Christianity is NOT Derived From Judaism

[Jack]

Did not! Others called Him a Jew.

Make that "King of the Jews". Already quoted one NT verse that you ignored.

Matthew 2:2
2 saying, "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him."

You won't find anywhere written where Jesus said He was king of the Jews.

Mark 15:2
2 Then Pilate asked Him, "Are You the King of the Jews?" He answered and said to him, "It is as you say."

Lord Jesus Christ is KING of ISRAEL, and head of The Church.

Yes indeed!

The Jews don't even represent all of the 12 tribes of Israel, but those of the southern "kingdom of Judah" only that remained in the holy land when God scattered the northern ten tribes out of the land first, among the Gentiles, and their having lost their heritage as part of Israel.

Then why will Jesus return to fight for Israel in the Land of the Bible. Israel has over 7 MILLION Jews!

 

[Jack]

You can't even rightly divide the Scriptures according to their timelines. That Ezekiel 11 gathering is STILL FUTURE and only will happen when Jesus returns. And it will involve the BELIEVING REMNANT of the Jews being gathered by Him, which are part of His Church.

Let's try again.

Ezekiel 11:17-20
17 Therefore say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel." '

And He did!

18 And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there.
19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

 

[Soyeong]

I agree they need God’s grace to be saved but what I’m saying is that unbelievers are not under the covenant of grace which means that if they stay that way they will be judged by the law.

In Psalm 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, which means that the Mosaic Covenant is a covenant of grace and law. Likewise, Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Torah is to graciously teaching us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life, and which again means that the Mosaic Covenant was a covenant of grace and law. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so it is also a covenant of grace and law along with all of God's other covenants.

 

[IndianaRob]

I don't interpret what Paul said that way. I interpret the fulness of the Gentiles to mean when during this present world The Gospel being accepted by the Gentiles is complete, and means it will be the day of Christ's future return.

At the end of Zechariah 12 it says the families of Israel will mourn for Him, meaning when He returns. In Luke 23 Jesus quoted the "Blessed are the barren..." metaphor from Isaiah 54 to those daughters of Jerusalem who wept for Him when He was bearing His cross to be crucified. He showed the deceived Jews will be repeating that "Blessed are the barren..." about those of His saints that were faithful and waited on Him to come. And then they shall wish for the mountains and the hills to fall on them, which is put for their feeling shame at having rejected Him.

Thus Jesus was pointing to 'spiritually blinded' Jews who do love The LORD and have every intention of worshiping Him only. It's just that they were deceived because of the blindness God put upon them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles (and to the Ten Tribes of the "house of Israel" scattered among the Gentiles.) That is why these will feel shame when Jesus does appear to them. As for the 'false Jews' that the devil sowed among Judah (the good wheat in Christ's parable of the tares of the field), they won't feel shame, for they have been against Jesus Christ from the very start working for the devil while hiding among true Judah (see John 8). But these Jesus speaks to below are those deceived Jews that are... actually of the 'seed' of Israel, but God blinded them spiritually.

Luke 23:27-31
27 And there followed Him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented Him.

28 But Jesus turning unto them said, "Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for Me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children.
29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, 'Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck.'
30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, 'Fall on us'; and to the hills, 'Cover us.'"

31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?"
KJV

I understand, Davy. I come from a dispensationalist background, but I left that many years ago, so this one we simply disagree.

 

[WitnessX]

The Mishnah and Talmud are just the Rabbi's interpretations on how Torah, the Writings, and the Prophets should be applied to real life. Baptists, Pentecostals, Methodists, Catholics, Eastern Orthodox all have their own interpretations of the Old and New Testament writings. As does every Tom, Dick, and Harriet on this forum.

All nonsense, just like the Methodist, catholic, Eastern Orthodox interpretations and additions. You go ahead and keep up the false propaganda. It won’t end well for you.

 

[David in NJ]

In Psalm 119:29, he wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Torah, which means that the Mosaic Covenant is a covenant of grace and law. Likewise, Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the Torah is to graciously teaching us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life, and which again means that the Mosaic Covenant was a covenant of grace and law. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts, so it is also a covenant of grace and law along with all of God's other covenants.

You are missaligning what the LORD said to Moses.

You cannot add the OT to the NT = JESUS said "Don't do it"

What lawslessness was JESUS referring too??? = That which Speaks of HIM and HIS Commandments

Always remember that the 10 Commandments are the "lawlessness" that JESUS Speaks of and those which HE gave to us in the NT

 

[David in NJ]

Some Christians have issues with change but the scriptures are all about change.
Thing changed when Adam and Eve were booted out of paradise.
Things changed between Adam and Eve and Abraham. Abraham effectively started the Yahwist religion.
Things changed between Abraham and Moses and the Mosaic Law.
Things changed when the Temple was built.
Things changed when the Temples were destroyed.
Things changed when the Israelite kingdoms were conquered.
Things changed with the advent of Jewish-Christians
And there was a big change when Paul welcomed Pagans into Christianity. Before that there were Mosaic Laws against any agreement or accord with Pagans. For the Pagans, the Law was kill all that breathed.
The Jews were expecting Elijah to come down in a fiery chariot and introduce the Messiah. (That is why all the questions about Elijah in the New Testament.) They were expecting for the Messiah to be a human warlord king that would take out their oppressors in the Terrible Day of the Lord. This human warlord king would establish his kingdom that would last forever and the Mosaic Law and animal sacrifices would go on forever. None of that happened....so that was a change.
Yeshua said, blessed are the peace makers. And He did not tell the Jews or Christian to rebel against Rome.
The phrase God so love the world does not appear in Old Testament scriptures.
The phrase kill all that breaths would not come out of Yeshua's mouth.
The religion went from God fearing to God loving.
The Mosaic Law does not apply to Christians, that is a change.

Does the Mosaic law apply to Jews?