Eph 1:13 sealed & saved yet still go to lake of fire ???

[PeterAndroz]

Ah yes, the "holding firm" clause in verse 2 of that gospel.

If you take the Mark of the Beast, are you holding firm?

Is believing a doctrine about Christ's death the same as trusting and being faithful to the person of Jesus Christ? Or only a part of faithfulness?

Continuing to trust & believe the 1 Cor 15:1-4 is the HOLD FIRMLY requirement to be Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed & saved.
Are you adding PERFORMANCE to the 1 Cor 15:1-4 Gospel ?
Let's see what PERFORMANCE levels Paul teaches are required to be Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed & saved ?
Titus 3:5-7 Nope
Eph 2:8-9 Nope
Gal 2:16 Nope
Rom 3:28 Nope
Rom 4:5 Nope
Rom 5:1 Nope.

 

[CrowCross]

"If" is a big word in this case. "If" you had understood, you would know I have answered already.

"If" one is born of God they are one with God, and therefore would never take the mark of the beast.

But do you understand that is after-the-fact?

I agree. I don't think tribulation saints will be naive to whats going on.

 

[Lambano]

Continuing to trust & believe the 1 Cor 15:1-4 is the HOLD FIRMLY requirement to be Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed & saved.
Are you adding PERFORMANCE to the 1 Cor 15:1-4 Gospel ?
Let's see what PERFORMANCE levels Paul teaches are required to be Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed & saved ?
Titus 3:5-7 Nope
Eph 2:8-9 Nope
Gal 2:16 Nope
Rom 3:28 Nope
Rom 4:5 Nope
Rom 5:1 Nope.

I think faith requires continued faithfulness, don't you? Hold firmly. Keep holding firmly.

Anyway, I strongly recommend against taking the Seal of the Beast. Don't do it.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I would think a tribulation saint would be wise to it...Today we can "peer" into the future and put together the hints in Revelation...but...when you're actually living in the tribulation, seen the 4 horseman, two witnesses and so forth...watching Revelation unfold in real time..and if you manage to survive to Revelation 13...saw, was part of it and watched 7 "Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation"....I would think a true Holy Spirit filled believer would know about taking the mark and the repercussion of the skin boils and being chucked into the lake of fire.

This also answers the @PeterAndroz question.

Today Crow is a 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed & saved believer
Today Crow takes the Rev 14:9-11 MOTB.
Does Crow got to the Rev 14:9-1 LOF ?

 

[PeterAndroz]

I think faith requires continued faithfulness, don't you? Hold firmly. Keep holding firmly.

Anyway, I strongly recommend against taking the Seal of the Beast. Don't do it.

Please list the verses where Paul teaches an Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed & saved believer who continues to believe & trust the 1 Cor 15:1-4 gospel becomes UNsaved by sinning

 

[CrowCross]

Today Crow is a 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed & saved believer
Today Crow takes the Rev 14:9-11 MOTB.
Does Crow got to the Rev 14:9-1 LOF ?

I won't be here for the mark...I will have been raptured long before it was rolled out.

 

[Stumpmaster]

That's interesting SM because 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 teaches that a believer IS not will be but IS saved & sealed if they hear, trust, believe the 1 Cor 15:1-4 gospel.
So now there's a problem or contradiction since where does Paul teach that a saved/sealed believer who trusts & believes the 1 Cor 15:1-4 Gospel can become UNsealed & UNsaved by sinning ?

Divine Foreknowledge eliminates all who A - P - O - S - T - A - T - I - S - E

Many Scriptures spell this out, not least

Col 1:21-23
(21) And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled
(22) in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—
(23) if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.​

Those saved and sealed are those who God in His Foreknowledge chooses, 100% knowing they DO NOT A - P - O - S - T - A - T - I - S - E

 

[PeterAndroz]

I won't be here for the mark...I will have been raptured long before it was rolled out.

Perfect response Crow, good to see someone who rightly divides Scripture

 

[Lambano]

Please list the verses where Paul teaches an Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 sealed & saved believer who continues to believe & trust the 1 Cor 15:1-4 gospel becomes UNsaved by sinning

Other way around: If a person lives a life characterized by sinning, i.e. not commensurate with being a "New Creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15), he has no reason to be confident that he is "sealed and saved". These words are paraphrased from John MacArthur's Saved Without a Doubt. You can check out his website or his book if you want a more detailed exposition.

Okay? I don't want to shatter anybody's piece of mind, but I don't want anybody to trust in doctrine instead of trusting Jesus Christ. Nor do we need any more sin in this world. And I certainly don't want anyone to think they can take the Seal of the Beast, though eschatology is not one of my priorities.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Other way around: If a person lives a life characterized by sinning, i.e. not commensurate with being a "New Creation" (2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15), he has no reason to be confident that he is "sealed and saved". These words are paraphrased from John MacArthur's Saved Without a Doubt. You can check out his website or his book if you want a more detailed exposition.

Okay? I don't want to shatter anybody's piece of mind, but I don't want anybody to trust in doctrine instead of trusting Jesus Christ. Nor do we need any more sin in this world. And I certainly don't want anyone to think they can take the Seal of the Beast, though eschatology is not one of my priorities.

I only follow the teachings of Christ through Paul.
List the verses where Paul teaches 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 requires 'works', performance, no sinning etc

 

[Stumpmaster]

​

 

[Lambano]

I only follow the teachings of Christ through Paul.
List the verses where Paul teaches 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 requires 'works', performance, no sinning etc

The concepts come directly from Paul. Galatians and 1 and 2 Corinthians are undisputably Pauline.

To the best of your power, don't do this kind of stuff, okay? People will get hurt, and it just gives you reason to believe that you're not yet sealed.

 

[ScottA]

Scenario is :-
Scott takes the Rev 14:9-11 MOB tomorrow.
By doing that will Scott go to the Rev 14:9-11 LOF ?
It's an easy YES or NO question :)

Tomorrow is not the right day.

 

[CrowCross]

Perfect response Crow, good to see someone who rightly divides Scripture

Sounds like you're the only one who can rightly divide the scripture....kinda pious aren't you.

 

[ScottA]

I would think a tribulation saint would be wise to it...Today we can "peer" into the future and put together the hints in Revelation...but...when you're actually living in the tribulation, seen the 4 horseman, two witnesses and so forth...watching Revelation unfold in real time..and if you manage to survive to Revelation 13...saw, was part of it and watched 7 "Then the beast was permitted to wage war against the saints and to conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation"....I would think a true Holy Spirit filled believer would know about taking the mark and the repercussion of the skin boils and being chucked into the lake of fire.

This also answers the @PeterAndroz question.

The point of asking the three questions I asked, is that they all are defined as having eternal life, meaning nothing can harm them ever again. "It is finished."

But most simply do not understand what it all means--what the mark of the beast is--and try to imagine what it might be, usually as something future because they have yet to actually figure it out or have it revealed to them. In fact, I could just say what it is right now and most for unbelief would simply deny it and remain in that place of not understanding...preferring to be among those who "did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

 

[ScottA]

Perfect response Crow, good to see someone who rightly divides Scripture

Far from perfect.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Far from perfect.

List the perfect verses where Paul teaches that >>>any<<< believer saved by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 Gospel will be exposed to the Rev 14:9-11 MOTB.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Sounds like you're the only one who can rightly divide the scripture....kinda pious aren't you.

You stated "I won't be here for the mark...I will have been raptured long before it was rolled out.""
Is that not an indication of someone who has 'perfectly rightly divided' ?

 

[Davy]

Davy is sealed & saved by believing & trusting the Gospel - 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30
Now family, friends & other people that Davy knows are rounded up and one by one will be shot dead unless Davy takes the MOB.
What will Davy do ?
Will Davy just watch his brothers, sisters, parents, grand parents, cousins, wife, children, close friends be shot dead one at a time until he takes the MOB or will he take the MOB so his family & friends are spared ?

Relying on some idiotic country preacher's teachings, aren't you? They apparently never covered what Jesus said about that to you...

Matt 10:36-39
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after Me, is not worthy of Me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for My sake shall find it.
KJV

So NO... I won't be taking the mark of the beast, regardless.

And you sound just like one of Christ's enemies with your idea, which plays like some stupid Hollywood vengeance movie! What did God say about vengeance??

 

[Davy]

Perfect response Crow, good to see someone who rightly divides Scripture

Certainly not you.

There is no such thing as a Pre-tribulational Rapture written anywhere in God's Word. Men's doctrines have to be created to form that false doctrine in order to fool deceived brethren like yourself. Christ's Church WILL GO THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION.


WHEN does Lord Jesus say in the following that He will come to gather His saints, His Church??

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV


And WHEN did Apostle Paul show the time of Jesus' coming to gather His Church per the following?

1 Thess 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV

Those pushing the Pre-trib Rapture Theory are listening to charlatans of the devil's children. They go directly... AGAINST what Lord Jesus Christ and Apostle Paul both showed WHEN Jesus comes to gather His faithful Church, AFTER... the tribulation.