Can we know the day and hour of Jesus' return?

[The Light]

It seems that you have to make a lot of assumptions. I don't think we are going to agree on these matters, so I'll leave it there.

Assumptions? Yes, I assume the Word of God is correct.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Can we know the day and hour of Jesus' return?

The bible says...Matt 24:36
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

I guess that settles it. Right? For many it does.

BUT

We know the tribulation will be for 7 years...or...2,520 days using a 360 day lunar cycle year or 2,555 days using our 365 day calendar.

We also know the tribulation starts when the anti-Christ incorporates the "peace contract"....So why can't we add 2,520 days or 2,555 days from the moment the peace contract is signed? At that point it's pretty much a 50/50 guess as we don't know what number to use.
But, the bible says the peace contract will be broken after 3 1/2 years. That is 1,277 days or 1,260 days after the contract is signed.
Once the antiChrist declares himself to be God on day 1,277 or day 1,260.....all we have to do is add either 1,277 or 1,260 days to which number turned out to be correct.....and show Matt 24:36 has some problems as the day can be predicted.

BUT. Matt 24:36 can't be predicted...

Knowing Jesus return is imminent....I would suggest of that date no one knows when Jesus will return. This would be the date of the pre-tribulation rapture.

One way we can know the return of Jesus...(the first return)...is pre-tribulation is the mention of what the world will look like when Jesus returns. We know this return isn't speaking about the end of the tribulation because after going through the 7 year tribulation the world will not be rainbows, puppy dogs, butterflies and daisies. People will not be eating and drinking, marrying and being given in marriage, buying and selling, planting and building.
Jesus says the world will look like the days of Noah and Lot when He returns. Those day fit the pre-tribulation description rather than an end of the tribulation world view and economy.

It's amazing just how many people fight against the theology of the pre-tribulation rapture of the church.

One thing about the pre-tribulation rapture is the signs say it's soon....sooner than you think.

No, Jesus' Coming is not Imminent in the sense of Imminency Belief. That is the belief that believes Christ can come "on any day." Nothing about Biblical Imminency suggests that. Christ's Kingdom is viewed as near simply because Christ has already come once, and final judgment follows Eternal Salvation being achieved for us. Rejecting that Salvation leads to Eternal Damnation.

The Kingdom of God is near in the sense we are under threat of judgment at all times--not that Christ could come on any day. The world is constantly in danger of judgmnet, and judgments from God are in fact occurring all the time, although not in its final sense.

We can know when the Reign of Antichrist takes place, but we are not to know precisely how long it will be before this event takes place. That's because we are discouraged from anticipating times and seasons--in its place we are to focus on Christian ministry or testimonial. The times will take care of themselves. There are antichrists in every generation that we have to deal with, expose, and warn against.

The 1260 days of Antichrist's Reign does not tell us the exact day and hour of Christ's Return. That is just the period in which Antichrist rules supreme, unopposed. "Who can reist him?" At some point, however, the kings of the East appear to resist him, and a perhaps months long process begins in which nations are mobilized to Armageddon in Israel.

So no, we don't know the exact day and hour. But yes, we can know, as Christians, when the Antichrist has taken power. He will rule among 10 European nations, I believe, and oppose strongly the Christian message.

 

[CrowCross]

The 1260 days of Antichrist's Reign does not tell us the exact day and hour of Christ's Return.

That is because Jesus returns for His bride prior to that event.

The point is if we know through experience when the reign of the Antichrist begins...all we gotta do is add 1260 days to figure out when Jesus physically come to earth as seen in Rev 19 and Zech 14.

 

[TribulationSigns]

That is because Jesus returns for His bride prior to that event.

The point is if we know through experience when the reign of the Antichrist begins...all we gotta do is add 1260 days to figure out when Jesus physically come to earth as seen in Rev 19 and Zech 14.

Where does it say in Scripture that you can simple ass 1,260 literal day to "figure out when Jesus Physically come to Earth".
Looks like another speculation on your part without Biblical support whatsoever!

 

[CrowCross]

Where does it say in Scripture that you can simple ass 1,260 literal day to "figure out when Jesus Physically come to Earth".
Looks like another speculation on your part without Biblical support whatsoever!

It appears to be a tad bit to complicated for you to understand.

 

[TribulationSigns]

It appears to be a tad bit to complicated for you to understand.

LOL. That response does not answer the challenge; it only avoids it. If my understanding is supposedly “too complicated,” then it should be easy for you to provide the actual Scripture that clearly states a literal seven-year tribulation and a literal 3½-year period. LOL!

The burden of proof is STILL on you. I am asking a simple question: Where does the Scripture say that Revelation’s symbolic numbers must be converted into a future literal calendar? Where does Scripture explicitly say that the “1,260 days,” “42 months,” or “time, times, and half a time” refer to a future 3½-year tribulation period?

Daniel 9:24–27 does not mention a “tribulation period.” Matthew 24 does not mention a seven-year period. Revelation does not say, “this represents a future seven-year timeline.” Those connections are interpretations imposed onto the text, not statements made by the text itself.

If your position is biblical, then demonstrate it from Scripture instead of dismissing the question. A doctrine is not proven by saying others cannot understand it; it is proven by showing where the Word of God actually teaches it. Clearly you are not a bible teacher at all!

The ball STILL remains in your court. Provide the verses that explicitly teach a literal seven-year tribulation and a literal 3½-year period, or acknowledge that this is a theological system built from assumptions rather than a clear statement of Scripture.

Selah!

 

[CrowCross]

LOL. That response does not answer the challenge; it only avoids it. If my understanding is supposedly “too complicated,” then it should be easy for you to provide the actual Scripture that clearly states a literal seven-year tribulation and a literal 3½-year period. LOL!

The burden of proof is STILL on you. I am asking a simple question: Where does the Scripture say that Revelation’s symbolic numbers must be converted into a future literal calendar? Where does Scripture explicitly say that the “1,260 days,” “42 months,” or “time, times, and half a time” refer to a future 3½-year tribulation period?

Daniel 9:24–27 does not mention a “tribulation period.” Matthew 24 does not mention a seven-year period. Revelation does not say, “this represents a future seven-year timeline.” Those connections are interpretations imposed onto the text, not statements made by the text itself.

If your position is biblical, then demonstrate it from Scripture instead of dismissing the question. A doctrine is not proven by saying others cannot understand it; it is proven by showing where the Word of God actually teaches it. Clearly you are not a bible teacher at all!

The ball STILL remains in your court. Provide the verses that explicitly teach a literal seven-year tribulation and a literal 3½-year period, or acknowledge that this is a theological system built from assumptions rather than a clear statement of Scripture.

Selah!

NEXT

 

[TribulationSigns]

NEXT

Clearly not a bible student.

 

[CrowCross]

Clearly not a bible student.

You don't seem to get it....the trib is 7 years. Everyone knows the trib is 7 years. I've shown you how the trib is seven years. The math has been done for you.
The verses have been presented...what's next you'll want to argue Jesus isn't God?

BTW...you "clearly" are a bible student"...yes???

 

[TribulationSigns]

You don't seem to get it....the trib is 7 years.

According to what Scripture? This is your speculation.

Everyone knows the trib is 7 years.

Ha. Here is a valuable lesson for you to learn: Consensus is not the arbiter of Truth. Selah.

I've shown you how the trib is seven years.

Where? Show me where you shown that to me.

The math has been done for you.

Whose math? Yours or God?

The verses have been presented

Where have you presented to me directly when I asked for it?

...what's next you'll want to argue Jesus isn't God?

Why do you assume that? Do you realize that the assumption is the mother of all errors.

BTW...you "clearly" are a bible student"...yes???

The Lord Judge. I am comfortable that that!

 

[CrowCross]

According to what Scripture? This is your speculation.



Ha. Here is a valuable lesson for you to learn: Consensus is not the arbiter of Truth. Selah.



Where? Show me where you shown that to me.



Whose math? Yours or God?



Where have you presented to me directly when I asked for it?



Why do you assume that? Do you realize that the assumption is the mother of all errors.



View attachment 87874
The Lord Judge. I am comfortable that that!

As I said....NEXT.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If you know when the trib starts...just do the math. Period.

This is why the reference has to be to the pre-trib rapture.

It has to be a post-trib rapture because Jesus said so (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27). This shows that your math is faulty.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Indeed. The word "tribulation" occurs 21 times in the New Testament (NKJV). In many of the verses containing the word, it is taught that Christians go through tribulation. For example, Jesus told the disciples:

Jhn_16:33 (NKJV) These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world."

Look how John refers to himself and his readers in Revelation 1:

Rev_1:9 (NKJV) I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation also talks of the company of the redeemed, that "multitude which no man can number, as those who came out of the great tribulation, not those who escaped the great tribulation by being raptured before it happened:

(Rev 7:9-17 NKJV) After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!" All the angels stood around the throne and the elders and the four living creatures, and fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying: "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom, Thanksgiving and honor and power and might, Be to our God forever and ever. Amen." Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, "Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?" And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them. They shall neither hunger anymore nor thirst anymore; the sun shall not strike them, nor any heat; for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

Right. Also...

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[CrowCross]

It has to be a post-trib rapture because Jesus said so (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27). This shows that your math is faulty.

You do know Jesus returns twice????
First time at the rapture then a second in the verses you present.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You do know Jesus returns twice????

I know that He will return once in the future, as scripture teaches. No one believed what you do until the 1800s. Just think about that.

so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

He will appear a second time. Never a third time.

First time at the rapture then a second in the verses you present.

Wrong.

 

[CrowCross]

I know that He will return once in the future, as scripture teaches. No one believed what you do until the 1800s. Just think about that.

I have. Lots. Darby didn't invent the rapture. Would you like to see where people before Darby believed in a "rapture"...

Click here. it will take you to this article..

A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE RAPTURE
Tom’s Perspectives
by Thomas Ice
One of the most often cited objections to pretribulationism is that it is a new
teaching in church history having only come on the scene in the 1830s. It is often
argued that if the pre-trib rapture were biblical then it would have been taught earlier
and throughout church history. In the last decade, individuals have found a number
of pre-1830 references to a pre-trib rapture. Here is a summary of that evidence.

Check it out then get back to me.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have. Lots. Darby didn't invent the rapture. Would you like to see where people before Darby believed in a "rapture"...

Click here. it will take you to this article..

A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE RAPTURE
Tom’s Perspectives
by Thomas Ice
One of the most often cited objections to pretribulationism is that it is a new
teaching in church history having only come on the scene in the 1830s. It is often
argued that if the pre-trib rapture were biblical then it would have been taught earlier
and throughout church history. In the last decade, individuals have found a number
of pre-1830 references to a pre-trib rapture. Here is a summary of that evidence.

Check it out then get back to me.

I have no interest in that. I don't believe that Thomas Ice has any idea of what he's talking about. I challenge you to show me anything at all written by anyone at all before the 1800s that promotes a pre-trib rapture. Anything written by one of the early church fathers or anyone else before the 1800s. If Thomas Ice shared such a thing, then post it here. I have no interest in reading that article because I'm here talking to you, not to Thomas Ice.

 

[TribulationSigns]

As I said....NEXT.

Clearly this means you admit that you cannot provide Scripture when I asked.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I have. Lots. Darby didn't invent the rapture.

He did.

by Thomas Ice

False prophet with unbiblical teaching that should be rejected because it conflicts with the plain teaching of Scripture, eg. Matthew 24:29-31.

NEXT.​

 

[CrowCross]

Right. Also...

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Of course we will see tribulation...always. That's what Jesus tells us.
There is also the time of Jacobs trouble. I assume you know what that is.