Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[rebuilder 454]

Lol
Take a look at the 2 escape verses.( you wont)
Take a look at EVERY RAPTURE VERSE.( you wont)
They are all pretrib setting.
Lot delivered pretrib
Noah gathered pretrib.
The one taken/left behind pretrib setting.
The baby Jesus gathered and removed pretrib.
The virgin parable is pretrib setting WITH THE BRIDE TAKEN TO THE MARRIAGE CHAMBER.
Hello...you doctrine says at the rapture the church never goes to heaven, instead the church does a make believe uturn back to earth.

I got about 8 or 6 more, but you guys cast it all down to replace it with conjecture ....as you have pointed out.

You ain't gonna listen.

^^^^^^^^^^^^crickets^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nothing new
Verses on the table. They ain't going away.
None here can debate it.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Run for your lives.
Those postribs are from satan!!!!

Total joke.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

^^^^^^^^^^^^crickets^^^^^^^^^^^^

Nothing new

Your arguments have been addressed many times by post-tribbers on this forum and you know it, so why act otherwise? WPM is offering to debate you on all of those scriptures you're referencing (while you didn't exegete any of them). So, if you want to be taken seriously, you will accept his offer.

 

[David in NJ]

....and when called out.
You do it again.
We are Satan and serpents to your sick mind

Sick
Very very sick.

LOL
i never said that

The doctrine of pre-trib is from men = men who devalued the words of Christ for their pleasure

 

[WPM]

Run for your lives.
Those postribs are from satan!!!!

Total joke.

You have no answer to the truth; only avoidance and ad hominem.

 

[WPM]

Your arguments have been addressed many times by post-tribbers on this forum and you know it, so why act otherwise? WPM is offering to debate you on all of those scriptures you're referencing (while you didn't exegete any of them). So, if you want to be taken seriously, you will accept his offer.

He has nothing to bring to the table of biblical worth. That is why he is hiding.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He has nothing to bring to the table of biblical worth. That is why he is hiding.

Right. He does all this whining about people supposedly not being willing to address his arguments, but as soon as someone challenges him to a debate, he runs away.

 

[David in NJ]

Run for your lives.
Those postribs are from satan!!!!

Total joke.

Now i want you to look at your words here and notice something very important.

JESUS was direct, specific and commanded to us that HE is Coming after the tribulation.

That makes the LORD Jesus Christ a TRUE "Post-Tribber"

Now sit back and let that sink in deep within your heart.

 

[WPM]

Right. He does all this whining about people supposedly not being willing to address his arguments, but as soon as someone challenges him to a debate, he runs away.

What is he going to say? He doesn't even have one biblical proof text. Pretrib is an elaborate man-made lie. They cannot defend it. Like I predicted a year and a half ago: Pretrib is dead on these forums. It has been given a decant burial. This is more evidence.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What is he going to say? He doesn't even have one biblical proof text. Pretrib is an elaborate man-made lie. They cannot defend it. Like I predicted a year and a half ago: Pretrib is dead on these forums. It has been given a decant burial. This is more evidence.

The only thing he can say is what he has been saying today. Just making false accusations towards post-tribs and failing to do the thing he falsely accuses post-tribs of, which is addressing the scriptures. He doesn't address the scriptures at all. He gives chapters and verses of some scriptures and does not exegete one single verse. Pretrib is indeed dead and people like him prove that. When challenged to address post-trib arguments and to back up their claims with scripture, they back down every time.

 

[PinSeeker]

Nope. Unique in that everyone received the same spiritual gift of speaking in tongues at that time.

The apostles, yes, but that's beside the point. In post 548:

What you say is fair enough, but what I would say, particularly about Acts 1:5 is, Pentecost was a unique, once-for-all event in salvation history that inaugurated the New Covenant church.​

I would agree with that, but that does not mean the baptism of the Holy Spirit was something different then than it is still today. There is no basis for coming to that conclusion​

I'm not sure why you said "that does not mean..." and following, as that was sort of a non sequitur... I mean yeah, baptism of the Holy Spirit was not something different then than it is still today, but no matter. You agreed. And, now you're disagreeing, which is... kinda funny... and not worth talking about any further, really, because... well, yeah, bless your heart. <smile>

The following verse....

Acts 1:5 for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

...is not talking about a different baptism with the Holy Spirit than the following verse...

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

It is. Maybe it would help to understand what a baptism, generally speaking, is. But yeah, we disagree. Enough is enough.

... how can you not see that they were baptized with the Holy Spirit AFTER they believed?

Because Ezekiel 11:19-20, Ezekiel 36:26-27, Matthew 19:26, Mark 10:27, Luke 18:27, John 1:12-13, 6:37-40, 8:42-44, and 10:26, Romans 9:14-18, Ephesians 1:4-5 and 2:4-10, Philippians 1:6 and 2:13, and 1 Peter 1:3-5 all say the opposite is true.

Even regarding Acts 2:41... look at it: "So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls." Yeah, "those who received his word" is very, very important there. That is not all-inclusive... there were actually probably around 20,000 people there and they all heard his word, and from that we can know that there were at least some there (about 17,000, if the total is accurate, which it is) who did not receive his word. And... Paul, in Romans 10:17 again... faith comes by hearing... and belief, which is a work, comes after. Not 100% of the time, because not all who hear are elect, which brings us back to Acts 2:41 ~ not all of the approximately 20,000 there were elect, but only 3,000... possibly more who either received his word at some later point or heard from someone else and received that word then. This receiving has to do with the heart, not the brain. <smile> Individually speaking, we cannot change our heart. God, by the work and power of the Holy Spirit, is the only One Who can do that. And then, if our heart is changed ~ from stone to flesh, as God puts it in Ezekiel 11 and 36 ~ we will then, freely and willingly, change our mind. <smile>

Try this <chuckles>: One can receive something only when it is given. Football gives is a good illustration here:

• a kick returner can only receive a kickoff or a punt if the kicker/punter first kicks/punts the ball to him
• a running back can only receive a handoff from the quarterback if the quarterback gives it
• a receiver can only receive a pass if the quarterback first passes it...

<smile>

They clearly believed BEFORE being baptized with the Holy Spirit and placed into the body of Christ.

See above.

Being raised with Jesus refers to regeneration.

Absolutely. This is a rhetorical question, SI, but can you... did you... regenerate yourself? Yeah, 'no' is the answer to that... And you know that...

Notice here that Paul says that occurs "through faith in the working of God". That's personal trust in the working of God...

Ah, so something God did is really something we did...

, not "God's assurance". Faith is personal confidence and trust in God/Christ.

That's absolutely contrary to Hebrews 11:1. You had a problem with the word 'assurance' before, but other translations of Hebrews 11:1 are 'substance,' 'reality,' 'title deed,' 'certainty,' 'confirmation'... The point is that any of those things, really all of those things, are given to us by God. Otherwise, it is no assurance, substance, reality, title deed, certainty, or confirmation at all, but only something along the lines of wishful thinking.

I don't know what you're trying to say here.

Yes you do. <smile> You're not an idiot. Obstinate, but not an idiot. <smile>

Do you not think that someone becomes a child of God immediately upon being born of God?

I have said so many times.

what I will say now is the same thing you are accusing me of, which is that you're refuting scripture itself.

Fine. You're not only refuting Scripture, but refuting yourself, really. But... yeah, okay.

You are intellectually dishonest.

In the same vein that you say that, I say the same of you.

In no way, shape or form did I say that I make myself a child of God. God makes people children of God when they do what He requires...

No, they do "what He requires" once they are a His child. We could go all through Scripture on this, but this one thing is enough (or should be, anyway): "We love because He first loved us" (1 John 4:19). Well, I'll add what God says in Ezekiel 11:19-20 and 36:26-27, respectively, yet again:

• "I will give them one heart, and a new spirit I will put within them. I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My rules and obey them."
• "I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes and be careful to obey My rules."

And I'll point out what Luke says of many in Acts 13:48:

• "And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

Irrefutably, God is the first cause.

You act as if faith automatically results from hearing the gospel.

I do not. One's hearing of the Gospel does not necessarily result in his or her receiving it. As I said. He or she must have a heart of flesh to do this... But then... but only then... and inevitably then... <chuckles>

Faith is not given to people.

Not given to all people. <smile>

Yeah, enough. <chuckles>

Grace and peace to you, Spiritual Israelite. Really. Grace and peace. The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.

 

[WPM]

The only thing he can say is what he has been saying today. Just making false accusations towards post-tribs and failing to do the thing he falsely accuses post-tribs of, which is addressing the scriptures. He doesn't address the scriptures at all. He gives chapters and verses of some scriptures and does not exegete one single verse. Pretrib is indeed dead and people like him prove that. When challenged to address post-trib arguments and to back up their claims with scripture, they back down every time.

Agreed. They get that from Jack Van Imp. He would do that back in the day. But the texts he presented had nothing to do with what he was claiming.

 

[David in NJ]

The apostles, yes, but that's beside the point. In post 548:

Hey 'Chuckles', you must of swallowed your chicklets.

Go back and read Acts again, with prayer to the LORD asking Him to grant you understanding in the Holy Scriptures.

 

[amigo de christo]

Hey 'Chuckles', you must of swallowed your chicklets.

Go back and read Acts again, with prayer to the LORD asking Him to grant you understanding in the Holy Scriptures.

Contenders of the true faith , MOUNT UP with all armour on and strapped at the ready .
This war is about to peak .
Th roughout the ages persecutions and tribulations have b een . But the worst of it all will hit a peak hour .
Fear it not . Fear not man , fear not to suffer or even die . Be faithful unto death . he who loses his life in this world
the same shall save it .
A reminder .
The dragon sleeps not , his harlot sleeps not and the mystery of inquity , that which is of anti christ
WILL hit a peak . And they loved not their lives unto death . The cry and the call is being made
BE YE FAITHFUL unto the end . Now to the trenches my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

Hey 'Chuckles', you must of swallowed your chicklets.

Go back and read Acts again, with prayer to the LORD asking Him to grant you understanding in the Holy Scriptures.

The hour comes when those who betray us will truly believe they do the will of GOD . many now follow the inclusive god
and it will rage the largest crusades against the sheep who would not and did not conform to a lie .

 

[amigo de christo]

Hey 'Chuckles', you must of swallowed your chicklets.

Go back and read Acts again, with prayer to the LORD asking Him to grant you understanding in the Holy Scriptures.

The pr ophets of christendom have cried for years , great blessings are coming upon the this year
just sow a seed .
The prophets within the walls and halls of christendom have propheised a lie and prophesy of of a path to peace n saf ety .
The prophets , leaders , teachers and much of christendom
DO NOT SPEAK FOR THE LORD . They prophesy a dream of their own making .
And have no idea a lying spirit has been sent to gather them , their peoples and all false religoins
for a day in which they believe they shall attain peace on earth .
But it will not be peace for them ON the great and mighty DAY of GOD and of the LAMB .
IT will be only wrath and sudden destruction .
The evil has r isen and inquity has grown massive
and all these prophets do is prophesy just like the false ones did way back in the time of ISRAEL .
IT did not bode well for them , it did not bode well for all who sat under and heeded them .
AND IT WILL NOT for these of today , ON THE DAY of THE LORD GOD ALL MIGHTY and THE LAMB .
Any true prophet would not be speaking about b ig coming blessings , increases in riches ,
peace , WHEN THIS ENTIRE REALM has just about sold out .
THE TRUE ones would only be warning for men to repent , that the SWORD is coming and JUDGMENT
will come upon all who loved and made a lie .
The watchers on the wall are few , the false are many .
And soon the inclusive god will lead them to great war against CHRIST and the saints . In an hour
of the greatest tribulation that has ever been . Many will betray many . Father will betray children
and vice versa . Wives will betray husbands and v ice versa . HE who loves mother , father , son , daughter
wife or anything more than CHRIST is not worthy of HIM . We must be prepared in CHRIST
for what is and what is coming . THE MOTTO IS , FAITHFUL unto death . NO compromise .
LET CHRIST be glorified in our life and even in our death . NO fear of man or what he can do
FOR GOD is our helper . AMEN . count that cost .

 

[PinSeeker]

Hey 'Chuckles', you must of swallowed your chicklets.

Go back and read Acts again, with prayer to the LORD asking Him to grant you understanding in the Holy Scriptures.

Rrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight................ <smile> Right back atcha. I mean yeah, practice what you preach...

Grace and peace to you, David.

 

[David in NJ]

Rrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight................ <smile> Right back atcha. I mean yeah, practice what you preach...

Grace and peace to you, David.

Two FACTS for ya 'chuckles'

#1 - i DO practice reading the Holy Scriptures daily = for They are in my heart

#2 - Because i have received both the 1st and 2nd Promises of the FATHER = The Holy Spirit Preaches thru me

 

[PinSeeker]

Two FACTS for ya 'chuckles'

<chuckles> Yeah, let's hear 'em, Ironhead. <smile>

#1 - i DO practice reading the Holy Scriptures daily = for They are in my heart

Great! Me, too. So... how did they get there? How did the Word, inerrant and infallible as It is, get in your heart? <smile> Who softened your heart so that you would receive it (with meekness, as James [1:21] says)? And you might notice that it says... well, I'll quote it:

"Therefore put away all filthiness and rampant wickedness and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls" (James 1:21).​

Yes, implanted... by Whom? <smile> And then immediately after, James says in verse 22, "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." Good food for thought and self-reflection... And praise, of course.

#2 - Because i have received both the 1st and 2nd Promises of the FATHER = The Holy Spirit Preaches thru me

Hmmm... So yes, I would agree, but at least largely in a... different way... than you seem to suppose.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Now i want you to look at your words here and notice something very important.

JESUS was direct, specific and commanded to us that HE is Coming after the tribulation.

That makes the LORD Jesus Christ a TRUE "Post-Tribber"

Now sit back and let that sink in deep within your heart.

Just pretend Jesus did not point to the pretrib rapture DIRECTLY 4 SEPARATE TIMES.
SIT back in your make believe world and reject the 8 rapture verses, while clinging to your theory.
You will be "fine".