The order is the order given. If you don't like it or think Jesus had no particular reason for the order, take it up with Him.
Some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty
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Not questioning the order, just your imposing a chronological interpretation of it.
Anchorite, do you know everything?
Do you not know or even acknowledge, that all truth was to come at the order of Jesus by the Holy Spirit speaking through those Jesus sends--do you not know this is what is written?
If you knew, you should expect it--but that does not describe you at all--how sad for you!
I do not accept you as any prophet.
You interpret verses in ways not supported by the text.
You proclaim so many false doctrines.
You are not thinking. You are acting like one of the Priests or Pharisees when Jesus started talking stuff like eating His flesh and drinking His blood. That's how this works, and He is the Author, and Commander, sending those He chooses--the unqualified but perfect for the job--do you not understand that? This is exactly how it is suppose to go--not how you envision--but like having a donkey talk, a shepherd, fishermen, a persecutor of Christians. Why should you fall into the trap of those who "expected" more, ultimately opposing Him?
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
But there is nothing in the words that make them mean that the hundredfold came first chronologically, then the sixtyfold, then the thirtyfold. Obviously one word must come before another. Are you saying that because the word "hundredfold" wasn't spoken at exactly the same time as "some sixty" and "some thirty", that must mean that the one who bears a hundredfold does so before the one who bears six,y and the one who bears thirtyfold does so last of all? If we look back to Matthew 13:8, we find that it was one crop:
(Mat 13:8 NKJV) But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Yes, it just seems noteworthy that it perhaps works both ways. Which is then comparable with many passages that speak of things diminishing over time, and the warnings. The idea being that it began with Jesus building his church on what comes directly from the Father rather than flesh and blood. And Jesus's word then going out by 12 then 72, multiplying out even further unto the ends of the earth. All of which points to the dangers of hand-me-down words among men ending like the game of gossip many of us learned in school, as opposed to that direct word from God.
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well you are saying that after the apostles a whole bunch of false teachings have been going on for 1900 years+. You have written two you believe are. what are the rest?
But in the Matthew 13 passage, its so clear its not chronolgical at all. You are simply bring an overstatement to a passage that doesnt need it.
MATT 13:23 ESV "As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”
Doesn not in any way suggest an exact sequence they happened in time at all.
That is correct, but so is it also correct that there is continuity to every word from God. I don’t mean to say that it is one thing or another, but rather to show one possible point of continuity...and to say that we should even expect it and look for it. Afterall, it is written, "precept must be upon precept, Line upon line, line upon line, Here a little, there a little.”
But in your case with the Matthew passage, its not precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little, there a little.
What you are doing is bringing violence to the passage....in theological terns its call Eisegesis. You are not letting the natural meaning of the text stand on it own. You are undersimplifying the text. No need for unnecessary detail with your continulty.
Do you hear yourself? Apparently not.
You just pit the "natural" meaning of God's word against its spiritual continuity--when "the words are spirit."
What you are doing is exegesis, wrapped in sheep's clothing! - We're done here.
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Whenever you add your own carnal misunderstanding to a scripture, you run to the “this is the spiritual meaning” ploy.
Everyone can clearly see how you twist scripture to suit your own self-exalted prideful interpretations, as if you were some maligned prophet unjustly persecuted. No, you’re just a false prophet disguised as a special oracle.
This chronological mangling of the hundredfold, sixty fold, thirty fold is a perfect example of your misconstruing scripture. It is not a diminishing profit in sequential terms, it is one single crop of different amounts.
(Mat 13:8 NKJV) But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Pay more attention--that is not what just happened.
And you--you too have something against the Spirit with regard to the written word--and it shows.
You really need to watch your temper, friend.
How can I pit anything against spiritual continuity when thats a term of your choosing? But it sure is crystal clear you have pit natural meaning against spiritual continuity. The only thing I know about spiritual continuity is that of those in the baha'i faith. Are you of the baha'i faith?
And what natural meaning means is the plain natural simple reading of the passage...in this case the Matthew 13 passage of teh sower. Seems you have entered your own private interpretation of the passage.
These are the points of contention.
{1} But hearing and seeing--did you notice that those percentages chronologically--diminish and become smaller and smaller?
{2} Which He did repeatedly saying: "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" Three or more times in the gospels, and then again seven times in the book of Revelation. Only in the book of Revelation He actually says, what to hear: "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”
The first one has been debunked as false. Time has noting to do with the passage, but a yeild does. The Parable of the Sower is in Matthew , Mark and Luke. Its clearly talking about bearing fruit and yeilding a harvest. The believer who hears Jesus and believes , the 4th person of the parable is he who bears fruit and goes out and yeilds his own crop. And that crop can be 100 fold, 60 fold or 30 fold according to the passage.
For number 2, lets take a look at the context. Beggining at verse 1 of Matthew 13 we see Jesus sitting in a boat on the sea speaking to a large crowd of people.
Then we come to verse 9
9 He who has ears, let him hear.”
The Purpose of the Parables
10 Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” 11 And he answered them, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says:
“ ‘ “You will indeed hear but never understand,
and you will indeed see but never perceive.”
15 For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them.’
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see, and your ears, for they hear. 17 For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.
Do you get it now dear brother? This is the natural, simple plain reading of the scripture.....no need for what you called, "spiritual continuity".
Do you understand the 4 types of people the parable spoke of,.... also present in the crowed of people Jesus was speaking to? Yes all 4 types present that day. Besides the disciples others where there who believed with their heart and understood the parable. Others didnt. It was if they heard and saw, but could not hear and understand.
But brother......those who hear and see The Christ...are those who are given the keys of heaven.....these are those who bears fruit and yeild the crop....some 100, 60, 30.
Brother...the Holy spirit doesnt lead one into false doctrine. Its apparent you havent a firm grasp of the passage. Otherwise youd understand its not about time or spiritual continuity or anything like that. Its about trusting Jesus with the entire being...bearing fruit and speading the word to those who havent yet trusted The Christ. Thats the plain simple reading of the passage.....of course you have to have the ears to hear and the eyes to see.
Typical, accuse me of what you yourself have done. Which makes you an Accuser. Biblically.
And it's apparent you don't have a firm grip on simple math, and don't know how this works.
Is that all you think the passage says? Apparently so. But that was just the beginning of the equation--the seeding and prospective harvest part. What of the end and the actual harvest? What is the measure of God dealing with the outcome? Did you even think to consider it? He who planted also harvests--and your believing only in the elementary principles of Christ is part--the strong delusion part. But you did not perceive the matter any further than you were able...and so you mock. Do you not know and understand that you risk even what you have being taken from you?
What shall be written of you?
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