Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2

[Laurina]

I read it when I was very young and puffed up with knowledge. It only served to puff me up more. However, for the right person...at the right time...it can be very helpful

Here it is: The Spiritual Guide which Disentangles the Soul

Thank-you!! :)

 

[Lizbeth]

I was confused earlier but it’s my normal state so I just let it lay, but I’ll bite now. How do these 2 statements NOT line up?

#1 Leaning on our own understanding causes us to not be able to understand or resolve apparent contradictions in scripture.

#2 Lean not on your own understanding, commit all your ways to Him and He will guide your steps.

They appear to line up to me. (I’ll admit that when she said it I had my same earlier reaction of needing to get my hearing checked because she said something true but couldn’t stop to think that her never ending quest to line things up might in fact be caused BY leaning on her own understanding or the understanding of other men who made a doctrine and it sounded good to her.)

Well I'm glad we sorted that out. Sometimes we just need to take a break and then come back to look at something with fresh eyes as it were. I know I need to do that at times.

The bible says to test all things, and that is what I try to do. It just happens that I don't like loose ends for some reason, maybe it's just a stubbornness in me, I dont' know. Jesus said to ask and it will be given, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you. And if any lack wisdom we are told to ask the Lord who will give it liberally. But I know this isn't an exact science, it is a faith walk, and we need to remain open to the Lord correcting or tweeking or enlarging a thing as we have need, or as time goes on.

 

[Lizbeth]

For sure, there are things that we mourn but one of the many things Christ came to do was to give us a clear conscience from sin.

We have a clear conscience because Christ freed us from the law and all things are lawful for us. Those who accept that liberty usually don’t sin much any way because they have the fruits of the spirit, a new nature. But if they slip up, they ask for forgiveness and move on, they don’t dwell on it.

I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with this subject still. But maybe if we tackle it a bit a time.

We need to look at the whole counsel of God, taking all the scriptures in balance with one another, rather than isolating one verse.

Where it says All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient/helpful. We have to balance that with where it is also warning in that very same 1 Cor 6 passage of scripture, part of the context of that verse, that people who are living in sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. If we come to faith in Christ and keep living or go back to living in sin as we were before knowing the Lord we will disqualify ourselves. Pig returning to the mire, dog returning to its vomit.

1Co 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[fn] nor sodomites,
nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

And the bible says this:

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, ( I understand the grammatical tense there as being "if we keep on wilfully sinning...")

Says elsewhere that God is not mocked.....there are so many warnings in scripture not to abuse God's grace essentially. A three-fold cord is not easily broken, but it certainly can be. We will prove or disprove our faith by how we live.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Yeah, I misread it. In my head, how I understood what she had said and what it actually said, it was opposite. My bad! It was me who misread it, and I jumped on it!

You mean, for once, I am/was NOT the confused one…??! It’s a miracle Irene!
I fully expected you would come in and explain to me what I was missing!

I just yesterday sometime began a thread on Fenelon in devotions section and I posted a quote by him that sort of relates to this. Because with things like this, after the initial blush of oh my gosh what have I done and the dash to apologize, we are pleased that we have obtained more proof!

 

[ProDeo]

To this we must take heed

2 Co 5:10-11 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

The religious dogma of the Babylonian system tells us we have nothing to fear. The bible says otherwise. This is why we must be lowly and humble and not assume we are something we are not. Nor should we deal with matters that are over our head:

Ps 131:1 Lord, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty: neither do I exercise myself in great matters, or in things too high for me.

Also -

1Joh 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Joh 4:17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1Joh 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
1Joh 4:19 We love because he first loved us.

Don't forget the balance friend.

 

[IndianaRob]

I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with this subject still. But maybe if we tackle it a bit a time.

We need to look at the whole counsel of God, taking all the scriptures in balance with one another, rather than isolating one verse.

Where it says All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient/helpful. We have to balance that with where it is also warning in that very same 1 Cor 6 passage of scripture, part of the context of that verse, that people who are living in sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. If we come to faith in Christ and keep living or go back to living in sin as we were before knowing the Lord we will disqualify ourselves. Pig returning to the mire, dog returning to its vomit.

1Co 6:9-10
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[fn] nor sodomites,
nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

And the bible says this:

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, ( I understand the grammatical tense there as being "if we keep on wilfully sinning...")

Says elsewhere that God is not mocked.....there are so many warnings in scripture not to abuse God's grace essentially. A three-fold cord is not easily broken, but it certainly can be. We will prove or disprove our faith by how we live.

A bit at a time is the way to go. So before we move to other verses we have have to figure out out what “all things are lawful to me” means.

So it can me a exactly what it says ALL things are lawful or it can mean that Paul really didn’t mean what he said. For example what he really meant was some things are lawful for me.

Which of those does he mean in your opinion? You already know that I think he meant exactly what he said.

 

[MostlyConfused]

I read it when I was very young and puffed up with knowledge. It only served to puff me up more. However, for the right person...at the right time...it can be very helpful

Here it is: The Spiritual Guide which Disentangles the Soul

I began to read it and he had me from the first sentence of his prologue - a general and confused knowledge. I know this. It’s what I’ve experienced. (I’m literally MostlyConfused!) And being in a state of prayer but only seeing that you don’t pray (he says for months but it went on for years with me). He didn’t mention the next thing I was almost certain he would - having even the reading of my Bible taken from me. That will make pious men balk but it’s only because they don’t understand WHY He would mostly take that from someone.

I think I will get more proofs of my condition or state and will thereby be helped to read him.

 

[Lizbeth]

A bit at a time is the way to go. So before we move to other verses we have have to figure out out what “all things are lawful to me” means.

So it can me a exactly what it says ALL things are lawful or it can mean that Paul really didn’t mean what he said. For example what he really meant was some things are lawful for me.

Which of those does he mean in your opinion? You already know that I think he meant exactly what he said.

If something (sinning) is not expedient/helpful to our faith, there is the very real danger of it causing us to fall from grace. And therefore we would be under the law again, so to speak,, with the wrath of God abiding on us once again as a lost soul. Or even if, by a careless attitude towards sin and things of God (lukewarmness), we cause the Lord to spew us out of His mouth, then what?

We start with a clean slate, a clear conscience, but if we defile our conscience again by wilfully sinning, then what? The bible says we had been forgiven the sins of the past....that is what purified our conscience. Afterwards, if we sin when we are tempted in a weak moment and then sincerely repent, that is one thing....but if we keep on sinning deliberately and knowingly we make God out to be a cuckold and at some point, He will not tolerate or overlook that....He will not be mocked. We can grieve the Spirit enough that He will depart (as in ichabod).

Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

All the wonderful things that accompany salvation in the beginning is the milk of the word, but as we grow we start to notice the things in the word that are harder to digest, as the Lord begins to feed us with those things. We start to realize some of the harsher realities of life, so to speak, as we start growing up from childhood. And also growing means the Lord begins to do a deeper work in us.

 

[Lizbeth]

Also -

1Joh 4:16 So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
1Joh 4:17 By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
1Joh 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
1Joh 4:19 We love because he first loved us.

Don't forget the balance friend.

This is why we want to "go on to perfection".....running the race striving to reach the full stature of Christ, so that we will become as He is in the world. Until then the fear/terror of the Lord keeps nipping at our heals as we need it, to keep driving us forward.

 

[IndianaRob]

If something (sinning) is not expedient/helpful to our faith, there is the very real danger of it causing us to fall from grace. And therefore we would be under the law again, so to speak,, with the wrath of God abiding on us once again as a lost soul. Or even if, by a careless attitude towards sin and things of God (lukewarmness), we cause the Lord to spew us out of His mouth, then what?

We start with a clean slate, a clear conscience, but if we defile our conscience again by wilfully sinning, then what? The bible says we had been forgiven the sins of the past....that is what purified our conscience. Afterwards, if we sin when we are tempted in a weak moment and then sincerely repent, that is one thing....but if we keep on sinning deliberately and knowingly we make God out to be a cuckold and at some point, He will not tolerate or overlook that....He will not be mocked. We can grieve the Spirit enough that He will depart (as in ichabod).

Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

All the wonderful things that accompany salvation in the beginning is the milk of the word, but as we grow we start to notice the things in the word that are harder to digest, as the Lord begins to feed us with those things. We start to realize some of the harsher realities of life, so to speak, as we start growing up from childhood. And also growing means the Lord begins to do a deeper work in us.

“Not expedient” is not the same thing as “all things are lawful” and Paul did point that out. What we need to understand is why all things are lawful for Paul and for all believers.

A believer can commit a sin (we all do) and still not be held accountable (eternally) because all things are lawful for the believer, we’re judged eternally under grace (the righteousness of Christ), not how well performed keeping the law.

Will there be earthly consequences to our sin? Absolutely and even though we can sin, it behooves us to not sin. Does that make sense?

That’s why Paul says “All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.”

 

[Episkopos]

“Not expedient” is not the same thing as “all things are lawful” and Paul did point that out. What we need to understand is why all things are lawful for Paul and for all believers.

A believer can commit a sin (we all do) and still not be held accountable (eternally) because all things are lawful for the believer, we’re judged eternally under grace (the righteousness of Christ), not how well performed keeping the law.

Will there be earthly consequences to our sin? Absolutely and even though we can sin, it behooves us to not sin. Does that make sense?

That’s why Paul says “All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.”

I pegged you exactly right....you have a lawless salvation and you are saved IN your sin. And all the false pretenses to cover up an honest admission of what you actually do. ALL indoctrinated ones are like this. There is a pattern of selecting verses out of context to mock the truth contained in every other verse.

 

[IndianaRob]

I pegged you exactly right....you have a lawless salvation and you are saved IN your sin. And all the false pretenses to cover up an honest admission of what you actually do. ALL indoctrinated ones are like this. There is a pattern of selecting verses out of context to mock the truth contained in every other verse.

Question. Are you getting into heaven based on your works or the righteousness of Christ imputed to you?

 

[Lizbeth]

“Not expedient” is not the same thing as “all things are lawful” and Paul did point that out. What we need to understand is why all things are lawful for Paul and for all believers.

A believer can commit a sin (we all do) and still not be held accountable (eternally) because all things are lawful for the believer, we’re judged eternally under grace (the righteousness of Christ), not how well performed keeping the law.

Will there be earthly consequences to our sin? Absolutely and even though we can sin, it behooves us to not sin. Does that make sense?

That’s why Paul says “All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.”

This is hot off the press for me today brother, thanks be to God, because I never used to understand what James meant by the law of liberty. All things are lawful as concerns the law of Moses.........but James said we will be judged by the law of liberty.........which means if we go back under condemnation we will be judged more strictly than those who never knew Christ. If we come to faith in Christ and then fall away into a sinful lifestyle we will receive a greater condemnation, a sorer punishment.....because we knew better and had been delivered from the dominion of sin.

Heb 10:26-29

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The bible also says those who seek the mastery will not be crowned except we run lawfully. The law of liberty doesn't do away with the law of Moses per se (except the ordinances), it just means we serve in the new way of the spirit, love and liberty now.

Just want to add, I believe the Lord overlooks our inadvertent sins committed either unknowingly or caught off guard.....sins that were not wilful..........while we are growing and learning righteousness/holiness. (By Him overlooking such sins and faults, I don't mean that they don't matter, but that we are covered by His mercy and they don't cause us to come under condemnation.)

 

[Lizbeth]

Question. Are you getting into heaven based on your works or the righteousness of Christ imputed to you?

I believe His righteousness has been imputed to us, especially as babes and children, but we need to be on the narrow path of learning/endeavouring/reaching/seeking to actually live up to what has been imputed. By works is faith made perfect.

 

[IndianaRob]

This is hot off the press for me today brother, thanks be to God, because I never used to understand what James meant by the law of liberty. All things are lawful as concerns the law of Moses.........but James said we will be judged by the law of liberty.........which means if we go back under condemnation we will be judged more strictly than those who never knew Christ. If we come to faith in Christ and then fall away into a sinful lifestyle we will receive a greater condemnation, a sorer punishment.....because we knew better and had been delivered from the dominion of sin.

Heb 10:26-29

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The bible also says those who seek the mastery will not be crowned except we run lawfully. The law of liberty doesn't do away with the law of Moses per se (except the ordinances), it just means we serve in the new way of the spirit, love and liberty now.

I want to make sure I understand you. Are you saying those under the law of liberty are subject to a lesser judgment than those under the law?

 

[IndianaRob]

I believe His righteousness has been imputed to us, especially as babes and children, but we need to be on the narrow path of learning/endeavouring/reaching/seeking to actually live up to what has been imputed. By works is faith made perfect.

So in your view it’s Christ plus your works that gets you into heaven?

 

[amigo de christo]

Sister, rest assured I don't think God is concerned one bit about whether anyone knows how to turn on cookies or not. ( I dont' even understand what they are or how they work!) But He does care about the truth and He cares about souls. His attitude in His word towards the truth is not careless or cavalier, so ours should not be either. We should only tell someone to carry on believing what they believe if we sincerely think that what they are believing is the truth. Otherwise, for the sake of their soul we should instead try to bring correction through the word of God. I think that is basically what Amigo was trying to bring across. We have a church nowadays that has fallen prey to the political correctness of the world and regards any attempt at correction to equate to condemnation.

I've come across quite a few who give the impression that it doesn't matter what someone believes because God will somehow make it all right regardless, but that is not what His word teaches or implies and it is not the approach that is taken in His word. We can be serious and fervent , contending for the truth, even while resting in God.

And I want to say, please don't dismiss or put yourself down if there is anything you are not understanding.....seek the Lord for understanding and wisdom and He will give it to the sincerely seeking soul. We are in a spiritual battle and we're all growing and learning. Sometimes I come up against a brick wall and it seems impossible for me to understand a thing, it's so easy to be discouraged.....but then after seeking the Lord and waiting upon Him, one day out of the blue it's like He turns on the lights and the brick wall is just gone and understanding comes.

speaking of cookies , i done lost most my cookies just reading things that even those who profess to know Christ say and type .
We have indeed entered the final stage of the deception dear sister .

 

[amigo de christo]

So in your view it’s Christ plus your works that gets you into heaven?

allow me a few words of clemency my friend .
The problem is MANY , not this other sister lizbeth , but many follow another jesus all together now .
Now its easy for the sheep to see the difference between JESUS and a jesus .
Now both are gonna promise salvation .
BUT THE TRUE JESUS dont promise sin and salv ation , the other jesus , oh it will pander to the sin they so love .
Love cannot be seperated from obediance , anymore than love from the TRUTH .
A sheep has the love of GOD upon its heart . And that love PUTS GOD , CHRIST , FIRST .
YES , before mother , father , son , daughter , husband , wife or anythi ng .
AND it wont pander to SIN and accpetance of sin either .
IT is all about WHAT PLEASES GOD . And sin and lies DONT please GOD .
JESUS dont hold rain bows , he dont kiss korans for world peace and he dont
preach ecumiencal inclusive interfaith , WHICH DENIES THE FACT one has to BELIEVE ON HIM .

 

[IndianaRob]

allow me a few words of clemency my friend .
The problem is MANY , not this other sister lizbeth , but many follow another jesus all together now .
Now its easy for the sheep to see the difference between JESUS and a jesus .
Now both are gonna promise salvation .
BUT THE TRUE JESUS dont promise sin and salv ation , the other jesus , oh it will pander to the sin they so love .
Love cannot be seperated from obediance , anymore than love from the TRUTH .
A sheep has the love of GOD upon its heart . And that love PUTS GOD , CHRIST , FIRST .
YES , before mother , father , son , daughter , husband , wife or anythi ng .
AND it wont pander to SIN and accpetance of sin either .
IT is all about WHAT PLEASES GOD . And sin and lies DONT please GOD .
JESUS dont hold rain bows , he dont kiss korans for world peace and he dont
preach ecumiencal inclusive interfaith , WHICH DENIES THE FACT one has to BELIEVE ON HIM .

Yeah, I agree with that but I couldn't tell if you're saying you believe in Christ's righteousness and your own works, together, for salvation.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yeah, I agree with that but I couldn't tell if you're saying you believe in Christ's righteousness and your own works, together, for salvation.

By their fruits you will know them. And James goes so far as to say that we are not justified by faith alone. If there is genuine faith there will be fruit of some kind, even if not perfect yet. Even when we first come to faith ....our first work after believing with our heart is to confess with our mouth. "Believe in your heart AND confess with your mouth and you will be saved."

Jas 2:18-24

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.