Free Will

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Dan Clarkston

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In a few threads I’ve read I have noticed that a few folk on here have been falsely taught that mankind has no free will and so they use their free will that God gave them and decided to believe that. Oh the irony :rolleyes:

They are mistaken (WRONG). If they accepted what God says in His Word they would know that we are created in God’s Image and as such we have free will just like the Lord does. To say one does not have free will is to say God did not actually make man in His Image which is accusing God of not telling the Truth which is how we know the false doctrine of man not having free will came from the devil.

Here’s a passage they cannot explain away, and when they try to deceive others in to believing this passage is a lie the devil somehow snuck in to God’s Word when Jesus wasn’t looking (or some other goofy excuse) then we know right up front that they have been ensnared by the enemy in to being in opposition to what the Lord says in His Word.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Notice this passage is clearly saying “to whom YOU obey” indicating very clearly that we are the ones deciding to either walk in sin and be separated from the Lord, or to walk in obedience to the Lord and remain in right standing with the Lord.

This is very simple, straight forward, and easy to understand and yet they refuse to accept the plain reading of scripture.
 
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LoveYeshua

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I agree with you Dan Clarkston. There are plenty of verses that clearly indicate we have free will and have to make choices here are a few of them;

The Bible begins by showing that God created mankind with the ability to obey or disobey. Throughout the Old Testament, God repeatedly calls people to choose whether they will follow Him.

Genesis 2:16-17​

And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

God gave Adam a command. A command only has meaning if there is a real choice to obey or disobey.


Deuteronomy 11:26-28​

"Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you today; and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known."

God places two paths before Israel. Their response determines whether they receive blessing or curse.


Deuteronomy 30:15-20​

"See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.

"But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.

"I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; that you may love the LORD your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."


This is one of the strongest statements in Scripture that God places a genuine choice before mankind.


Joshua 24:14-15​

"Now therefore, fear the LORD, serve Him in sincerity and in truth, and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the River and in Egypt. Serve the LORD!

"And if it seems evil to you to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."


Joshua does not tell Israel that God has already made the choice for them. He tells them to choose.


1 Kings 18:21​

And Elijah came to all the people, and said, "How long will you falter between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him." But the people answered him not a word.

Elijah calls the people to decide whom they will follow.


Isaiah 1:18-20​

"Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool.

"If you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword"; For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.


God clearly presents two possible responses: willingness and obedience, or refusal and rebellion.


Ezekiel 18:30-32​

"Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways," says the Lord GOD. "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin.

"Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel?

"For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies," says the Lord GOD. "Therefore turn and live!"


God pleads with His people to repent because He desires them to live.


Proverbs 1:29-31​

"Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD, They would have none of my counsel And despised my every rebuke. Therefore they shall eat the fruit of their own way, And be filled to the full with their own fancies."

They are judged because they did not choose the fear of the Lord.


Ecclesiastes 12:13-14​

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil.

Judgment assumes that every person is responsible for the choices he has made.

ill provide verses from the new testament in another post.

Blessings
 
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LoveYeshua

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La suite...

The words of Jesus consistently call people to make a decision. He invites, commands, warns, and pleads with people to respond to God. These invitations would have no meaning if people had no real choice. these verses are from the KJV.


Matthew 4:17​

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Jesus' first public message was a command to repent. Repentance is something He calls every person to do.


Matthew 7:13-14​

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.


Jesus commands people to enter the narrow gate. The command assumes they are responsible for the choice they make.


Matthew 11:28-30​

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.


The invitation is open to all who are willing to come.


Matthew 16:24-26​

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


Jesus says, "If any man will come after me..." The invitation is given to every person.


Matthew 19:16-17​

And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Jesus places the decision before the man: "If thou wilt enter into life..."


Matthew 22:1-14​

And Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said,

The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.

But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:

And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.

But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.

Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.

So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:

And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

For many are called, but few are chosen.


Everyone invited made a choice. Some refused the invitation, some accepted it, and one accepted but refused to prepare himself properly.


Matthew 23:37​

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

This is one of the clearest verses against the idea that people cannot resist God's call. Jesus desired to gather them, but they were unwilling.


John 5:39-40​

Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.


Jesus does not say they could not come. He says they would not come.


John 6:35​

And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

The promise is given to the one who comes and believes.


John 7:17​

If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

A person's willingness to obey opens the way to understanding God's truth.


John 8:31-32​

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


Jesus calls believers to continue in His word. Remaining faithful is presented as a choice.


John 12:46-48​

I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.


Jesus speaks of those who believe and those who reject His words. Both responses are treated as real choices for which people are accountable.


John 15:4-6​

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.


Jesus repeatedly commands His disciples to abide in Him. The warning only has meaning if remaining or departing is a real possibility.


Revelation 3:20​

Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Jesus knocks, but each person must choose whether to open the door.


Revelation 22:17​

And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

The Bible closes with one of the greatest invitations ever given. The water of life is offered freely to "whosoever will."


Taken together, the words of Jesus consistently reveal that God calls all people to respond. He commands them to repent, enter, come, believe, continue, abide, follow, and keep His commandments. He also warns that people can refuse, reject, or turn away. These repeated invitations and warnings show that every person is responsible before God for the choice they make.

Blessings Dan Clarkston.
 
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LoveYeshua

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there are more verses from other writers from the Bible, I can provide, just let me know.

Cheers
 

PinSeeker

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In a few threads I’ve read I have noticed that a few folk on here have been falsely taught that mankind has no free will and so they use their free will that God gave them and decided to believe that.
Wait a minute… are you actually saying that they’ve said they don’t have free will, so they use their free will? I mean… uh… Yeah that’s a head-scratcher… <chuckles>

I really don’t think anyone on here is saying man does not have free will. I mean to say that would be essentially to say man can’t think or make decisions, which is quite ridiculous. John Calvin certainly didn’t say or write or teach that, and no Calvinist (yes, I’m a Calvinist… and Augustinian ~ Augustine lived more than a thousand years prior) before Calvin.

The issue is NOT THE WILL, much less whether it is free or not (of course it is) BUT THE HEART. If the heart is left in its natural state… from birth, which is because of Adam’s sin (Romans 5:12)… man will always use his (very free) will naturally. (as opposed to supernaturally). To put it in what should be more familiar New Testament terms, if man is not born again of the Spirit, he will remain dead in his sin and thus will not choose according to the Spirit… because he is not of God and cannot see the Kingdom of God. He will continue to, as Paul says in Ephesians 2:1-3, follow the course of this world, continue to follow the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience, and will continue to carry out the desires of the flesh and the mind. Thus, he will remain a child of wrath.

Here’s a passage they cannot explain away, and when they try to deceive others in to believing this passage is a lie the devil somehow snuck in to God’s Word when Jesus wasn’t looking…
<chuckles>

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Notice this passage is clearly saying “to whom YOU obey” indicating very clearly that we are the ones deciding to either walk in sin and be separated from the Lord, or to walk in obedience to the Lord and remain in right standing with the Lord.
Agreed, but see above. The question… Dan… is, with regard to obedience, who… or Who… do we obey, and why? At any given moment, regarding unrighteousness or righteousness, why is our ~ again, very free ~ will toward unrighteousness or toward righteousness? It is because… Dan… his ~ again, very free ~ will is to do, if he is not born again of the Spirit and thus a child of God, the will of his father the devil. And this is what Jesus says in different ways in John 6, 8, and 10…

John 6:37 ~ “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.”

John 8:42-47 ~ “Jesus said to them, ‘If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of My own accord, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.’”

John 10:24-30:
So the Jews gathered around Him and said to Him, ‘How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.’ Jesus answered them, ‘I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name bear witness about Me, but you do not believe because you are not among My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.’”

There is nothing in these or any like passage in the Bible that says man’s will is not free or that man does not have free will. For anyone to say man does not have free will, Calvinist or otherwise, is ridiculous… ludicrous, really. What Calvin, and thus Calvinists, say is WHAT JESUS SAID, which is that if one is not born again of the Spirit, he cannot see the Kingdom of God, which is exactly what He told Nicodemus in John 3:3. If man is not born again, he has not been given to Jesus by the Father and thus is not one of His sheep and does not hear His voice and follow Him. And this is not because his will is not free, but that his will ~ BECAUSE OF THE STATE OF HIS HEART, BECAUSE HE IS OF HIS FATHER THE DEVIL ~ is to do the will of his father the devil.

This is very simple, straight forward, and easy to understand…
Well, yeah, it is. Why folks continue to miss the entire issue ~ the heart, not the will ~ is… astounding.

Grace and peace to you.
 

Behold

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or to walk in obedience to the Lord and remain in right standing with the Lord.

'right standing" with God is based on The Shed Blood and Death of Jesus, as this is all that God offers a sinner whereby they may be esteemed "justified by faith".

This is not something you can do for yourself., its only something that you receive from God as : "The Gift of Salvation".
 
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ScottA

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The rub on this issue exists because some see freewill occurring before the foundation of the world and the matter is then simply in the hands of God, while others see that freewill occurs during our time in the world..in the valley of decision as it were.

But the valley of decision is given in the scriptures also referred to as the valley of Jehoshaphat, meaning "God has judged"--past tense.

But neither means there is no freewill. Actually, the combination of "decision" and "has (judged)" means both are true--well kinda: We have freewill, but we decided "before." Which is to say, "in the twinkling of an eye" "before the world was" we had freewill and God judged us for it--and this--this is just us walking it out revealing the man of sin like the reading of the verdict, first in the inner court, then the outer of the gentiles.
 

Bombastic

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I am a 5-point Calvinist (those 5 doctrines in response to Arminianism are not the only doctrines in Reformed Protestantism). I read the previous posts. I ask first anybody here to define what they mean by "free will." And I with the most conviction charge anybody less than a 5-point Calvinist is no Calvinist at all.

Anybody that claims man can will himself freely from his depraved nature born in Adam is a Pelagian. Am I right to assume everybody in this thread is a naturalist (secularist) or Roman Catholic?

Again, I ask, what does free will mean to you? Yes, I see in scripture free will offerings. How is that defined? Not under the compulsion of law? Yes, that's true (in the context of tithes or law), but is anybody born in Adam free of their sin nature? Do tell. Let somebody pound their chest and roar on about their strength inside them apart from the monergistic works of G-d alone.

Theology class is about to adjourn.
 
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Dan Clarkston

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I am a 5-point Calvinist

If you get sincere with the Lord He can delivery you from those 5 deceptions and show you why they aren't biblical.
The Lord has never led anybody to become a calvinist because they would have to twist scripture and ignore other scripture in order to agree with calvinism.

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Ephesians 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.


those 5 doctrines in response to Arminianism are not the only doctrines in Reformed Protestantism

I know, the calvinists have a rather large portfolio of false doctrine


And I with the most conviction charge anybody less than a 5-point Calvinist is no Calvinist at all.

You mean like a little calvinist on calvinist persecution on those not calvinist enough?


Again, I ask, what does free will mean to you?

Why not address why Romans 6:16 is a lie to the dark calvinist mind?

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Notice this passage is clearly saying “to whom YOU obey” indicating very clearly that we are the ones deciding to either walk in sin and be separated from the Lord, or to walk in obedience to the Lord and remain in right standing with the Lord.

This is very simple, straight forward, and easy to understand and yet they refuse to accept the plain reading of scripture


....works of G-d alone.

It's OK man, you can go ahead and type out God and the Lord won't strike you down or anything.


Theology class is about to adjourn.

Yeah, we know. The enemy is about to try and convince people to stop following the Word of God and instead start following vain words, philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
 

ScottA

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I am a 5-point Calvinist (those 5 doctrines in response to Arminianism are not the only doctrines in Reformed Protestantism). I read the previous posts. I ask first anybody here to define what they mean by "free will." And I with the most conviction charge anybody less than a 5-point Calvinist is no Calvinist at all.

Anybody that claims man can will himself freely from his depraved nature born in Adam is a Pelagian. Am I right to assume everybody in this thread is a naturalist (secularist) or Roman Catholic?

Again, I ask, what does free will mean to you? Yes, I see in scripture free will offerings. How is that defined? Not under the compulsion of law? Yes, that's true (in the context of tithes or law), but is anybody born in Adam free of their sin nature? Do tell. Let somebody pound their chest and roar on about their strength inside them apart from the monergistic works of G-d alone.

Theology class is about to adjourn.
I hold to no 'ism.

Freewill means that God has given us over to our own will. Just as He is "I AM", so shall we all also be what we are. That's it.
 

Dan Clarkston

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Freewill means that God has given us over to our own will.

Actually God created us in His Image. He has free will and so do we.

Some claim God did not actually create man in His Own Image because they don't accept all the Lord says in His Word.
 

ScottA

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Actually God created us in His Image. He has free will and so do we.

Some claim God did not actually create man in His Own Image because they don't accept all the Lord says in His Word.
Yes, I understand that. But as I touched on in post #8, our image of God includes His being "the same yesterday, today, and forever." Meaning, that our unfolding image "was, and is, and is to come" according to our will, just as He exists according to His will...which certainly qualifies to be called freewill. All of which is enough to make a time-bound mind spin in need of renewing. sml Hence the ongoing debate.
 

Bombastic

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If you get sincere with the Lord He can delivery you from those 5 deceptions and show you why they aren't biblical.
The Lord has never led anybody to become a calvinist because they would have to twist scripture and ignore other scripture in order to agree with calvinism.

Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Ephesians 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.




I know, the calvinists have a rather large portfolio of false doctrine




You mean like a little calvinist on calvinist persecution on those not calvinist enough?




Why not address why Romans 6:16 is a lie to the dark calvinist mind?

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Notice this passage is clearly saying “to whom YOU obey” indicating very clearly that we are the ones deciding to either walk in sin and be separated from the Lord, or to walk in obedience to the Lord and remain in right standing with the Lord.

This is very simple, straight forward, and easy to understand and yet they refuse to accept the plain reading of scripture




It's OK man, you can go ahead and type out God and the Lord won't strike you down or anything.




Yeah, we know. The enemy is about to try and convince people to stop following the Word of God and instead start following vain words, philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
LOL!
 

Bombastic

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Yes, LOL indeed when dealing with calvinist eisegesis that takes a lot of subterfuge, and chicanery to make calvinist heresy seem somewhat plausible to the gullible who won't study God's Word for themselves
And that's exactly what you yourself are guilty of. Quit projecting on Calvinists and don't blame anybody else for your lack of comprehension.
At the bottom of this page are three great videos. Decades ago I took the time to learn about Arianism, Pelagianism, Calvinism, Arminianism, and Universalism. All 40-plus thousand denominations are in one of these schools of thought. Only one strict monergism. I even took the time to read from opponents and books like "The Dark Side of Calvinism." Your responses are undoubtedly from somebody that rejects systematic approaches.

 

Bombastic

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And the calvinists work double time trying to explain this fact away and of course the devil is always happy to help and assist his calvinist brethren in any way he can.
Obviously you define free will as choice or decision-making.
Whether you choose to flap your arms like a bird to reach the heavens or decide not to, you'll be held accountable and responsible.
The natural man is grounded in his nature and has fallen short of the glory of G-d. You can't pull yourself up by your own bootstraps.
If free will is defined as the choice given or the choice to decide, then I believe that!
 

Dan Clarkston

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And that's exactly what you yourself are guilty of.

That's what the devils keep trying to get me to believe. I'll pass.

They done come too late to deceive me in to following that murderer John Calvin.

I got the Holy Ghost as my Teacher so I know better than to follow doctrines of devils. It's not happening. disagree.gif

But, I appreciate the offer and you thinkin about me and all. That was nice, but no dice.


don't blame anybody else for your lack of comprehension.

That's calvinist speaK for "we will tell you what to believe, so stop reading God's Word, stop listening to the Holy Spirit and bow down to us calvinists for we are fart superior in intellect and the art of deception so you need to just take us at our word"

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Your responses are undoubtedly from somebody that rejects systematic approaches

My responses come from being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ in to all Truth
Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

The Holy Spirit has never once led anybody to become a calvinist. If He did then He would have to violate the mandate Jesus issue for the Holy Spirit to lead and guide in to all Truth, something calvinists are blinded to.


Decades ago I took the time to learn about Arianism, Pelagianism, Calvinism, Arminianism, and Universalism.

Smooth move exlax! You wasted all that time studying the traditions of men rather than God's Word.

Sadly that did not work out very well for you at all. The enemy tricked you in to becoming calvinist clueless-doh.gif