fit with what the bible says.​

Many (most) don't even define the 2 witnesses correctly, often conflating the 2 prophets who die and lay in the street for 3.5 days with the 2 witnesses which the bible states are two candlesticks and two olive trees. The two prophets cannot be the whole of the 2 witnesses. I think it's clear they are PART of the 2W (the 2 olive trees) but they are not the candlesticks.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Many (most) don't even define the 2 witnesses correctly, often conflating the 2 prophets who die and lay in the street for 3.5 days with the 2 witnesses which the bible states are two candlesticks and two olive trees. The two prophets cannot be the whole of the 2 witnesses. I think it's clear they are PART of the 2W (the 2 olive trees) but they are not the candlesticks.

 

[William Barton]

​

There are a few problems with this theory of the 2 witnesses. One is that the exodus is not 1260 years before Christ except in conventional chronology which is wrong. The bible implies that the exodus was 480 years before Solomon's temple of the 900s bc which gives a date for the exodus of ca 1400s bc. (Though I know there are debates about whether the 480 years is literal or not and how it fits with the 410 years of Judges.) Israel also was only in the Wilderness for 40 years not 1260 years. And if I remember right the Dragon pours out a flood (which some say is the Diaspora)? Also the 1260 days seems to be literal days since it matches the 42 months and 3 & a 1/2 times/years of other bible verses. I also didn't understand exactly who you were saying the 2 witnesses were in your post as you didn't seem to actually say who they were? (The Israelites? But if so how can Israel be both the woman or the manchild or seed and the 2 witnesses? Or did you mean Moses and John?) Certain other bits also don't seem to fit: The 2 witnesses also performed certain miracles like fire from their mouths and shutting up the rain clouds. The beast slays the 2 witnesses and the 2 witnesses bodies were left in view for the 3 days and raised in sight (though Matthew does say dead appeared after Jesus crucifixion). So I don't think the theory seems very possible as it doesn't seem to fit with what the bible says.​

IMO:

In Revelation 11:2 "forty-two months" (Greek μηνας τεσσερακοντα δυο) is 42x30 = 1260 days, where a month is 30 days.

The end times comprise 7 years, where a year is 360 days. The midpoint is (1/2) x 7 = 3.5 years.

This is 3.5 years x 360 days per year = 1260 days.

 

[William Barton]

IMO:

"Two witnesses" are Enoch and Elijah, neither of whom ever died.

 

[Marty fox]

Since so many believe that the Two Witnesses are still future, I will share another viewpoint that actually fits Scripture.

A good verse to begin with is Revelation 12:1:



The woman represents the carrier of the 'seed of the woman' that began in the Garden of Eden. In the context of Revelation 12:1, the woman carrying the seed at that particular moment in time was Sarah, who gives birth to Isaac. Similarly, the 'manchild' represents the carrier of Abraham's seed on the father's side.

Years pass and now the seed of the woman, through genealogy of the Israelites, flees into the wilderness of the Exodus. For 1260 years, the seed is nourished until Jesus is born. The Tabernacle in the Wilderness begins the 1260 years:



The 'place prepared' is the body of Jesus, i.e., the Tabernacle:



Again, the Israelites took care of their Messiah, baby Jesus, for 1260 years. At the same time, the Two Witnesses begin to testify. From Moses to John the Baptist, the Two Witnesses testify for 1260 years until the birth of Jesus:



All of the verses match up perfectly.

Here is a basic timeline:

• Woman on moon flees to the wilderness, i.e., the Exodus.
• Moses builds the Tabernacle in the Wilderness on day/year 1.
• The Seed of the Woman on moon is nourished for 1260 days/years until Jesus is born.
• At the same time, the Two Witnesses testify from Moses to John the Baptist for1260 days/years.
• Jesus is born on day/year 1260.
• Jesus begins ministry on day/year 1290, thirty years later.
• On day/year 1290, the Two Witnesses are killed. This would be the beginning of week 70.
• 3-1/2 days/years later, in the middle of the week, the Crucifixion takes place (Messiah is cut off).
• The Two Witnesses are raised. A great earthquake occurs.
• On day/year 1335, 45 years later, Jerusalem is destroyed.

And there you have it. The Two Witnesses already did their thing thousands of years ago.

PS: To those of you who believe you are one of the Two Witnesses, I am sorry to tell you... it aint you kid.

I see the two witnesses as the Law and the Prophets that testified and pointed to Jesus

 

[William Barton]

​

There are a few problems with this theory of the 2 witnesses.​

IMO the two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah, who never died.

 

[Marty fox]

IMO the two witnesses are Enoch and Elijah, who never died.

Enoch and Elijah did die

Hebrews 9
27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Hebrews 11
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

Enoch was one of the people mentioned in Hebrews 11. Enoch had to die to receive the promise.

 

[William Barton]

Marty Fox noted:

<Enoch and Elijah did die>

The Bible says:
"By faith Enoch was translated, that he *might not see death.*" (Hebrews 11:5)

"...and Elijah *went up to heaven* in a whirlwind" (2Kings 2:11).

Yes, in general everyone dies, and the two witnesses will die at a time future to today (Revelation 11:7-10). But after three and a half days they will receive the fruits of resurrection (Revelation 11:11-13).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Marty Fox noted:
<Enoch and Elijah did die>

Bible noted:
"Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him" (Genesis 5:24)
"Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2Kings 2:11)

They did not ascend to the third heaven/paradise where Jesus is. So, if they didn't die, where are they?

John 3:13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

Jesus obviously said this well after what is described in the verses you quoted took place.

 

[Marty fox]

Marty Fox noted:
<Enoch and Elijah did die>

Bible noted:
"Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him" (Genesis 5:24)
"Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2Kings 2:11)

Its not what Marty said its what the bible said

Hebrews 9
27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

Hebrews 11
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.