Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Ah yes, allegory.... that's code for the devil tricking people in to believe Jesus doesn't know what He's talking about.
Some will die today and be cast forever into the Lake of Fire
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Ah yes, allegory.... that's code for the devil tricking people in to believe Jesus doesn't know what He's talking about.
Of course.
What do you mean by “Death of the soul and body”? And what is “hell”?
I’ve already addressed this (HERE)—it is a straw man.
Again, when does this everlasting destruction begin for unbelievers? What do you mean by "the death of the soul," is it non-existence or separation from God or something else? And why do you use the word "torture" when it doesn't appear in the Bible? That seems like a straw man.
To be saved, 1 Cor 15:1-4 teaches the X & Y requirements.
If a Christian relies on the word of GOD then there can be no doubt.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
You advocating for satan and his demons be set free from being incarcerated in hell for eternity?
Lots of tares going around advocating for satan these days.
JimKnox
Member
I am not playing your game.
I've watched this thread close enough to know what you believe, and I am in no mood.
Rev 20:10 teaches who are tormented forever & ever
Does Rev 20:11-15 also teach FOREVER & EVER torment ?
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10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
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Rev 20:10 teaches that Satan etc are tormented forever & ever
Where does Rev 20:11-15 teach the same TORMENT FOREVER & EVER as in Rev 20:10 ?
JimKnox
Member
That question is dishonest. You already know the context and it is eternal torment for ALL who are in the LOF.
Given that verse 10 is a part of the immediate context of 20:11-15, the better question is, is there a verse in 20:11-15 which teaches that the duration of torment is different than that mentioned in verse 10? If not, then the most likely explanation, the best interpretation, is because the duration of torment doesn’t change. That is a more natural reading of the text, rather than trying to impose an idea that isn’t anywhere in the context.
Then list the verses that teach the Rev 20:10 TORMENT FOREVER & EVER is also applicable to Rev 20:11-15.
The "lake of fire" context yes, but where is the duration given or implied in Rev 20:11-15.
Plus, do you believe a loving wonderful caring person who did not believe in Christ deserves the same Rev 20:10 punishment given to the devil ?
Once again, the only duration is mentioned in verse 10. Given that no duration is mentioned in vv 11-15, the best understanding would be that it is the same duration mentioned in verse 10. That’s how context works.
Do you believe in salvation by works? That is what your question implies, that “good” works can offset rejection of God.
What does God say about those who don’t believe in Jesus? Does God say they were “loving wonderful caring” people or that such people aren’t deserving of eternal punishment?
Jhn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
Jhn 3:19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.
Jhn 3:20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.
Rom 3:10 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Rom 3:11 no one understands; no one seeks for God.
Rom 3:12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”
Rom 3:13 “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.”
Rom 3:14 “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.”
…
Rom 3:18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
What do you think is a fitting punishment for lifelong idolatry and rebellion against God? And where do get the idea that it’s the same punishment?
Does a wonderful caring person who dies never hearing the Gospel deserve the same eternal torment punishment that the devil receives in Rev 20:10 ?
JS said -- ""Once again, the only duration is mentioned in verse 10. Given that no duration is mentioned in vv 11-15, the best understanding would be that it is the same duration mentioned in verse 10. That’s how context works.""
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Does context teach that wonderful caring person who never heard the gospel deserve the same Rev 20:10 never ending lake of fore torment that the devil will receive ?
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