Actually Jesus returns twice...

[Spiritual Israelite]

Those who are alive and remain are the christians who have not died and therefore will not be rejoining with their spirits coming with Jesus from heaven.

I didn't say otherwise. The souls and spirits of the dead in Christ obviously will be reunited with their resurrected, changed bodies. Obviously, those who are alive and remain don't need to reunite with the souls and spirits that will already be within them.

Will the spirits coming back with Jesus be riding white horses?

LOL. No. No one will be literally riding white horses when Jesus comes. Do you think everything written in the book of Revelation is literal?

 

[rebuilder 454]

What happened right after Noah and Lot were removed? Everyone else all were killed. Jesus said that is what will happen when He comes again (Matthew 24:37-39, Luke 17:26-30). You ignore that and think there will be mortal survivors when He comes. There will not.


No, you get it wrong when you say there will be unbelievers who are allowed to survive when Jesus comes. Many scriptures teach otherwise.

Tell it to the writer of the Bible.
Tell him he is wrong.
Rev 20
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Huh?
Decieve the nations that you say have no population?

Rev 20
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

What???
Now how did those nations have any mortals to decieve????
According to you, they were all killed

How did those mortals surround the saints when you say they were wiped out????

Re read carefully, then try not to condemn what is written

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Exactly.

Acts 1 says Jesus will return like He left. ..... 11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

In Rev 19 Jesus returns on a white horse...
In the 1 Thes 4:16-17 return there is no white horse.

As you correctly said....Jesus returns twice.

So, do you think that Jesus will be literally slaying people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth while riding on a literal flying white horse when He comes down from heaven?

 

[rockytopva]

Exactly.

Acts 1 says Jesus will return like He left. ..... 11 and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”

In Rev 19 Jesus returns on a white horse...
In the 1 Thes 4:16-17 return there is no white horse.

As you correctly said....Jesus returns twice.

I did not know we referenced the same passages until I looked at the OP. Also noting the second passage speaks of holiness.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. - Revelation 20:6

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus returns twice...

1. To meet up with us in the clouds
2. To return to earth to reign a thousand years

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. - Revelation 19:11

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

The white horse coming is AFTER the 7yr trib

The coming in Rev 14:14 is DURING THE TRIB.

The 3rd coming:...before the flood/trib
Mat 24
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Very vivid and precision.
The precision of God's word.
3 separate obvious comings.

 

[rebuilder 454]

I speak the truth from scripture and you call it trolling. You get upset when your false beliefs are thoroughly refuted by scripture and your only response is to accuse of trolling. You are completely incapable of supporting your false doctrine with scripture which is why your posts are full of claims that you don't back up with coherent arguments from scripture. Any person with eyes to see and ears to hear can see what a fraud you are.


LOL. How about you cry some more about us going personal while you call us "a pack of thugs". Yeah, that's not personal, right? Hypocrite. Yeah, put us on ignore so that you avoid the humiliation of not being able to respond with sound arguments using scripture. You know that you have no ability whatsoever to exegete scripture and provide coherent arguments, so you resort to whining about things getting personal while making personal insults.

Stop the cry baby mess.
What a joke.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Read 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17. The elect from heaven are the souls of the dead in Christ and the elect from earth are the resurrected dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain. This is not hard to understand.

Yes
The dead in christ without glorified bodies that are currently in heaven,come with Jesus at the pretrib rapture and are joined to their resurrected bodies .
He brings them with Him.
Ty for that pretrib dynamic.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is no 7 year tribulation. The Church is NOT in the ark 7 days before the flood.

There only remains 3.5 years in the 70th week of Daniel. Time, Times and half a time.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

1) nobody says he was in the ark 7 days before the flood...so no smoking gun there.
2) you left out Daniel 9:27.
( which says he rules for 7 yrs.)
3) the ac desecrates the temple IN THE MIDDLE of the 7yr covenant. ( 3.5 yrs into the 7 yr trib)

You see the corner you painted yourself into?
Are we to believe since we are halfway through the trib, that he is a secret AC , and the temple got DESCECRATED without our knowledge?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Tell it to the writer of the Bible.

Oh, look at this. So, I'm not on your ignore list, after all?

Tell him he is wrong.
Rev 20
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Are you going to tell Jesus and Peter that they are wrong when they indicate that the earth will be burned up and pass away when Jesus returns, resulting in the destruction of all unbelievers just like what happened with the flood in Noah's day when all unbelievers were killed?

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away. 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Jesus taught that He will come unexpectedly and that will result in heaven and earth passing away with all unbelievers being destroyed just as happened after Noah went onto the ark. Peter taught the same thing...

2 Peter 3:6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men......10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

What Peter said we should be looking for according to the promise of Christ's second coming is "new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells", but you look for an earthly millennial kingdom instead.

Huh?
Decieve the nations that you say have no population?

That's not what I say. What do you think you accomplish by misrepresenting my view? Are you doing it on purpose or do you just have no reading comprehension skills?

Rev 20
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

What???
Now how did those nations have any mortals to decieve????
According to you, they were all killed

LOL! Do you never tire of revealing your ignorance? You are completely misrepresenting my view. I believe that Revelation 20:9 relates to when Jesus returns "in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2 Thess 1:7-8) which is when "both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up" (2 Peter 3:10).

How did those mortals surround the saints when you say they were wiped out????

That's not what I say! LOL! How about making some effort to understand what I actually believe? Do you think you can do that? Then you can avoid making these strawman arguments.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes
The dead in christ without glorified bodies that are currently in heaven,come with Jesus at the pretrib rapture and are joined to their resurrected bodies .
He brings them with Him.
Ty for that pretrib dynamic.

You don't have to believe in the false pretrib rapture view in order to believe that the souls of the dead in Christ will be with Jesus and unite with their resurrected, changed bodies after the one and only time Jesus descends from heaven in the future "immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days" (Matthew 24:29-31).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Stop the cry baby mess.
What a joke.

Says the crybaby who whines about personal insults while calling people who oppose your false doctrine "a pack of thugs". LOL! What a hypocrite you are.

 

[rebuilder 454]

There is no 7 year tribulation. The Church is NOT in the ark 7 days before the flood.

There only remains 3.5 years in the 70th week of Daniel. Time, Times and half a time.

Daniel 12
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

You and I are about 100 miles apart on the 7 yr trib.
In one breath you deny it, then you claim half of the 7 yrs is past.
No sir it is definately 7 years as stated in Daniel and the TEMPLE IS DESCECRATED MIDWAY.
Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Rev 14
Hidden in plain sight.

Highly offensive.

 

[The Light]

1) nobody says he was in the ark 7 days before the flood...so no smoking gun there.

Why then do most mistakenly think that the Church is in heaven before the 7 years begins. No proof of that. But there is proof that Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood and Noah is a shadow of the rapture of the Church. Lot is a shadow of the rapture of the Jews.

2) you left out Daniel 9:27.
( which says he rules for 7 yrs.)

My Bible says he rules for 42 months. Please provide Biblical proof that he rules for 7 years.

Revelation 13
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

What translation do you use? I use KJV and this says that he will confirm a covenant with many for one week. Nowhere does it say that he rules for 7 years.

FACT: He confirms a 7 year covenant with many. He can confirm this 7 year covenant 1 year after the covenant is made.........or 2 years etc. It just needs to be confirmed before the middle of the week because that is when the AOD is set up.

3) the ac desecrates the temple IN THE MIDDLE of the 7yr covenant. ( 3.5 yrs into the 7 yr trib)

There is no 7 year tribulation. There is a 7 year covenant with many that begins the final week.

There is only 3.5 years remaining in the 70th week of Daniel as I have shown before. From the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to Messiah the prince is 69 weeks of 7. Messiah is cut off in the middle of the 70th week. That leaves 3.5 year for the time of Jacobs trouble. This is scriptural FACT.

Daniel 12
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

 

[CrowCross]

I didn't say otherwise. The souls and spirits of the dead in Christ obviously will be reunited with their resurrected, changed bodies. Obviously, those who are alive and remain don't need to reunite with the souls and spirits that will already be within them.

I agree...the dead who have died will be resurrected with their spirits returning with Jesus...then...those christians who haven't died will be caught up in the clouds.

LOL. No. No one will be literally riding white horses when Jesus comes. Do you think everything written in the book of Revelation is literal?

No everything isn't literal...still, Jesus didn't leave in the way described in Rev 19 whether it be symbolic or literal.

 

[CrowCross]

So, do you think that Jesus will be literally slaying people with a literal sword coming out of His mouth while riding on a literal flying white horse when He comes down from heaven?

Whether it is literal or not Jesus didn't leave in the same way He is depicted as arriving in Rev 19.

 

[CrowCross]

Why then do most mistakenly think that the Church is in heaven before the 7 years begins. No proof of that. But there is proof that Noah is not in the ark 7 days before the flood and Noah is a shadow of the rapture of the Church. Lot is a shadow of the rapture of the Jews.

Jesus associates the time of His return when speaking of Noah and Lot as a time when people will be marring, eating and drinking, planting, buying and selling...which isn't the description of the worlds "good time" environment at the end of the tribulation. This STRONGLY suggest a pre-trib thief in the night pre-trib return of Jesus

 

[The Light]

You and I are about 100 miles apart on the 7 yr trib.

We can easily prove that there is no 7 year tribulation because the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal is opened and the ONE YEAR wrath of God begins.

The great tribulation is when the dragon is trying to kill believers who will be mostly Jews. There is a rapture of the 12 tribes at the 6th seal.
The wrath of God is when God punishes unbelievers.

This is not hard to understand. The 6th seal rapture is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. It is seen here.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The rapture of the 12 tribes that occurs at the 6th seal is also seen here.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

In one breath you deny it, then you claim half of the 7 yrs is past.

There is a 7 year period the begins the final week when a covenant with many is made. The antichrist does not have to confirm the covenant when it is made.

No sir it is definately 7 years as stated in Daniel and the TEMPLE IS DESCECRATED MIDWAY.
Daniel 9
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Nothing this verse show a 7 year tribulation. Nothing in this verse shows that the antichrist rules for 7 years. That's because he doesn't. He rules for 42 months.

 

[CrowCross]

There is no 7 year tribulation. There is a 7 year covenant with many that begins the final week.

Can you speculate on the dates of the 4 horsemen?
Rev 6 sounds like those tribulations are early on.

 

[CrowCross]

We can easily prove that there is no 7 year tribulation because the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal is opened and the ONE YEAR wrath of God begins.

The total time of the tribulation is 7 years...the great tribulation is the last 3 1/2 years of the 7 year long tribulation.