Daniel 9:25 - the messiah the prince

[David in NJ]

Ok, how have you applied this to chapter 9?

Exactly as it is written

26“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; = Crucifixion

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. = 70AD / 40 years AFTER the Crucifixion
The end of it shall be with a flood,

And till the end of the war desolations are determined = Matthew 24:4-8

27Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; = Coming of the Antichrist = Matt24:15-25 & 2 Thess ch2 & 1 John ch2
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, = Revelation
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”

 

[CTK]

We just see things differently, not a problem.

I am not entirely sure what you mean by “seeing things differently,” but let me approach the issue this way.

In Daniel 9, English translations use the word “prince” four times. A reader may naturally assume that all four occurrences represent the same Hebrew word and carry the same meaning. They do not.

Daniel 9:6 and 9:8 refer to Israel’s “princes” using the Hebrew word śar. Daniel 9:25 and 9:26 use a different word, nagiyd, for “Messiah the Prince” and “the prince who is to come.” That distinction matters. When different Hebrew words are translated by the same English word, important differences can easily disappear. This becomes especially problematic when someone attempts to identify these princes solely by applying an English rule about the nearest antecedent.

Some argue that the “prince who is to come” in verse 26 must refer back to “Messiah the Prince” in verse 25 simply because Messiah is the nearest preceding person called a prince. But that conclusion cannot be established merely by appealing to English grammar.

The Hebrew Scriptures were not written according to modern English grammatical conventions, nor was the Greek New Testament. English translations must naturally follow English sentence structure, but the interpretation must ultimately be governed by the original language, the immediate context, and the sequence of events described in the prophecy. Therefore, we should not assume that every English occurrence of “prince” means exactly the same thing, nor should we identify the prince of verse 26 simply by locating the nearest English antecedent. The Hebrew words and the context must first be examined.

 

[IndianaRob]

There is no other verse in the OT where the individual term “shabu” can be found.

However, in verse 24 Gabriel deliberately writes:

שָׁבֻעִים שִׁבְעִים
shābuʿim shivʿim
“seventy sevens/weeks”

The plural "shabuim" is just the normal plural of "shabua," the same way "weeks" is the plural of "week." Neither the singular nor the plural form is used to mean "years" anywhere else in the Old Testament.

 

[IndianaRob]

Did you SEE this?

Moses prophesied of the Prince of Peace under a different Name that has the same meaning.

Moses prophecy does not declare a 'future' naming BUT that His Name of Peace is from Eternity

We’re talking about the title Prince.

 

[IndianaRob]

I am not entirely sure what you mean by “seeing things differently,” but let me approach the issue this way.

In Daniel 9, English translations use the word “prince” four times. A reader may naturally assume that all four occurrences represent the same Hebrew word and carry the same meaning. They do not.

Daniel 9:6 and 9:8 refer to Israel’s “princes” using the Hebrew word śar. Daniel 9:25 and 9:26 use a different word, nagiyd, for “Messiah the Prince” and “the prince who is to come.” That distinction matters. When different Hebrew words are translated by the same English word, important differences can easily disappear. This becomes especially problematic when someone attempts to identify these princes solely by applying an English rule about the nearest antecedent.

Some argue that the “prince who is to come” in verse 26 must refer back to “Messiah the Prince” in verse 25 simply because Messiah is the nearest preceding person called a prince. But that conclusion cannot be established merely by appealing to English grammar.

The Hebrew Scriptures were not written according to modern English grammatical conventions, nor was the Greek New Testament. English translations must naturally follow English sentence structure, but the interpretation must ultimately be governed by the original language, the immediate context, and the sequence of events described in the prophecy. Therefore, we should not assume that every English occurrence of “prince” means exactly the same thing, nor should we identify the prince of verse 26 simply by locating the nearest English antecedent. The Hebrew words and the context must first be examined.

I don’t argue that the “prince who is to come” in verse 26 must refer back to “Messiah the Prince” in verse 25.

The Prince to come is not the Messiah.

 

[CTK]

Exactly as it is written

26“And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; = Crucifixion

Yes.

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. = 70AD / 40 years AFTER the Crucifixion
The end of it shall be with a flood,

Who is this prince and why?

And till the end of the war desolations are determined = Matthew 24:4-8

skip for now...

27Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; = Coming of the Antichrist = Matt24:15-25 & 2 Thess ch2 & 1 John ch2

Who confirms the covenant and why?

You show the words "with many for one week." Have you studied this phrase as it is written in Hebrew or are you accepting that this "covenant" is "FOR" A WEEK?

What do you think the term "one week" means and what week does it refer to and why?

But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

What do you think the term "middle of the week" means?

Who shall bring an end to sacrifice and offerings and why?

And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, = Revelation

What does this phrase mean? What does the term "abominations" refer to and why?

What does the term "desolate" mean and who does it apply to?

Even until the consummation, which is determined,

What does the term "consummation" refer to and why?

Who determines when the "consummation" ends?

Is poured out on the desolate.”

What does this mean?

What is being "poured out"/

Who is this being "poured out on"?

Who are the "desolate"?

 

[CTK]

I don’t argue that the “prince who is to come” in verse 26 must refer back to “Messiah the Prince” in verse 25.

The Prince to come is not the Messiah.

If I have confused you please let me know... Daniel is THE MOST DIFFICULT BOOK IN THE SCRIPTURES TO UNDERSTAND.... it is easily 100 times more difficult than Revelation.

 

[IndianaRob]

If I have confused you please let me know... Daniel is THE MOST DIFFICULT BOOK IN THE SCRIPTURES TO UNDERSTAND.... it is easily 100 times more difficult than Revelation.

I enjoy talking about it. I follow your logic I just don’t see it the way you see it.

 

[David in NJ]

We’re talking about the title Prince.

JESUS is both Prince of Peace and KING of Kings

Who was Melchizedec???

 

[David in NJ]

Yes.


Who is this prince and why?


skip for now...


Who confirms the covenant and why?

You show the words "with many for one week." Have you studied this phrase as it is written in Hebrew or are you accepting that this "covenant" is "FOR" A WEEK?

What do you think the term "one week" means and what week does it refer to and why?




What do you think the term "middle of the week" means?

Who shall bring an end to sacrifice and offerings and why?


What does this phrase mean? What does the term "abominations" refer to and why?

What does the term "desolate" mean and who does it apply to?


What does the term "consummation" refer to and why?

Who determines when the "consummation" ends?


What does this mean?

What is being "poured out"/

Who is this being "poured out on"?

Who are the "desolate"?

All your questions have been answered in the Scriptures via Gospel, Apostles writings and Revelation = just as I referenced for you.

Keep this in your heart and mind = 'Antichrist' mimicks the LORD = thus he makes a treaty for 7 years and breaks it mid-week

 

[David in NJ]

Yes.


Who is this prince and why?


skip for now...


Who confirms the covenant and why?

You show the words "with many for one week." Have you studied this phrase as it is written in Hebrew or are you accepting that this "covenant" is "FOR" A WEEK?

What do you think the term "one week" means and what week does it refer to and why?




What do you think the term "middle of the week" means?

Who shall bring an end to sacrifice and offerings and why?


What does this phrase mean? What does the term "abominations" refer to and why?

What does the term "desolate" mean and who does it apply to?


What does the term "consummation" refer to and why?

Who determines when the "consummation" ends?


What does this mean?

What is being "poured out"/

Who is this being "poured out on"?

Who are the "desolate"?

If you read Revelation, with prayer, you can see "poured out" on the "desolate"

 

[CTK]

All your questions have been answered in the Scriptures via Gospel, Apostles writings and Revelation = just as I referenced for you.

Keep this in your heart and mind = 'Antichrist' mimicks the LORD = thus he makes a treaty for 7 years and breaks it mid-week

Well, thanks for all the information ...

 

[CTK]

If you read Revelation, with prayer, you can see "poured out" on the "desolate"

Well, thanks again for all your information and discussion ...

 

[CTK]

All your questions have been answered in the Scriptures via Gospel, Apostles writings and Revelation = just as I referenced for you.

Keep this in your heart and mind = 'Antichrist' mimicks the LORD = thus he makes a treaty for 7 years and breaks it mid-week

Great ... best wishes.

 

[David in NJ]

If I have confused you please let me know... Daniel is THE MOST DIFFICULT BOOK IN THE SCRIPTURES TO UNDERSTAND.... it is easily 100 times more difficult than Revelation.

The GOSPEL and the Apostles writings make Daniel CLEAR for us.

Revelation contains Daniel

Religion has made it difficult for people by confusing them on Prophecy = like in Daniel chapter 9

How to clear the confusion???

God has the Answer = Matt 4:4, John 14:15-18 , Acts

If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3Then there appeared to them ivided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance

 

[claninja]

JESUS quoted from the prophet Daniel of the AoD

Agreed

disciples knew of this prophecy of Daniel to which JESUS mentioned.

Agreed

What is your understanding of the AoD?

“Some terrible event in the Jewish war, by which the temple was desecrated”.

Thayers lexicon:
the expression τό βδέλυγμα τῆςἐρημώσεως the desolating abomination(others take the genitive, others; e. g. Meyer as a genitive epexegetical) in Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14 (1 Macc. 1:54), seems to designate some terrible event in the Jewish war by which the temple was desecrated, perhaps that related by Josephus, b. j. 4, 9, 11ff (the Sept. Daniel 11:31; Daniel 12:11, βδέλυγμα (τῆς) ἐρημώσεως for מְשֹׁמֵםשִׁקּוּץ and שֹׁמֵם שִׁקוּץ, Daniel 9:27βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων for מְשֹׁמֵםשִׁקוּצִים the abomination (or abominations) wrought by the desolator

 

[David in NJ]

Agreed

Agreed


“Some terrible event in the Jewish war, by which the temple was desecrated”.

Thayers lexicon:
the expression τό βδέλυγμα τῆςἐρημώσεως the desolating abomination(others take the genitive, others; e. g. Meyer as a genitive epexegetical) in Matthew 24:15; Mark 13:14 (1 Macc. 1:54), seems to designate some terrible event in the Jewish war by which the temple was desecrated, perhaps that related by Josephus, b. j. 4, 9, 11ff (the Sept. Daniel 11:31; Daniel 12:11, βδέλυγμα (τῆς) ἐρημώσεως for מְשֹׁמֵםשִׁקּוּץ and שֹׁמֵם שִׁקוּץ, Daniel 9:27βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων for מְשֹׁמֵםשִׁקוּצִים the abomination (or abominations) wrought by the desolator

AGREE

There are prophecies that do repeat and the AoD is one of them.

 

[amigo de christo]

JESUS is both Prince of Peace and KING of Kings

Who was Melchizedec???

and you shall be a priest FOREVER after the order of MELCHIZEDEC .
WHY after MELCHISZEDEC .
The prince of salem . And the less is blessed OF the BETTER . And this king mel BLESSED ABRAHAM who had the promises .
AND this king mel was the priest OF the MOST HIGH GOD .
Something about this . After the ORDER OF melchizedec FOREVER .
WHY was HE not called rather after the order of Aaron .
WHO was melchizedec , why he was the PRIEST and King of the MOST HIGH GOD . WHY it says so in GENESIS .

And now a word .
For we have such a high priest in the heavens , now to make intercession for us .
WHO has an UNCHANGEABLE priesthood . SEEING HE LIVETH FOREVER and is darn sure able
to save those to the upmost WHO COME TO GOD by HIM . FOR HE maketh intercession for us .
WHO was this king of nations , this king of peace .
That my friend is a very good question indeed .

 

[amigo de christo]

The GOSPEL and the Apostles writings make Daniel CLEAR for us.

Revelation contains Daniel

Religion has made it difficult for people by confusing them on Prophecy = like in Daniel chapter 9

How to clear the confusion???

God has the Answer = Matt 4:4, John 14:15-18 , Acts

If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; 5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” 6Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3Then there appeared to them ivided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance

Wanna hear something my friend . AND i was reminded OF IT when i read this .
Years upon years ago when i had first went to websites
nearly five years after having been reading ONLY THE BIBLE ,
i noticed something . I was like why on earth do we have so many teachings of these end time prophecies
and why on earth are they so messed up .
THEN came a very small voice to me and it said , YOU GO and behold and bring them
the very words of JESUS and ye shall see THEY TWIST and OMIT some of those words
and that is WHY they cannot see . and sure enough i did bring the basics david
AND SURE ENOUGH they were twisting and omitting things .
YOU SPOT ON RIGHT , THE KEY IS IF YOU LOVE ME YOU WOULD KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS , not twist his words
THEY have no true LOVE FOR JESUS , they are INDOCTRINATED of men and have learned the ways of whaterver
man best pleased their own ears .

 

[Truth7t7]

Messiah the Prince.

Messiah The Prince = Jesus Christ

the prince to come = The Little Horn/The Antichrist