No it doesn’t. Where do you see anything about an antichrist in Daniel 9? The prince that was to come was a person, the person responsible for leveling Jerusalem for killing their Messiah.
A Biblical Lesson on Spiritual Discernment
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I went through the first two posts in the beginning of your thread, and from what I can see, this is not a study on spiritual discernment but rather a defense of a particular hermeneutical method (how the Bible should be interpreted). You argue that many passages that most Christians understand as having both a literal historical meaning and a spiritual significance should instead be interpreted almost entirely symbolically.
There are some things I agree on and others where I think you go well beyond what scripture itself allows.
Here are several biblical truths you expounded on: Spiritual understanding comes from the Holy Spirit 1 Corinthians 2:14. The Old Testament contains types and shadows that point to Christ. Jesus often explained the deeper spiritual meaning of Scripture. Believers are described as living stones 1 Peter 2:5. Jerusalem, the Temple, and Israel can at times represent God's covenant people. Scripture should interpret Scripture.
These are all sound biblical principles.
Then there are these, in which I would begin exercising discernment.
Jesus really did die; he also fulfilled the role of the Passover Lamb. Jerusalem was literally judged.
That judgment also carried spiritual meaning. The Temple was literally destroyed in AD 70. Yet believers are also God's spiritual temple. These are not either/or. They are often both.
The people literally died. That historical judgment also illustrated spiritual judgment.
One does not cancel the other.
Scripture tells us that we are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).
A person may disagree with another's interpretation without implying that the other lacks the Holy Spirit.
Disagreement does not automatically mean one side is spiritually blind.
They should not become doctrine.
You appear to begin with this assumption:
Everything physical points to something spiritual; therefore, the physical meaning is usually not God's primary meaning. That is not actually the hermeneutic Jesus or the apostles consistently used.
For example, Jesus literally rose from the dead; that literal resurrection also has spiritual implications. The two are inseparable.
Likewise, Israel existed. Jerusalem existed. The temple existed. These historical realities also teach spiritual truths.
The New Testament doesn't erase the historical meaning; it often deepens it.
The approach you have taken has existed throughout church history, but it can become problematic when it consistently overrides the plain historical meaning of the biblical text.
However, true spiritual discernment is shown not only by insight into Scripture but also by humility James 3:13–18. A person may have genuine insight into biblical symbolism while still overextending that symbolism or speaking too dismissively of fellow believers. That combination is something worth discerning carefully…
There are some things I agree on and others where I think you go well beyond what scripture itself allows.
Here are several biblical truths you expounded on: Spiritual understanding comes from the Holy Spirit 1 Corinthians 2:14. The Old Testament contains types and shadows that point to Christ. Jesus often explained the deeper spiritual meaning of Scripture. Believers are described as living stones 1 Peter 2:5. Jerusalem, the Temple, and Israel can at times represent God's covenant people. Scripture should interpret Scripture.
These are all sound biblical principles.
Then there are these, in which I would begin exercising discernment.
You repeatedly set the spiritual against the literal.
The Bible does not do this. Biblical prophecy often has a literal historical fulfillment while also having spiritual significance.Jesus really did die; he also fulfilled the role of the Passover Lamb. Jerusalem was literally judged.
That judgment also carried spiritual meaning. The Temple was literally destroyed in AD 70. Yet believers are also God's spiritual temple. These are not either/or. They are often both.
Your assuming that almost everything is symbolic.
For example, you write that Christ was not talking about literal Jerusalem but only about the spiritual congregation. Yet Jesus actually wept over the physical city. Luke 19 predicts events that historically happened. The Romans literally surrounded Jerusalem. The city literally fell.The people literally died. That historical judgment also illustrated spiritual judgment.
One does not cancel the other.
You dismiss other believers as lacking spiritual discernment.
Throughout your posts you have said things like they cannot discern, they are spiritually blind, they are indoctrinated, they only see literally, and they fall back on paradoxesScripture tells us that we are to speak the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15).
A person may disagree with another's interpretation without implying that the other lacks the Holy Spirit.
You equate disagreement with spiritual blindness.
Many faithful Christians throughout history have disagreed over the following: Revelation, prophecy, Israel, the millennium, AD 70, symbolismDisagreement does not automatically mean one side is spiritually blind.
You are building a doctrine on illustrations.
Take Mark 8. The healing of the blind man is primarily about Jesus healing blindness. It certainly illustrates spiritual blindness. But to make "men as trees" become the controlling key for interpreting revelation stretches the passage beyond its purpose. Illustrations should support doctrine.They should not become doctrine.
You appear to begin with this assumption:
Everything physical points to something spiritual; therefore, the physical meaning is usually not God's primary meaning. That is not actually the hermeneutic Jesus or the apostles consistently used.
For example, Jesus literally rose from the dead; that literal resurrection also has spiritual implications. The two are inseparable.
Likewise, Israel existed. Jerusalem existed. The temple existed. These historical realities also teach spiritual truths.
The New Testament doesn't erase the historical meaning; it often deepens it.
The approach you have taken has existed throughout church history, but it can become problematic when it consistently overrides the plain historical meaning of the biblical text.
However, true spiritual discernment is shown not only by insight into Scripture but also by humility James 3:13–18. A person may have genuine insight into biblical symbolism while still overextending that symbolism or speaking too dismissively of fellow believers. That combination is something worth discerning carefully…
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You're turning a verse about Jesus Christ into a verse about some imaginary future Antichrist instead! Worst interpretation of scripture ever! Jesus Christ is the One who confirmed the new covenant and made the old covenant and its animal sacrifices obsolete (Hebrews 8-10). That is what Daniel 9:27 is about. Why would you not think there would be any Old Testament scriptures about Christ's sacrifice of the new covenant and the ending of the old covenant?
LOL. You have quite a flair for the dramatic, but you are very, very wrong about this.
This shows how you are twisting the text. It says the PEOPLE of the prince would destroy the city and the sanctuary, not the prince. You are being reckless with the scripture text.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
The Scriptures are not divided as many erroneous think
Those who err rely on human intellect
Genesis begins the revealing of Truth
Genesis = Satan is the Spirit of Antichrist who spoke to Eve in the Garden
Gospel = And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.
Apostles = Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Revelation = another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth.
You're misquoting. It's "the people of the prince that shall come".
Messiah is that prince also. He came several hundred years after Daniel wrote.
One prince.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Zero misquotes = "the prince of the people" = abbreviated
Messiah is NOT "the prince of the people that shall come"
Nowhere in the Bible is the serpent identified as “The Antichrist”. In fact nowhere in the Bible is “The Antichrist” mentioned. The only reference to antichrist is the spirit of antichrist defined as anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
It does not say "the prince of the people", so why are you acting as if it does? It says "the people of the prince that shall come". The prince that shall come had previously been identified as Messiah the prince and He came exactly when the prophecy said He would right after the end of the 69th week and then He was cut off in the midst of the 70th week and He confirmed the new covenant at that time and made the old covenant sacrifices and offerings obsolete.
Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Can you see that this doesn't say "the prince of the people that shall come"? Please stop quoting it as if it does.
Are you saying that the “prince that shall come” is Jesus? I hope not because that would be saying that Christian’s (the people of Jesus) would be the ones to destroy the city and the sanctuary.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
Satan is the spirit that rules all spirits of rebellion = Revelation 12
behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads.
His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
"the people of the prince who is to come" = "the prince of the people that shall come"
SAME
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
KJV says: "the prince of the people that shall come"
my oops = misquoted = YES = but it did change the meaning of scripture
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
the prince of the people to come IS ANOTHER . Correct its not the messiah at all .
We got a serious and urgent problem my friend .
Many cannot see that satan is working through the men of this world .
And he is doing so by using the govts and churches and yes the false religoins too .
THIS PEOPLE dont realize we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in high places .
THAT IN FACT its satan leading them .
HE uses the right hand to create the chaos and problems , then uses the left to bring in the solution , HIS SOLUTION .
And he will use any tatic aviable , fear , lust , convinence , the lusts of the flesh .
These spirits are not of GOD . though many now see this solution , this means to bring peace
this means as though it bE OF GOD . no sir , IT IS OF THE DEVIL .
HE knows how to distract , HE knows how to decieve and he will use the flesh of man , his own carnal ways
TO SEDUCE MAN .
ONLY the sheep can resist him by our FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
OH but how the devil has sold them all a lie and said HEY all religoins are serving the same GOD in diferent ways
and let us just be one for world peace and find common ground .
AND THEY THINK THIS PEACE PLAN IS OF GOD . HECK NO , IT CALLS GOD A LIAR . IT DENIES HIS TESTMONY
of JESUS and the DIRE NEED TO BLEIEVE ON JESUS .
AND THEY think its love , and they think its of GOD and they think its his plan for world peace . NO SIR ITS THE DEVIL
its the mystery of inquity , that which is of anti christ .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
BINGO my freind . ANY SPIRIT that denies JESUS is the CHRIST , the SON O F GOD
THAT IS THAT WHICH IS OF ANTI CHRIST.
ANYONE who says there is NO NEED to BELIEVE ON JESUS , IS CALLING GOD A LIAR .
OH i bet they dont know that either david .
BUT JOHN DID . HE who believes NOT the testimony that GOD gave of the SON is calling GOD A LIAR .
This people is being fleeced and falling in love with a lie . THEY now think even mu slims , jews and christains
and yes even other religoins are serving the SAME GOD .
TALK about CALLING GOD A LIAR . none of them CONSIDERS JESUS THE CHRIST THE SON OF GOD .
And at most they preach another jesus . a prophet , one that IS NOT GOD , one that
at most serves MUHAMED . so much for the muslims . And as for the jews .
EVEN THEY CALL GOD A LIAR if they reject HIS CHRIST .
HERE IS THE ONLY ONE TRUE PEOPLE OF GOD . READY ..............THOSE WHOSE FAITH BE IN JESUS CHRIST .
THEY ARE THE TRUE CHILDREN OF GOD . all else is in darkness , all else is a lie .
AND we sheep dont buy or love a lie , DO WE DAVID . NO SIR . WE BUY THE TRUTH and WE SELL HER NOT .
AND EVERY WORD OF GOD IS TRUTH and is our meat . I fear big time for this generation , they seem to love
and embrace a lie . Now if one loves a lie , and satan is the father of lies , WHO YA THINK THEY SERVE and LOVE .
satan . BUT SHEEP LOVE THE TRUTH , GOD IS TRUTH , JESUS IS TRUTH , THE SPIRIT IS TRUTH
and HIS WORDS ARE TRUTH . and the sheep KNOW THIS .
Truth7t7
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You give complete disregard to the simple scripture that was presented before your eyes as you divert away from Daniel 8:9-11 below "Why"?
Daniel 8:9-11 clearly shows "The Little Horn" being the "He" "Him" and by "Him" the daily sacrifice is stopped, and the sanctuary/temple is destroyed
Daniel 9:26-27 states "By Him" was the daily sacrifice taken away, the very same event in a parallel teaching as seen in Daniel 8:11
The "He" in Daniel 9:27 is the very same "He" in Daniel 8:11, and the "He" that stops the daily sacrifice is Daniel's (Little Horn) as seen in Daniel 8:9 below
The scripture presented is simple and explained in detail, will you continue to claim that the "He" in Daniel 9:27 is Jesus Christ, When it's clearly presented before your eyes that the "He" is Daniel's "Little Horn"?
Daniel 8:9-11KJV
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
Daniel 9:26-27KJV
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free.
Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
ALL who love TRUTH/CHRIST/FATHER/HOLY SPIRIT love FREEDOM
Slavery is believing a lie.
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