The taken and the left

[IndianaRob]

The way that whole passage is written makes me wonder if it is referring to the old man/new man, because the examples Jesus gave were always two of the same gender together...at His coming one will be taken and the other left. I don't know which is which though.

Not saying you're wrong and I'm right, but I think it was believers gathered either at the cross or at His tomb. Exodus seems to show that God uses eagles as a symbol of how He draws people to Himself.

Exodus 19:4 — "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Hm. Okay. Not sure any of that is addressing any of my comments... and maybe just avoiding them... but yeah, okay. <smile>

It was from this of yours.
like a director assigning parts to actors for a movie or play, right?

 

[rebuilder 454]

If you like being eaten by eagles, then I guess its a good place for you, but I'd rather be left with Jesus through the Millennium.

37 And they answered and said to Him, “Where, Lord?”

So He said to them, “Wherever the body is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”

Jesus used "dogs, bread, and children , when none of that was literally there, in the conversation with the cannonite woman.
If we apply your methods, (Jesus literally referring to them), the woman, therefore, would need to actually say, (using your interpretation methods), "what dogs, children, and bread"?
Then walk away satisfied that she was correct in not understanding it was all an analogy. ...and stay empty handed.

Pssst...LITERAL eagles and corpses do not fit ANY rapture position.
.....unless you think the rapture timing is armageddon ( eagles and corpses )
....which would be ....again....incorrect.

So much of what Jesus used was analogy.
The reader has to dig to understand.

 

[doctrox]

Exodus 19:4 — "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."

Your cite uses a word for eagle (nešer) that is different from that found in the "one taken, one left" scenario. The usage of that eagle appears 26 times.

Whereas there are only four appearances of eagle (aetos) as pertains to the "one taken, one left" topic:

...two verses where eagles are gathered around carcasses and dead bodies:

"For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together."

"And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

...and two more verses:

"And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle." [The fourth beast was not a flying eagle itself but was similar to a flying eagle.]

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." [The woman was given two wings of an eagle - not the eagle itself - with which to fly.]

- source

The reader has to dig to understand.

Rather, no shovels required! Who gives us understanding - men, or God? It's the scholars, the wannabee's, the fakirs, who have corrupted the covenant and led many astray:

But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts (Mal. 2:8)

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (James 1:5)

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus (2 Tim. 3:14-15).

Notice that even a child understands the holy scriptures -- no middlemen wanna-be ‘scholars’ required!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus used "dogs, bread, and children , when none of that was literally there, in the conversation with the cannonite woman.
If we apply your methods, (Jesus literally referring to them), the woman, therefore, would need to actually say, (using your interpretation methods), "what dogs, children, and bread"?
Then walk away satisfied that she was correct in not understanding it was all an analogy. ...and stay empty handed.

Pssst...LITERAL eagles and corpses do not fit ANY rapture position.
.....unless you think the rapture timing is armageddon ( eagles and corpses )
....which would be ....again....incorrect.

So much of what Jesus used was analogy.
The reader has to dig to understand.

What my biggest hurdle is, that Jesus only speaks of coming back once, not twice. If there was a secret resurrection rapture at the beginning of the seven year Great Tribulation, and another at the end before the wrath of God is poured out, wouldn't it spell it out in one place, instead of taking so many verses out of context here and there?

r454, just focus on abiding in Jesus and Him solidifying your walk in the Spirit with Jesus, so you may escape all these things. The only mysterious 'vanishings' would be the section in the gospel of the two in the field, the two is bed, with one taken and the other left alone. But the parallel gospels show the opposite of what fiction writer, Tim LaHaye writes who have confused thousands of people, don't you think? The Great Tribulation is a "time of testing" not the "wrath of God."

 

[rebuilder 454]

Your cite uses a word for eagle (nešer) that is different from that found in the "one taken, one left" scenario. The usage of that eagle appears 26 times.

Whereas there are only four appearances of eagle (aetos) as pertains to the "one taken, one left" topic:

...two verses where eagles are gathered around carcasses and dead bodies:

"For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together."

"And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

...and two more verses:

"And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle." [The fourth beast was not a flying eagle itself but was similar to a flying eagle.]

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." [The woman was given two wings of an eagle - not the eagle itself - with which to fly.]

- source


Rather, no shovels required! Who gives us understanding - men, or God? It's the scholars, the wannabee's, the fakirs, who have corrupted the covenant and led many astray:

But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts (Mal. 2:8)

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. (James 1:5)

But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus (2 Tim. 3:14-15).

Notice that even a child understands the holy scriptures -- no middlemen wanna-be ‘scholars’ required!

SMH.
Proverbs 2
1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;

Acts 17
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

THE BIBLE ="study to show thyself approved"

YOU= "NO, study would be evil"

We are warned about so called believers teaching study is a bad thing.
2 tim 2
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

QUOTE
"Notice that even a child understands the holy scriptures -- no middlemen wanna-be ‘scholars’ required!"

....and yet here you are as a middleman, railing against studying Gods word, and calling us names as if you are an actual mature believer.

Oh the irony!!!!!

QUOTE
"Rather, no shovels required! Who gives us understanding - men, or God? It's the scholars, the wannabee's, the fakirs, who have corrupted the covenant and led many astray:"

We are warned against your wild accusations, and bitterness against believers in James 3.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

This explains your confusion over thinking study is evil

 

[rebuilder 454]

What my biggest hurdle is, that Jesus only speaks of coming back once, not twice. If there was a secret resurrection rapture at the beginning of the seven year Great Tribulation, and another at the end before the wrath of God is poured out, wouldn't it spell it out in one place, instead of taking so many verses out of context here and there?

r454, just focus on abiding in Jesus and Him solidifying your walk in the Spirit with Jesus, so you may escape all these things. The only mysterious 'vanishings' would be the section in the gospel of the two in the field, the two is bed, with one taken and the other left alone. But the parallel gospels show the opposite of what fiction writer, Tim LaHaye writes who have confused thousands of people, don't you think? The Great Tribulation is a "time of testing" not the "wrath of God."

Well what is written is reliable.
What people think is not.

Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

That is the eternal word of God.
One vivid coming of JESUS HARVESTING THE ELECT DURING THE TRIB.

Now the second coming AFTER THE WRATH;
Rev 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

THAT IS GODS WORD.
THAT YOU SAY IS ONLY ONE COMING ...WHICH IS WRONG.

3 FUTURE COMINGS
I won't bother with the third, since you will not believe the bible.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

3 FUTURE COMINGS
I won't bother with the third, since you will not believe the bible.

I think you are talking resurrections, not "comings."

The last two would be the resurrection of the martyrs at the beginning of the Millennium (1,000 year reign on earth), and the resurrection of everyone else at the end.

It is the one before the 7 year Great Tribulation I'm having a problem seeing. It has been mistakenly said that that time of testing is God's wrath. No, testing is not wrath; it is the time for the Jews to see the truth about Jesus and join the Church, but also for lukewarm Christians who have believed false doctrines of greasy grace all their lives to have to decide whether to take the mark of the beast and live, or to finally make a stand for Christ and die.

No unbelieving Gentiles will be saved during that last 7 years, only Jews. Unbelieving Gentiles are said to be naked. The martyrs of the Great Tribulation already have robes, but dirty, and had to have them washed in the blood of the Lamb.