God Commands Righteous Violence

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PS95

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I watched your video @Wrangler - but He didn't say anything about Vlad.
I have no problem with defending others against someone committing a violent act against another--- It's our duty to love one another.
Hopefully, we can do that with a clean shot to the kneecap, and maybe he can come to know the Lord in prison ministry.
We absolutely are to stop it if we can. Not a question.
but crazed ole Vlad?-- no-- that's is a very different topic. I'm not sure why you conflated the two.
 
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Wrangler

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I watched your video @Wrangler - but He didn't say anything about Vlad.
I’m glad you watched the vid
I'm not sure why you conflated the two.

Another thread is what motivated this one. Below is the Vlad vid.


I have no problem with defending others who are committing a violent act against another--- It's our duty to love one another.
Hopefully, we can do that with a clean shot to the kneecap, and maybe he can come to know the Lord in prison ministry
Affirmative self defense requires no jail time. What are you talking about?
 

Matthias

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“In the prison of Gherla, a Christian named Grecu was sentenced to be beaten to death. The process lasted a few weeks, during which he was beaten very slowly. … until he eventually died under this slow, repeated beating. One who led this torture was a member of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, whose name was Reck.

During the beatings, Reck said something to Grecu that the Communists often said to Chritians, ‘You know, I am God. I have power of life and death over you. The one who is in heaven cannot decide to keep you in life. Everything depends upon me. If I wish, you live. If I wish, you are killed. I am God!’ So he mocked the Christian.

Brother Grecu, in this horrible situation, gave Reck a very interesting answer, which I heard afterward from Reck himself. He said, ‘You don’t know what a deep thing you have said. Every caterpillar is in reality a butterfly, if he develops rightly. You have not been created to be a torturer, a man who kills. You have been created to become like God, with the life of the Godhead in your heart. Many who have been persecutors like you, have come to realize - like the apostle Paul - that it is shameful for a man to commit atrocities, that they can do much better things. So they have become partakers of the divine nature. Jesus said to the Jews of His time, ‘You are gods.’ Believe me, Mr. Reck, your real calling is to be Godlike - to have the character of God, not a torturer.’

At that moment, Reck did not pay much attention to the words of his victim, as Saul of Tarsus did not pay attention to the beautiful witness of Stephen being killed in his presence. But those words worked in his heart. And Reck later understood that this was his real calling.”

(Richard Wurmbrand, Tortured for Christ, pp. 43-44)

“Your real calling is to be Godlike - to have the character of God, not a torturer.”

God isn’t a torturer. Vlad was; he had the character of Satan.
 

PS95

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I’m glad you watched the vid


Another thread is what motivated this one. Below is the Vlad vid.



Affirmative self defense requires no jail time. What are you talking about?
jail time was for the attacker. no need to kill- just stop them. - defend someone.
 

Matthias

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“The prohibition of torture is a bedrock principle of international law. Torture, as well as cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment, is banned at all times, in all places, including in times of war. No national emergency, however dire, ever justifies its use. No one may ever be returned to a place where they would face torture. Many countries and armed groups nonetheless have engaged in torture. Human Rights Watch documents the use of torture all over the world. We are committed to pressing government authorities to act to prevent torture, as well as bringing those who engage in torture to justice. We also work to ensure that victims of torture obtain redress, including an enforceable right to fair and adequate compensation, and full rehabilitation.”


Human Rights Watch didn’t exist in the 15th century. The Church at all times should speak against the practice of torture. Church history shows us that it hasn’t.

No follower of Jesus should ever participate in torturing people, celebrate the torture of people, or encourage the torture of people. Any Christian who has needs to repent.
 

Matthias

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“Torture is how you create enemies, not how you defeat them.”

I remembered this quote but couldn’t place it.

AI Overview -

“That statement - originally made by Barack Obama during a speech on October 4, 2007. - highlights a major consensus among military, intelligence, and ethics experts regarding the strategic failures of torture.

The use of torture consistently undermines long-term security through several key mechanisms:

Radicalization and Recruitment

• Fueling insurgency: Documented abuse creates powerful propaganda for adversarial groups.

• Inspiring retaliation: It shifts local populations from neutral observers to active combatants.

• Poisoning peace: According to the International Committee of the Red Cross, treating captives inhumanely plants deep-seated hatred that ruins diplomatic solutions.

Faulty Intelligence

• Fabricated information: Captives will say anything to make the physical or psychological pain stop.

• Wasted resources: Pursuing false leads generated under duress actively derails real security operations.

• Superior alternatives: Experts note that rapport-building and strategic law enforcement produce far more reliable intelligence.

Loss of Moral Authority

• Damaged alliances: Violating human rights alienates international allies who refuse to cooperate with abusive regimes.

• Eroding legal standards: Bypassing domestic laws and international treaties, like the Geneva Conventions, weakens the overall rule of law.

• Degrading institutions: It fundamentally damages the moral standing and long-term reputation of the nation practicing it.”

Torture is a tool of the devil.
 
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Matthias

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“Catholic social teaching holds that something essential is missed whenever a human persons dignity is overlooked. Every human person possesses a God-given dignity.

But is this merely an idle claim that the Catholic Church makes about human life? No, it is a belief with far-reaching consequences. It is a belief that becomes visible through our actions. It Influences how we live and act; it shapes how we relate to other people, other cultural groups and other nations.

This chapter in our discussion guide examines the principle of human dignity in Catholic social teaching. The discussion guides overall purpose is to draw the issue of torture into clear focus, and to aid parish small groups, classes, families, and individuals as they look into the ways that Catholic social teaching applies to this important concern.

Why, then, do we begin by taking a close look at what the Church says about human dignity? Because basic to the Catholic Church’s stance against torture and / or the abuse of prisoners is the belief that such practice violates the human dignity, not only of the person who is tortured, but of those who impose the torture.”


The stance of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) is “against torture and / or the abuse of prisoners”. Why? Because “that practice violates the human dignity“ of the tortured and the torturer.

Vlad didn’t care about the human dignity of his enemies, nor about the human dignity of those doing the torturing at his behest. Does @Wrangler?

Does it sound like the USCCB holds Vlad up as a “Christian hero”? As someone whom Catholics should imitate?
 

Matthias

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Another thread is what motivated this one. Below is the Vlad vid.


I watched the video. What is the title of the thread? I would like to read what members here are saying about it.

***

I encourage my readers to watch the video. Listen carefully to what the narrator says about the “dark” path Vlad took.

That this is being put forward as the path, the way, for Christians to walk is outrageous.


P.S.

“God is the source of all light. To walk in the light is to share His character - to walk in righteousness and purity.”

(Allan Brown, “What Does It Mean to ‘Walk in the Light’? (1 John 1:7)”)


Vlad did not walk in the light. He walked in the dark.
 
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Matthias

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I’m required by the state to go through a police background check every three years. I just went through that process again last month.

@Wrangler, what do you think the state would say if my background check pulled up Vlad’s record? Do you think the state wants, highly values, and would allow someone with Vlad’s record to work with neglected, abused, and at risk children?

***

Vlad was a monster. I work with children whose parent(s) sometimes reaches the level of cruelty that Vlad achieved.

The background check is performed to make sure that people like Vlad aren’t put in the position that I’m in.
 
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Wrangler

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jail time was for the attacker. no need to kill- just stop them. - defend someone.
Naive. The burden to not be killed is on the evil doer. It's not the burden of the defender to stop but not kill. Don't you know killing his enemies is the first thing Christ will do upon his return? Killing is his top priority, which is why he does it straight away.

My friend's father said growing up that locks keep the honest people out. Think about it. There are many vids out there where only lethal force stops people.
 

Matthias

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My friend's father said growing up that locks keep the honest people out. Think about it.

Your friend’s father is wrong. Watch the video in post #1. The speaker isn’t talking about keeping honest people out when he advises to keep your doors locked as a means of defending yourself.
 
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PS95

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Naive. The burden to not be killed is on the evil doer. It's not the burden of the defender to stop but not kill. Don't you know killing his enemies is the first thing Christ will do upon his return? Killing is his top priority, which is why he does it straight away.

My friend's father said growing up that locks keep the honest people out. Think about it. There are many vids out there where only lethal force stops people.
Wrangler- you are going off the deep end.. If a person has the option to save a life without having to take another's life- they should try. There is nothing wrong with taking someone down w/o having to kill them. Even a cop knows that much.
If there is no way around it or he accidentally dies- that's one thing- but the heart of the one doing the defending should not be full of vengeance towards that person. He should be attempting to quell violence.
Jesus will destroy them- YES. We are not HIM. He is the judge. He commanded us to love our enemies.
I am not saying to do nothing- that's absurd- but if it is in your capabilities not to take a life- and you do anyway- sumthin is very wrong.
Is it better to save a life or destroy it?
Think of it this way- it may be easy to die- harder to end injured but alive and in jail- and besides like I said, there is always hope- many in prison come to Christ.
You are ignoring Christ- love your enemies. Old testament is not above the words of Christ in the New. We have a new covenant- and we have instructions to follow out of the very mouth of Christ. If we don't listen to Him in obedience- that's a huge PROBLEM.
The goal here is to end violence- not to try to kill a person.
Go and spend some time in prayer please. As long as it takes-- and ask God to soften that heart of yours. You are out of control.
 

Wrangler

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Wrangler- you are going off the deep end.. If a person has the option to save a life without having to take another's life- they should try.
No deep end. Of course, taking a life is the beginning point of this thread w.r.t. righteous violence commanded by God. Why are you hijacking it?
 

Wrangler

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The goal here is to end violence- not to try to kill a person.
Violence ends violence. See every war ever fought.

You are ignoring Christ- love your enemies.
Nope. I am not ignoring Christ but using his future actions as a model for our own and I've pointed this out many, many times. Ecc, there is a time for peace and a time for war. Do you agree?
 

PS95

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Violence ends violence. See every war ever fought.
Don't you think shooting someone in the kneecap is violent? I do. If there is no need to stop him by killing him- why not do that?


Nope. I am not ignoring Christ but using his future actions as a model for our own and I've pointed this out many, many times. Ecc, there is a time for peace and a time for war. Do you agree?
We should not be running ahead of Christ. He will destroy them all. Vengeance is His.
I understand that there will be wars- Jesus said so. Are all wars necessary? I don't think so. I think there are warmongers too. Should we protect our nation? YES.
I can't say I agree with how you view, Vlad. No.
 
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Matthias

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I watched the video. What is the title of the thread? I would like to read what members here are saying about it.

It’s a simple question @Wrangler. Why didn’t you answer it?

An honest person has no problem answering a simple question. Only a dishonest person avoids answering a simple question.” - Wrangler

Okay. Maybe someone else can help me find it.
 

Matthias

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Vlad …Thoughts?

Beastlike.

“Evil to evil is beastlike, and no Christian will indulge in it; but good for evil is Christlike, and we must practice it. - C.H. Spurgeon

Vlad was evil; beastlike.

You’re presenting Vlad as good; Christlike.

You’re teaching others to practice beastlike thought and behavior, not Christlike thought and behavior.
 
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