Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

[JimKnox]

I’m just curious, in your future millennial kingdom, will people be adding to the Bible? Every time Jesus speaks it would be the word of God, so if anyone holds a future literal millennial kingdom position it would seem they also should hold the position that the Bible isn’t complete yet.

Do you think the Bible is complete or can we add to it?

Your first question is absurd. John stated that if ALL the things Jesus began to say and do were written down, the whole world could not contain the books written.
Have you even read your Bible?
Secondly, the 1769 Cambridge edition of the AV1611 is complete, inerrant, pure, holy and is all we need for faith and practice. Therefore, it can not be added unto nor taken away from lest you be found a liar.

 

[Truth7t7]

It shows how we should understand Daniel 9:24. It's not a diversion at all. You need to learn how to interpret scripture with scripture.

Diversion Alert: (Thy People) (Thy Holy City)

You give complete disregard to the fact that Daniel 9:24 is speaking to a specific people and place on earth being saved by the already finished work on Calvary, it's not speaking to the world about Jesus Christ on Calvary, "Diversion"

The Remnant Elect Jew = (Thy People) Jerusalem = (Thy Holy City) Seen In Daniel 9:24 below

Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Are you not aware that Jews have been having their blinders removed since Paul's day? Why do you apply that only to the future? Read the following. This is Paul talking about those Israelites who were blinded in his time.

Romans 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! 13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them.

Paul indicated that the Israelites of his time who were blinded were not blinded permanently. He said the purpose of their blinding was so that salvation would go to the Gentiles, which, in turn, would make those blinded Israelites jealous and want to be saved as well. And then notice in verse 14 how Paul said he hoped to help lead some of those who were blinded in his time to salvation. So, Paul is not talking about only future things in Romans 11, but rather ongoing realities up until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in when Jesus returns. Since Paul's day, unbelieving, blinded Israelites have been getting saved and have been grafted into the cultivated olive tree along with Gentile believers (Romans 11:15-24).

Diversion Alert: You conveniently gave complete disregard to Romans 11:25-26 below "Why"?

It's speaking to Paul's present/future time, the blindness of the "Future" Remnant Jew will be removed when the "Future" fulness of the gentiles takes place in Jerusalem for 42 months, and it didnt take place in 70AD

Romans 11:25-26KJV
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months

Diversion Alert: You conveniently have given complete disregard to my claims of Daniel 9:27 seen below "Why"?

(EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION)

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future" (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[claninja]

Help me to understand what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that you believe what is described in Matthew 24:29 in relation to the sun, moon and stars is equivalent to what is described in Matthew 24:15-21? Isn't it your view that "the tribulation of those days" refers to what is described in Matthew 24:15-21? If so, Jesus said the signs in the sun, moon and stars occur AFTER the tribulation of those days, not as being the tribulation of those days itself. So, I'm not understanding why you would say that the cosmic signs and "the tribulation of those days" (assuming you believe the tribulation of those days describes the great tribulation of Matthew 24:15-21) are parallel.

I’m arguing against inconsistency, not necessarily my position. Let’s start with the revelation argument and work backward.

Chronologically, The trumpets are given to the angels AFTER the 7th seal is opened. However, Davidpt “interprets” that the trumpets are actually parallel to seals.

Are we on the same page here so far?

 

[PinSeeker]

I mean yeah, that's what you do... dismiss acknowledgment and basic logic ~ which you can't with any credibility actually do, by the way ~ just because it says both to you and about you what you don't want it to say. Just a senseless defense mechanism and some kind of attempt to save face. But so it is. Yeah, you got nothin.'

Jim Carrey... never liked his work. I mean I like comedies, for sure, but not when they're Just too silly.

Grace and peace.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Diversion Alert: (Thy People) (Thy Holy City)

You give complete disregard to the fact that Daniel 9:24 is speaking to a specific people and place on earth being saved by the already finished work on Calvary, it's not speaking to the world about Jesus Christ on Calvary, "Diversion"

The Remnant Elect Jew = (Thy People) Jerusalem = (Thy Holy City) Seen In Daniel 9:24 below

Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Diversion Alert: You conveniently gave complete disregard to Romans 11:25-26 below "Why"?

It's speaking to Paul's present/future time, the blindness of the "Future" Remnant Jew will be removed when the "Future" fulness of the gentiles takes place in Jerusalem for 42 months, and it didnt take place in 70AD

Romans 11:25-26KJV
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months

Diversion Alert: You conveniently have given complete disregard to my claims of Daniel 9:27 seen below "Why"?

(EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION)

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future" (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I mean yeah, that's what you do... dismiss acknowledgment and basic logic ~ which you can't with any credibility actually do, by the way ~ just because it says both to you and about you what you don't want it to say. Just a senseless defense mechanism and some kind of attempt to save face. But so it is. Yeah, you got nothin.'

Jim Carrey... never liked his work. I mean I like comedies, for sure, but not when they're Just too silly.

I suppose now you'll tell me your opinion of Martin Freeman, as if that is the point of my posting this. LOL. Keep the laughs coming.

 

[grafted branch]

Your first question is absurd. John stated that if ALL the things Jesus began to say and do were written down, the whole world could not contain the books written.
Have you even read your Bible?
Secondly, the 1769 Cambridge edition of the AV1611 is complete, inerrant, pure, holy and is all we need for faith and practice. Therefore, it can not be added unto nor taken away from lest you be found a liar.

It appears that based on John 21:25 you’re drawing the conclusion that some of things Jesus said weren’t important for faith and practice. The things He said that were important for faith and practice were written down and we have them (the 1769 Cambridge edition of the AV1611) and if anyone adds to or takes away from them they are a liar.

Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Many Premil place this passage as happening in the millennium. Do you think Jesus will be just strictly quoting from the 1769 Cambridge edition of the AV1611 when He teaches during the millennium and not giving any other information important for faith and practice?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It appears that based on John 21:25 you’re drawing the conclusion that some of things Jesus said weren’t important for faith and practice. The things He said that were important for faith and practice were written down and we have them (the 1769 Cambridge edition of the AV1611) and if anyone adds to or takes away from them they are a liar.

Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Many Premil place this passage as happening in the millennium. Do you think Jesus will be just strictly quoting from the 1769 Cambridge edition of the AV1611 when He teaches during the millennium and not giving any other information important for faith and practice?

This is actually a really good point. For us non-Premils, we see that verse as relating to the words of Jesus, as recorded in the New Testament gospels. But, Premils are forced to think that Jesus will be teaching people of His ways during the supposed future thousand years. But, why would He need to do that when His words are already recorded in scripture? Just because not all of His words are recorded in scripture doesn't mean there's anything missing there that people during a future thousand years would need to know and couldn't learn from what is recorded in the New Testament.

 

[grafted branch]

This is actually a really good point. For us non-Premils, we see that verse as relating to the words of Jesus, as recorded in the New Testament gospels. But, Premils are forced to think that Jesus will be teaching people of His ways during the supposed future thousand years. But, why would He need to do that when His words are already recorded in scripture? Just because not all of His words are recorded in scripture doesn't mean there's anything missing there that people during a future thousand years would need to know and couldn't learn from what is recorded in the New Testament.

I brought this up with another Premil and he told me there’s an Old Testament, New Testament, and there will be a Millennial Testament. I just shook my.

 

[JimKnox]

It appears that based on John 21:25 you’re drawing the conclusion that some of things Jesus said weren’t important for faith and practice. The things He said that were important for faith and practice were written down and we have them (the 1769 Cambridge edition of the AV1611) and if anyone adds to or takes away from them they are a liar.

Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Many Premil place this passage as happening in the millennium. Do you think Jesus will be just strictly quoting from the 1769 Cambridge edition of the AV1611 when He teaches during the millennium and not giving any other information important for faith and practice?

You have doubled down on the absurd.
1. I did not say nor imply that ANYTHING Jesus said or did is unimportant. That's on you. For the life of me I cannot understand why you would make that assumption unless it is from a depraved need to feel morally superior based on the conclusion of its implication.
2. Paragraph #2 of your reply is a distraction, is not applicable and therefore needs no rebuttal.
3. Again you resort to the absurd. What is your mission here?
4. Heb 11:1 explains what faith is and what it is for. During the Millenial Kingdom there will no longer be any need for faith since Jesus will be physically present with us. No need for faith in the Unseen nor for the Blessed Hope. Both will have been realized.
5. We will know even as we are known. The Redeemed will rule and reign with Christ. No need for a Bible.
6. I really do not believe you are actually THINKING about your questions.

 

[Truth7t7]

"Run" "Hide" "Diversion"

Diversion Alert: (Thy People) (Thy Holy City)

You give complete disregard to the fact that Daniel 9:24 is speaking to a future specific people and place on earth being saved by the already finished work on Calvary, it's not speaking to the world about Jesus Christ or Calvary, "Diversion"

The Remnant Elect Jew = (Thy People) Jerusalem = (Thy Holy City) Seen In Daniel 9:24 below

Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Diversion Alert: You conveniently gave complete disregard to Romans 11:25-26 below "Why"?

It's speaking about the blindness of the "Future" (Remnant Jew) being removed when the "Future" fulness of the gentiles takes place in Jerusalem for 42 months, and it didnt take place in 70AD

Romans 11:25-26KJV
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months

Diversion Alert: You conveniently have given complete disregard to my claims of Daniel 9:27 seen below "Why"?

(EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION)

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future" (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I brought this up with another Premil and he told me there’s an Old Testament, New Testament, and there will be a Millennial Testament. I just shook my.

Wow. Yeah, what can you say to that? It's so incredibly dumb and nonsensical, that there isn't much you can say in response to it. It reminds me of Mormonism and the Book of Mormon. Ugh.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

"Run" "Hide" "Diversion"

Diversion Alert: (Thy People) (Thy Holy City)

You give complete disregard to the fact that Daniel 9:24 is speaking to a future specific people and place on earth being saved by the already finished work on Calvary, it's not speaking to the world about Jesus Christ or Calvary, "Diversion"

The Remnant Elect Jew = (Thy People) Jerusalem = (Thy Holy City) Seen In Daniel 9:24 below

Daniel 9:24KJV
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Diversion Alert: You conveniently gave complete disregard to Romans 11:25-26 below "Why"?

It's speaking about the blindness of the "Future" (Remnant Jew) being removed when the "Future" fulness of the gentiles takes place in Jerusalem for 42 months, and it didnt take place in 70AD

Romans 11:25-26KJV
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months

Diversion Alert: You conveniently have given complete disregard to my claims of Daniel 9:27 seen below "Why"?

(EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION)

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future" (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

You are the one running and hiding from addressing my arguments, so stop your hypocrisy. You are a child incapable of debating like an adult. Instead of ever addressing anyone else's arguments you just repeat the same spiel over and over again. You are embarrassing. Give the phone or laptop back to your parents now and take a nap.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You have doubled down on the absurd.
1. I did not say nor imply that ANYTHING Jesus said or did is unimportant. That's on you. For the life of me I cannot understand why you would make that assumption unless it is from a depraved need to feel morally superior based on the conclusion of its implication.
2. Paragraph #2 of your reply is a distraction, is not applicable and therefore needs no rebuttal.
3. Again you resort to the absurd. What is your mission here?
4. Heb 11:1 explains what faith is and what it is for. During the Millenial Kingdom there will no longer be any need for faith since Jesus will be physically present with us. No need for faith in the Unseen nor for the Blessed Hope. Both will have been realized.
5. We will know even as we are known. The Redeemed will rule and reign with Christ. No need for a Bible.
6. I really do not believe you are actually THINKING about your questions.

How about actually addressing his point, which is a valid one, instead of whining like a little child? What do you think Jesus would need to teach people during the thousand years that isn't already recorded in the Bible?

 

[JimKnox]

How about actually addressing his point, which is a valid one, instead of whining like a little child? What do you think Jesus would need to teach people during the thousand years that isn't already recorded in the Bible?

Dear Clown Man:
Are you his buddy?
It seems you are infected with absurdity also.

Full Stop.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Dear Clown Man:
Are you his buddy?
It seems you are infected with absurdity also.

Full Stop.

Thanks for proving yet again that you have no ability to address anyone's arguments like an adult. You must have gotten here by mistake while searching for some other site that is intended for children.

 

[David in NJ]

Your first question is absurd. John stated that if ALL the things Jesus began to say and do were written down, the whole world could not contain the books written.
Have you even read your Bible?
Secondly, the 1769 Cambridge edition of the AV1611 is complete, inerrant, pure, holy and is all we need for faith and practice. Therefore, it can not be added unto nor taken away from lest you be found a liar.

Gospel, Apostles Letters and Revelation completed the Holy Scriptures.

Like you said previously = We are never to add or take away from God's Word = Proverbs 30:5-6

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

 

[JimKnox]

Thanks for proving yet again that you have no ability to address anyone's arguments like an adult. You must have gotten here by mistake while searching for some other site that is intended for children.

At least you are consistent.
I saw you acting this way to other people in this thread also.

 

[JimKnox]

Gospel, Apostles Letters and Revelation completed the Holy Scriptures.

Like you said previously = We are never to add or take away from God's Word = Proverbs 30:5-6

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

Yes, amen.

 

[Truth7t7]

You are the one running and hiding from addressing my arguments, so stop your hypocrisy. You are a child incapable of debating like an adult. Instead of ever addressing anyone else's arguments you just repeat the same spiel over and over again. You are embarrassing. Give the phone or laptop back to your parents now and take a nap.

Diversion Alert: You conveniently have given complete disregard to my claims of Daniel 9:27 seen below "Why"?

(EVEN UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION)

"Daniel's AOD Is Future" and the bad guy causing the Abomination and Desolation will be present on earth to the "Consummation" The Ultimate End

"Future" Events Unfulfilled

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

This "Future" evil figure (The Beast) will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

(The Future Consummation)

2 Peter 3:10KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel's AOD (Even Until The Consummation) "Future" (The End)

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.