Eph 1:13 sealed & saved yet still go to lake of fire ???

[CrowCross]

The point of asking the three questions I asked, is that they all are defined as having eternal life, meaning nothing can harm them ever again. "It is finished."

But most simply do not understand what it all means--what the mark of the beast is--and try to imagine what it might be, usually as something future because they have yet to actually figure it out or have it revealed to them. In fact, I could just say what it is right now and most for unbelief would simply deny it and remain in that place of not understanding...preferring to be among those who "did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

There are some the say the mark genetically changes your DNA to the point you are no longer "human" and no longer savable. I don't even know if that is possible.

My point was that if you're a christian...become one during the tribulation I would think you know what's going on and the only way you'll take the mark is if you are held down and physically forced. If that is how the mark is delivered and how you received it I don't think God going to send you to hell for having it forced upon you.

 

[CrowCross]

You stated "I won't be here for the mark...I will have been raptured long before it was rolled out.""
Is that not an indication of someone who has 'perfectly rightly divided' ?

Yes. It is one of many examples.

 

[CrowCross]

WHEN does Lord Jesus say in the following that He will come to gather His saints, His Church??

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

Yes, that verse is the second time end to trib coming of Jesus. The Zech 14 coming.
But it is not the topic of discussion.

 

[ScottA]

List the perfect verses where Paul teaches that >>>any<<< believer saved by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 Gospel will be exposed to the Rev 14:9-11 MOTB.

No.

 

[CrowCross]

List the perfect verses where Paul teaches that >>>any<<< believer saved by the 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 Gospel will be exposed to the Rev 14:9-11 MOTB.

Peter, if you find yourself faced with the mark...knowing what you know as a christian, will you take it?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I won't be here for the mark...I will have been raptured long before it was rolled out.

Amen!: God's Great GRACE Departure!

------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[ScottA]

My point was that if you're a christian...become one during the tribulation I would think you know what's going on and the only way you'll take the mark is if you are held down and physically forced. If that is how the mark is delivered and how you received it I don't think God going to send you to hell for having it forced upon you.

That is a good assumption.

The passage and reference of the mark of the beast, refers to we who are in the valley of decision (on earth) when God pours out His spirit upon all flesh. In times past, before Pentecost, the valley of decision (where our freewill eternal fate decision is revealed) was unto death; some then going to eternal life in Christ, some eternal damnation. But many of these times after Pentecost, God has chosen to decide and serve and reign with Him until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled, while still others, many also, are thrown into the lake of fire--which is as if "Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths." In other words, their time remaining in this world is as walking, talking dead, ending in damnation. Comparatively. Actually...even during that remaining time, if one could see into the soul.

The time of all this occurring began, as I said, at Pentecost. But the order and declaration came from Christ when He asked His disciples, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” (This is the decision we all make, where with the knowledge of Christ, or by the "invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made.") And Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Then Jesus declared the order by which all would be judged beginning at Pentecost, saying, "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." After which, many went the way of following and building a church by "flesh and blood", and few to build His actual church by what came thereafter from the Father in spirit. The end of which, Jesus also declared would be, "unto the end of the age"--that being the church age, and the times of the gentiles.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In an Australian forum that I read from time to time this very same question was asked yet no-one was willing to answer.
Assuming the 'mark of the beast' is official as of next month,
If we today who are Eph 1:13 saved & sealed take the 'mark of the beast' will we go to the 'lake of fire' ?

no

 

[CrowCross]

That is a good assumption.

The passage and reference of the mark of the beast, refers to we who are in the valley of decision (on earth) when God pours out His spirit upon all flesh. In times past, before Pentecost, the valley of decision (where our freewill eternal fate decision is revealed) was unto death; some then going to eternal life in Christ, some eternal damnation. But many of these times after Pentecost, God has chosen to decide and serve and reign with Him until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled, while still others, many also, are thrown into the lake of fire--which is as if "Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet, Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths." In other words, their time remaining in this world is as walking, talking dead, ending in damnation. Comparatively. Actually...even during that remaining time, if one could see into the soul.

The time of all this occurring began, as I said, at Pentecost. But the order and declaration came from Christ when He asked His disciples, "Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?” (This is the decision we all make, where with the knowledge of Christ, or by the "invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made.") And Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Then Jesus declared the order by which all would be judged beginning at Pentecost, saying, "flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven." After which, many went the way of following and building a church by "flesh and blood", and few to build His actual church by what came thereafter from the Father in spirit. The end of which, Jesus also declared would be, "unto the end of the age"--that being the church age, and the times of the gentiles.

The problem I have with this mark of the beast you propose is it doesn't fit the description of the mark of the beast in Revelation.
Those who didn't take this mark you proposed can still buy and sell.
Those that took this mark you proposed didn't come down with boils.

 

[ScottA]

The problem I have with this mark of the beast you propose is it doesn't fit the description of the mark of the beast in Revelation.
Those who didn't take this mark you proposed can still buy and sell.
Those that took this mark you proposed didn't come down with boils.

Yes, and this has been the stumbling block for many. But it is spiritual language.

What did Christ pay, taxes or the penalty for salvation for all mankind? Both. But men have only considered the language of Revelation to mean buy and sell worldly commerce.

And boils...what is a boil but an infection oozing poison? Would this not perfectly describe those spreading the poison of false doctrines and "destructive heresies?" It would, and it does!

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, and this has been the stumbling block for many. But it is spiritual language.

What did Christ pay, taxes or the penalty for salvation for all mankind? Both. But men have only considered the language of Revelation to mean buy and sell worldly commerce.

And boils...what is a boil but an infection oozing poison? Would this not perfectly describe those spreading the poison of false doctrines and "destructive heresies?" It would, and it does!

Revelation speaks ion worldly terms...that is ALL of mankind living on the planet. Your preterist scenario lacks this detail.

Understanding the future mark of the beast isn't a stumbling block. Perhaps you stumble over it..but I don't.

 

[ScottA]

Revelation speaks ion worldly terms...that is ALL of mankind living on the planet. Your preterist scenario lacks this detail.

Understanding the future mark of the beast isn't a stumbling block. Perhaps you stumble over it..but I don't.

Fine then, I leave you to it.

 

[CrowCross]

Fine then, I leave you to it.

No problem.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Relying on some idiotic country preacher's teachings, aren't you? They apparently never covered what Jesus said about that to you...

Matt 10:36-39
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after Me, is not worthy of Me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for My sake shall find it.
KJV

So NO... I won't be taking the mark of the beast, regardless.

And you sound just like one of Christ's enemies with your idea, which plays like some stupid Hollywood vengeance movie! What did God say about vengeance??

Davy boy, so angry & childish, why not try to discuss differences politely ?

 

[PeterAndroz]

Peter, if you find yourself faced with the mark...knowing what you know as a christian, will you take it?

Firstly, thank you for a polite response & question.
Numbers 11:11-15, Exod 32:32 Moses offered to die to save others.
"""""".knowing what you know as a christian, will you take it?""""
If ALL your friends, family, people known to you were gathered then one by one executed until you took the mark, would you still refuse to take it ?

 

[Davy]

Davy boy, so angry & childish, why not try to discuss differences politely ?

Oh... you deserve a lot more rebuke than what I can give for posting such a negative anti-Christian theme, and especially when you should have known what I showed you what Jesus said about it.

 

[CrowCross]

Firstly, thank you for a polite response & question.
Numbers 11:11-15, Exod 32:32 Moses offered to die to save others.
"""""".knowing what you know as a christian, will you take it?""""
If ALL your friends, family, people known to you were gathered then one by one executed until you took the mark, would you still refuse to take it ?

As i said in another post...

 

[PeterAndroz]

As i said in another post...

Not sure if that was YES you would let them all die or NO you would take the mark so that they can be saved.

 

[CrowCross]

Not sure if that was YES you would let them all die or NO you would take the mark so that they can be saved.

Saved from what? Getting their heads whacked off or saved from eternal judgement at the white throne?

 

[PeterAndroz]

Saved from what? Getting their heads whacked off or saved from eternal judgement at the white throne?

So CC would refuse the mark and stand by watching ALL his friends, family, people he knows, many who are not believers have their heads whacked off ?