Christianity is NOT Derived From Judaism

[Soyeong]

What don't you understand about Apostle Paul declaring that God gave Abraham The Gospel Faith BY PROMISE first, before the giving of the law?

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which is the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), and which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5).

In Genesis 18:19, God knew Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in His way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bing to him all that He has promised. In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiply Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to His children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth shall be blessed because he heard God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their hearts by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, and because they did that in obedience to the Torah.

In Psalm 119:1-3, the Torah is how the children of Abraham know how to blessed by walking in God's way, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doers of the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations in accordance with inheriting the promise through faith is by turning the nations from their wickedness and by teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in His way in obedience to the Torah in accordance with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace.

 

[amigo de christo]

These Pre-Date the second Temple.
They also Pre-Date the first Temple.
They also Pre-Date Abraham

Christianity Pre-Dates Judaism, because CHRIST means MESSIAH and MESSIAH was Prophesied FIRST by GOD

and if any wants to see this let them open bible and begin in genesis .
AND SEE what GOD clothed man with . For without the shedding of blood there is NO REMISSION for sins .
Ever wonder why EVEN the first born abel Was a bringing sacfices of sheep unto GOD .
ALL points to THE CHRIST of GOD , UNTO GOD as the only savoir and redeemer of humanity .
And if they reject HIS CHRIST , they REJECT THE ONE TRUE GOD . And much weeping will be heard by
all who rejected THE CHRIST of GOD on judg ment day . BUT much praises with loads of thanksgivings
and crowns being tossed at the FEET of CHRIST by SHEEP on JESUS DAY .
cause we sheep KNOW it was SOLEY BY HIM we were saved and redeemed and reconciled to GOD and have eternal life .
FOR HE is THE TRUTH , THE WAY and THE LIFE and none can come to the FATHER but BY HIM .
Now to the trenches david f or we have much work to do in this last hour upon earth .

 

[Lambano]

You and anyone else pushing the judeo-Christian Narrative is ignorant or a liar.

No. If you're worshipping the Jewish God and following a Jewish Messiah and reading the Hebrew scriptures and practicing sacraments derived from Jewish rituals, your religion is derived from Judaism. That's an historical fact, and there is no way around it.

Are you too proud to admit you're related to "those people"? You're treating the Jews the same way they treated their cousins the Samaritans. Jesus showed you a better way. Now stop it. Repent!

 

[Lambano]

Afraid not. Judaism was a corruption that began by the crept in unawares among the tribe of Judah mainly, like the Kenites, one of the nations of Canaan that became Israel's scribes.

None of that matters. If you're worshipping the Jewish God and following a Jewish Messiah and reading the Hebrew scriptures and practicing sacraments derived from Jewish rituals, your religion is derived from Judaism. That is a historical fact, and nothing changes it.

Do you think you're too good to associate with those sinners and tax collectors like the Jews? You're doing just what they did. Jesus showed you a better way. Now stop it. Repent of your pride and your prejudices!

 

[Marvelloustime]

and if any wants to see this let them open bible and begin in genesis .
AND SEE what GOD clothed man with . For without the shedding of blood there is NO REMISSION for sins .
Ever wonder why EVEN the first born abel Was a bringing sacfices of sheep unto GOD .
ALL points to THE CHRIST of GOD , UNTO GOD as the only savoir and redeemer of humanity .
And if they reject HIS CHRIST , they REJECT THE ONE TRUE GOD . And much weeping will be heard by
all who rejected THE CHRIST of GOD on judg ment day . BUT much praises with loads of thanksgivings
and crowns being tossed at the FEET of CHRIST by SHEEP on JESUS DAY .
cause we sheep KNOW it was SOLEY BY HIM we were saved and redeemed and reconciled to GOD and have eternal life .
FOR HE is THE TRUTH , THE WAY and THE LIFE and none can come to the FATHER but BY HIM .
Now to the trenches david f or we have much work to do in this last hour upon earth .

@amigo de christo

 

[Davy]

I understand that.
The Abrahamic Promises took up a couple months in college.
What do you think they are?

Apostle Paul mentions both ideas in Galatians 3, God's Promise by Faith, which is about The Gospel first given through Abraham, and also God's promises to Abraham and the seed, which Paul made a distinction.

Gal 3:14
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

That is the Promise by Faith that I have been talking about. It is The Gospel Faith, and those in Christ Jesus today have believed that SAME Promise by Faith that Abraham believed. This is why Paul said those of Faith have become the children of Abraham, because Abraham was given and believed in that "promise of the Spirit through faith". That Promise is distinct from the other promises God gave Abraham and the seed, so I'm not going to go there, because it mean leaving the subject of The Gospel first preached to Abraham as the main Promise Paul spoke of in Galatians 3.

 

[Grailhunter]

Apostle Paul mentions both ideas in Galatians 3, God's Promise by Faith, which is about The Gospel first given through Abraham, and also God's promises to Abraham and the seed, which Paul made a distinction.

Gal 3:14
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

That is the Promise by Faith that I have been talking about. It is The Gospel Faith, and those in Christ Jesus today have believed that SAME Promise by Faith that Abraham believed. This is why Paul said those of Faith have become the children of Abraham, because Abraham was given and believed in that "promise of the Spirit through faith". That Promise is distinct from the other promises God gave Abraham and the seed, so I'm not going to go there, because it mean leaving the subject of The Gospel first preached to Abraham as the main Promise Paul spoke of in Galatians 3.

Again and again....
I was talking about the fact that the word promise does not occur in the Old Testament.
There was never a question that those in the New Testament considered what Yahweh said to Abraham were promises.
Now do you know what the said "Abrahamic promise" were?

 

[Davy]

What do you call the religion that is based on following the Torah?

The old covenant.

The idea of 'religion' is man's terminology. When Apostle Paul used it that was to point to men's working, not God's.

 

[Davy]

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom/Grace, ....

That thinking is error.

The Promise by Faith, The Gospel, is by FAITH only, and not by the law (Torah, or first five books of Moses). The Promise by Faith was first given through Abraham; Torah was given 430 years later through Moses. Thus there is a major difference between the old covenant, and The New Covenant Jesus Christ...

Heb 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people:
KJV

The Blessing of Abraham given also to the Gentiles, by Faith, is about God putting His laws into our hearts and minds by His Promise of The Spirit, i.e., The Holy Spirit. That is what Lord Jesus Christ accomplished on His cross, offering all that believe the remission of sins unto everlasting life. This Torah could not do, nor ever do, as Apostle Paul so declares...

Gal 3:2-5
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth He it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
KJV

Gal 3:11-14
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

Gal 3:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

 

[Davy]

None of that matters. If you're worshipping the Jewish God and following a Jewish Messiah and reading the Hebrew scriptures and practicing sacraments derived from Jewish rituals, your religion is derived from Judaism. That is a historical fact, and nothing changes it.

Do you think you're too good to associate with those sinners and tax collectors like the Jews? You're doing just what they did. Jesus showed you a better way. Now stop it. Repent of your pride and your prejudices!

You've gone off the table with that. What I have been doing is pointing to the ORIGIN of where MEN'S DOCTRINES ORIGINATE, and that includes among my Christian brethren. And how I understand that is because GOD wrote about it in HIS WORD, thus He wants us to KNOW ABOUT IT.

Jude 3-4
3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
KJV

That warning wasn't written so those in Christ can sit on their laurels and just pray Christ's enemies won't work against them. No, for God warned His faithful in His Word about it so as to make His faithful AWARE, and prevent that creeping in among HIS congregation.

Judg 2:1-3
2 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, "I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break My covenant with you.
2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed My voice: why have ye done this?
3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be as thorns in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
KJV

Judg 2:11-13
11 And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and served Baalim:
12 And they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, Which brought them out of the land of Egypt, and followed other gods, of the gods of the people that were round about them, and bowed themselves unto them, and provoked the LORD to anger.
13 And they forsook the LORD, and served Baal and Ashtaroth.
KJV

Judg 2:20-22
20 And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel; and He said, "Because that this people hath transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers, and have not hearkened unto My voice;
21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:
22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not."
KJV

 

[Davy]

Again and again....
I was talking about the fact that the word promise does not occur in the Old Testament.
There was never a question that those in the New Testament considered what Yahweh said to Abraham were promises.
Now do you know what the said "Abrahamic promise" were?

Like I said, I am not going to go into the 'other' blessings that God gave to Abraham by promise. And yes, of course I know what those are too, and probably some things about them as to where they went when they left Jerusalem ending with Zedekiah, king of Judah, that you don't... know.

 

[Grailhunter]

Like I said, I am not going to go into the 'other' blessings that God gave to Abraham by promise. And yes, of course I know what those are too, and probably some things about them as to where they went when they left Jerusalem ending with Zedekiah, king of Judah, that you don't... know.

What do you think I do not know? LOL

 

[Soyeong]

The old covenant.

The idea of 'religion' is man's terminology. When Apostle Paul used it that was to point to men's working, not God's.

Do you consider each of God's covenants to be a a different religion? What do you call the religion that is based on following the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

James 1:26 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

That thinking is error.

The Promise by Faith, The Gospel, is by FAITH only, and not by the law (Torah, or first five books of Moses). The Promise by Faith was first given through Abraham; Torah was given 430 years later through Moses. Thus there is a major difference between the old covenant, and The New Covenant Jesus Christ...

We embody our faith through our works, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works or with the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11 all being examples of works, so the significance of our obedience to the Torah is not that it is part of something that we are required to have done first in order to earn our salvation as the result, but rather the significance is that it is the way to have faith and it is by that faith alone that we are being saved. While the promise is inherited through faith and not earned as the result of our works, the content of what is promised is to be a blessing to the nations through turning them from their wickedness and by teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to the Torah (Acts 3:25-26). In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so while there are differences between in at the Mosaic Covenant, the difference is not in regard to following the Torah.

Heb 8:10
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put My laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to Me a people:
KJV

The Blessing of Abraham given also to the Gentiles, by Faith, is about God putting His laws into our hearts and minds by His Promise of The Spirit, i.e., The Holy Spirit. That is what Lord Jesus Christ accomplished on His cross, offering all that believe the remission of sins unto everlasting life. This Torah could not do, nor ever do, as Apostle Paul so declares...

Hebrews 8:10 is quoting Jeremiah 31:33. Do you have faith in God to guide you in how to rightly live through the Torah? It is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God but not in His instructions. The Spirit also has the role of leading us to obey the Torah (Ezekiel 36:26-27). The way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Titus 2:14, Acts 21:20). In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments of the Torah.

Gal 3:2-5
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth He it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
KJV

The fact that God did not give the Torah as a way of receiving the Spirit does not mean that we are not required to obey it for the reasons for which it was given. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit is given to those who obey God. In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Torah.

Gal 3:11-14
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
KJV

Do you think that God is a trustworthy giver of trustworthy instructions or an untrustworthy giver of untrustworthy instructions?

Gal 3:21-22
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
KJV

The fact that the Torah was not given as a way to earn our righteousness or eternal life as the result does not mean that our righteousness and eternal life do not required us to be a doer of of the Torah for the reasons for which it was given (Romans 2:13, Luke 10:25-28). In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, so the Bible does not present faith in Jesus as being an alternative to obeying God's commandments, but rather obeying God's commandments is the way to have faith in Jesus.

 

[Jack]

Hebrews 8:13
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I would say I mostly disagree with this thread, but get it if you want to talk about Jesus being the Foundation, Acts 15, saint Paul etc. But largely Gnostics like Marcion really, really agreed with the premise and that is the problem! You got severe problems if you want distance Christianity from it's immediate context!

 

[Davy]

Do you consider each of God's covenants to be a a different religion? What do you call the religion that is based on following the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

You need to re-read what I said about religion, that such labels are man's working, not God's. Christianity is NOT a religion. It is God's Truth. And it extends back to The Old Testament even before the law was given. Christ was ordained to die on the cross and believers on Him prior to the foundation of the world...

Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
KJV

Religion has to do with men's doctrines, the various doctrines of the many different denominations in Christianity, and outside of Christianity the history of men's various spiritual attempts to understand his origin and a Creator.

If you do not understand this difference, then you will always be subjecting yourself to what man's traditions interpret what God said, instead of understanding what God says directly by The Holy Spirit.

James 1:26 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

The Greek word for "religion" in James 1:26 actually means 'worshipping'. It does not point to a system, like you are trying to make it sound like. Thus it actually means, "Worship that is pure...".

 

[Davy]

What do you think I do not know? LOL

That God moved... the majority of His Blessings and Promises away from Jerusalem at the demise of king Zedekiah's reign by Nebuchadnezzar's destruction of Solomon's temple and Jerusalem, and then also later after the Babylon return when the Romans in 70 A.D. destroyed the 2nd temple and Jerusalem again. To this day, there has never been a king of Judah of the house of David to sit upon a throne in Jerusalem, Zedekiah being the last one. And since 70 A.D. there has been no Jewish temple standing there in Jerusalem, but only the remaining stones of the Western Wall which the Jews call the Wailing Wall, and they pray at.

Yet God made His promises and blessings to be for Israel, for ever, and even to David that there would never fail one of his seed to sit upon His throne unto all... generations.

 

[Davy]

We embody our faith through our works, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works or with the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11 all being examples of works, so the significance of our obedience to the Torah is not that it is part of something that we are required to have done first in order to earn our salvation as the result, but rather the significance is that it is the way to have faith and it is by that faith alone that we are being saved. While the promise is inherited through faith and not earned as the result of our works, the content of what is promised is to be a blessing to the nations through turning them from their wickedness and by teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to the Torah (Acts 3:25-26). In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so while there are differences between in at the Mosaic Covenant, the difference is not in regard to following the Torah.

You really need to read your New Testament more...

Rom 4:3-16
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him That justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
KJV


What is the law for then? It is for the ungodly and sinner, like Apostle Paul said in 1 Timothy 1.

But the law it is not... what saves us. Only by God's Grace, unmerited favor, are we saved through Faith on Jesus Christ. We believe The Gospel just as Abraham believed, and it was counted as righteousness, and that without works.

Will the true believer have works to go with their Faith like Apostle James said? Yes, of course. But those works aren't what saves us. The unbeliever who is almost perfect in keeping God's laws, and has many good works, still won't be saved without Faith on Jesus Christ.

 

[Soyeong]

You need to re-read what I said about religion, that such labels are man's working, not God's.

All English words are man-made, but that does not mean that they do not refer to things that are real. "Religion" is by definition "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs." So what do you call the set of those beliefs in regard to worshipping the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?

Christianity is NOT a religion. It is God's Truth. And it extends back to The Old Testament even before the law was given. Christ was ordained to die on the cross and believers on Him prior to the foundation of the world...

Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
KJV

Christianity is a religion by definition. The Torah is truth (Psalm 119:142) and Jesus embodied the Torah by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to it, so he is the truth (John 14:6), but mainstream Christianity is opposed to following Christ's example of obedience to it. In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of believing the Gospel message. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in the Gospel that Jesus spent his ministry teaching and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah (Acts 21:20), but again mainstream Christianity is opposed to this.

Religion has to do with men's doctrines, the various doctrines of the many different denominations in Christianity, and outside of Christianity the history of men's various spiritual attempts to understand his origin and a Creator.

If you do not understand this difference, then you will always be subjecting yourself to what man's traditions interpret what God said, instead of understanding what God says directly by The Holy Spirit.

There is nothing in the definition of "religion" that specifies that it is in regard to men's doctrines. In Deuteronomy 17:8-13, it gives authority to priests and judges to make rulings about how to correctly obey the Torah that the people were obligated to obey, so if we go by what is written, then we are obligated to follow traditions of men.

The Greek word for "religion" in James 1:26 actually means 'worshipping'. It does not point to a system, like you are trying to make it sound like. Thus it actually means, "Worship that is pure...".

What do you call the set of instructions that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has given for how to worship Him?

 

[Soyeong]

You really need to read your New Testament more...

Rom 4:3-16
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him That justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
10 How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.
11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:
12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
KJV

Where did I say anything that wasn't in accordance with those verses?

What is the law for then? It is for the ungodly and sinner, like Apostle Paul said in 1 Timothy 1.

Someone who abuses 1 Timothy 1 in order to justify their freedom to be an ungodly sinner thereby becomes someone that the Law of God is for.

But the law it is not... what saves us. Only by God's Grace, unmerited favor, are we saved through Faith on Jesus Christ. We believe The Gospel just as Abraham believed, and it was counted as righteousness, and that without works.

Will the true believer have works to go with their Faith like Apostle James said? Yes, of course. But those works aren't what saves us. The unbeliever who is almost perfect in keeping God's laws, and has many good works, still won't be saved without Faith on Jesus Christ.

Jesus saves us from our sin and sin is the transgression of of the Law of God, so while we can't save ourselves as even as the result of having perfect obedience, Jesus graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of the Law of God is nevertheless the way that he is saving us. In Psalm 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith in Christ alone.

The Gospel that Abraham believed in accordance with the promise call for obedience to the Torah (Matthew 4:15-23, Acts 3:25-26, Galatians 3:8, Genesis 12:1-5, Genesis 18:19, Genesis 26:4-5). While it is true that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Torah because he believed God (Genesis 18:19), and that he obeyed the command to offer Isaac because he believed God (Hebrews 11:17), so while it is true that Abraham was declared righteous by faith alone apart from works done in order to earn it as the result, it is false that he was declared righteous by faith alone apart from being a doer of righteous works.