"The Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

[ScottA]

ScottA was addressing @TrevorHL in this quote and as usual ScottA has blindsided himself with his perceived level of understanding of the scriptures.

He said this about what I had posted above: -


Now ScottA, your understanding of the Greek word for "generation" of "that generation" is more in keeping with the understanding of a "descendant generation," rather than having an understanding that the duration of a "generation," in the seventh age, has a duration of a season, i.e. 1,000 years, plus a Little While Period which has a duration of around 24 solar years.

In Exodus 20:4-6 the Lord stated that the visitation of the Fathers' sins would be happening over two generation/ages and from the time of Christ's crucifixion up and until the time that God will begin establishing His Everlasting Kingdom here on the earth after He has judge the heavenly hosts in heaven and the Kings of the earth on the earth at Armageddon around the year 2045 AD.

After the four beasts and the Little Horn and Satan are judged in Heaven, then "The Son of Man," i.e. Jesus/Christ, will be given dominion over the peoples of the earth such that they should worship Him, (Daniel 7:11-14) until Christ comes with all of His Heavenly Hosts to visit God's Everlasting Kingdom, to Judge all of mankind, from the time of Adam up to the time of the Final judgement after Satan is dispatched into the Lake of Fire, where He will be joined by those people who are deemed to be not righteous will also experience the Second Death in the Lake of Fire, (Revelation 20:11ff) and the deemed righteous will enter into their promised possession of the whole earth to which God and the refreshed Temple/Mt Zion/Jerusalem will come down to so that God and His Saints can communion together in a peaceful relationship.

The Robber on the cross was promised that day that he would join Christ in paradise at some point in time in the future.

We who are God's Saints have also been promised that we will join God in this same paradise after we, the redeemed, are separated from the rest of humanity. When we physically die we, the saints, look forward to this time.

Shalom

The comma issue again. I just addressed it earlier in post #14:

Both are fine translations, regardless of the comma placement.​ ​ The issue, and the problem, however, is not to be solved or fully understood merely by the rule of times according to the ways of this world as they are defined. The matter transcends time. This equation has two different sides, each having their own defining terms...which need to be rightly divided. Do understand--that is true of every word from God--some passages refer to things according to the terms of this world, and some not, but according to the terms of heaven. This particular subject has both.​ ...​ ​ As for the comma shift, it works both ways: Jesus said it that day, but was referring to that day being the last day when the thief would be absent from the body, crossing the line between the two (heavenly terms and worldly terms) causing the need to translate between the two according to there different terms by definition. And that is the difficulty and the rub of this topic. Not because it is so hard to see or understand--but because many do not even see that what is written can be as different as heaven and earth.​ ​ The question then becomes, who is even willing to see?​

Thus, it the comma defines "today" as that day when Jesus said it, there is no problem. You refer to the future--but you are out of context--the thief had no future--meaning that very day he would be with Jesus in Paradise. That is unless you are going to claim "Purgatory", which just means there is another stake in your beliefs that needs to be uprooted. Perhaps not "today."

But the point is this: Jesus was not referring to an event that would occur in time, but in heaven--thus, there is no future within that equation, but only in future experiences by others having there own "today"--"but each in his own order."

 

[Gottservant]

I must admit, I have never thought of the Lord and His Kingdom advancing in separate positions, all at once!

 

[Jay Ross]

Thus, the comma defines "today" as that day when Jesus said it, there is no problem.

If I said to you today, that you will be with me in Vagas, without specifying the day that it would happen, the statement is true if it happens today or over 3,000 years into the future.

It seems to me that you are trying to make a case for something which is silent within the words that Christ uttered.

If Christ came to me and said, "Today, I tell you, that you will be with me in Paradise.", I would be a very happy person because I will have received Christ assurance that He considers me to be a righteous person and as such, at some time in the future, after Christ's second advent occurs, that I will be with Him wherever He will be.

This seems to me to be a trivial contentious point to disagree over.

Shalom

PS: - I cannot enter into my inheritance until I have been formally judged righteous.

 

[ScottA]

If I said to you today, that you will be with me in Vagas, without specifying the day that it would happen, the statement is true if it happens today or over 3,000 years into the future.

It seems to me that you are trying to make a case for something which is silent within the words that Christ uttered.

If Christ came to me and said, "Today, I tell you, that you will be with me in Paradise.", I would be a very happy person because I will have received Christ assurance that He considers me to be a righteous person and as such, at some time in the future, after Christ's second advent occurs, that I will be with Him wherever He will be.

This seems to me to be a trivial contentious point to disagree over.

Shalom

PS: - I cannot enter into my inheritance until I have been formally judged righteous.

Whoever is righteous was judged righteous when the Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, then only revealed when the times are fulfilled, Just as it was with Jesus.

The point...is not one to disagree over, but to be understood--understood because it is a point Christ has made. He said "today" that exact day He too was judged and died--the day everything changed for everyone before and after that day--at least that was the day He came and it was revealed in life and death. Although it is written as "before the foundation of the world." And what of the thief--but first the two thieves? One on either side--do you not see the image? The one who blasphemed him on one side, and one who heard His voice, separate "one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats." One on one sided as all in Adam, and on the other side all in Christ as One man. And of the one who heard His voice, He said ,"today", and that day was today, that day when he passed from death to life. That day of the Lord.

Only God can do all that to make a point, and that is what He has done--"but each one in his own order."

 

[Jay Ross]

The point...is not one to disagree over, but to be understood--understood because it is a point Christ has made. He said "today" that exact day He too was judged and died--the day everything changed for everyone before and after that day--at least that was the day He came and it was revealed in life and death. Although it is written as "before the foundation of the world." And what of the thief--but first the two thieves? One on either side--do you not see the image? The one who blasphemed him on one side, and on who heard His voice, separate "one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats." One on one sided as all in Adam, and on the other side all in Christ as One man. And of the one who heard His voice, He said ,"today", and that day was today, that day when he passed from death to life. That day of the Lord.

Only God can do all that to make a point, and that is what He has done--"but each one in his own order."

This disagreement is focused on what the understanding of verse 4 above: -

"just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,"​

as to whether or not all of mankind was chosen before the foundation of the earth and would be redeemed at the time of the final judgement.

There are two separations associated with the final judgement. The first separation is to separate those who call Jesus Lord from those who do not call Jesus Lord. Those who do not call Jesus Lord, are separated into the lake of Fire. The second separation is to separate the Rams from the He-goats who call Jesus Lord but based upon their fruits they will be divided into those who are righteous and those who are unrighteous who are also dispatched into the Lake of Fire such that the unrighteous will also experience the Second Death with those who do not call Jesus Lord.

This is in line with Ezekiel 18 where if a person who is among God's Saints' sins, but will not repent of their sins, then they will no longer retain the gift of Life when they are judged but rather they will experience the second death after they are judged.

All are chosen to be saints but not all are capable of Loving God and keeping His statutes and commandments.

This view is very different to the one which you present.

Shalom​

 

[ScottA]

View attachment 86861

This disagreement is focused on what the understanding of verse 4 above: -

"just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love,"​

as to whether or not all of mankind was chosen before the foundation of the earth and would be redeemed at the time of the final judgement.

There are two separations associated with the final judgement. The first separation is to separate those who call Jesus Lord from those who do not call Jesus Lord. Those who do not call Jesus Lord, are separated into the lake of Fire. The second separation is to separate the Rams from the He-goats who call Jesus Lord but based upon their fruits they will be divided into those who are righteous and those who are unrighteous who are also dispatched into the Lake of Fire such that the unrighteous will also experience the Second Death with those who do not call Jesus Lord.

This is in line with Ezekiel 18 where if a person who is among God's Saints' sins, but will not repent of their sins, then they will no longer retain the gift of Life when they are judged but rather they will experience the second death after they are judged.

All are chosen to be saints but not all are capable of Loving God and keeping His statutes and commandments.

This view is very different to the one which you present.

Shalom​

I don't see why you call your explanation "disagreement." Is this not all described by God as the dividing "the light from the darkness", and also as the unfolding of one man Adam into all who are born of the flesh divided from all who are born of God in One man Jesus Christ? And if "predestined", then predetermined, meaning prejudged "before."

 

[Jay Ross]

I don't see why you call your explanation "disagreement." Is this not all described by God as the dividing "the light from the darkness", and also as the unfolding of one man Adam into all who are born of the flesh divided from all who are born of God in One man Jesus Christ? And if "predestined", then predetermined, meaning prejudged "before."

If you say so, but your expressed understanding does not align with my understand of the scriptures. It does not follow the KISS principles.