Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

[ewq1938]

John wrote of "that spirit of antichrist" (singular), of which produces "many antichrists" (plural).

He did not write "spirit" in the verse being discussed.

1Jn_2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Here he compares the future singular AC with the current many AC's. This same singular person is mentioned in the bible by many names and titles. Antichrist is simply the one that is used by Christians the most.

 

[IndianaRob]

Does Scripture teach that the Rev 14:9-11 MOTB happens before the 2 Thess 2:3 "man of sin" is revealed ?
If so, please list the verses so as to help me to understand where I am wrong.

My point is the man of sin is our old man that has been crucified with Christ, not a future antichrist.

 

[PeterAndroz]

My point is the man of sin is our old man that has been crucified with Christ, not a future antichrist.

What verses do you rely on to support that allegorical ? view.
..

 

[Earburner]

You should compare the verse to the surrounding verse first...it about a gathering...it's about the restrainer being removed.

Once again the verse says NOTHING about a departure from faith. It just isn't there. You seem to find other verses that speak about people losing faith and graft 2 Thes 2:3 into that scripture....and in doing so you lose the context of gathering, departing and removing the restrainer that is clearly there.

2 Thes. 2:1 is 2 Thes. 1:10.

Do you not see that all of 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a simultaneous 24 hour event of the destruction of the unsaved in flaming fire and the gathering of the saved up into heaven to be with Lord?

 

[ewq1938]

My point is the man of sin is our old man that has been crucified with Christ, not a future antichrist.

The verses about the man of sin say nothing about him being crucified with Christ. It doesn't match your interpretation.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


That's not at all related to our "old man" being replaced by a new person in Christ. It's clearly a ruler who will claim to be God and is directly related to the time period which happens before the second coming as Paul addresses above.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


He isn't even destroyed until the second coming!

 

[ewq1938]

2 Thes. 2:1 is 2 Thes. 1:10.

Do you not see that all of 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a simultaneous 24 hour event of the destruction of the unsaved in flaming fire and the gathering of the saved up into heaven to be with Lord?

The verse says Jesus is in that fire not that the unsaved are in that fire. There is no second coming passage showing Jesus using fire as a weapon. The only weapon mentioned is a symbolic sword. There is also no passage showing Jesus returning then taking people to heaven.

 

[PeterAndroz]

The verses about the man of sin say nothing about him being crucified with Christ. It doesn't match your interpretation.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


That's not at all related to our "old man" being replaced by a new person in Christ. It's clearly a ruler who will claim to be God and is directly related to the time period which happens before the second coming as Paul addresses above.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


He isn't even destroyed until the second coming!

Symbolizing/allegorizing Scripture is required when the literal fails to support a faulty belief.

 

[IndianaRob]

What verses do you rely on to support that allegorical ? view.
..
View attachment 87957

The old man isn't an allegory it's a real thing and that old man "opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God".

The man of sin is also called the son of perdition. Judas was called the son of perdition also and he was a man who "opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God".

 

[IndianaRob]

The verses about the man of sin say nothing about him being crucified with Christ. It doesn't match your interpretation.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.


That's not at all related to our "old man" being replaced by a new person in Christ. It's clearly a ruler who will claim to be God and is directly related to the time period which happens before the second coming as Paul addresses above.

2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


He isn't even destroyed until the second coming!

Does the old man get destroyed when someone accepts Christ and the day star arises in their hearts?

2 Peter 1:19
have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

2 Thessalonians 2 is about the day of Christ, "the day dawning and the day star arising in our hearts". If it was about the day of the Lord the bible would have said - That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Lord is at hand.

Am I seeing that right?

 

[Earburner]

The verse says Jesus is in that fire not that the unsaved are in that fire. There is no second coming passage showing Jesus using fire as a weapon. The only weapon mentioned is a symbolic sword. There is also no passage showing Jesus returning then taking people to heaven.

Yeah, I know!
ETERNAL Fire consumes everything it comes near to!

Heb. 12:24-29
29 For our God is a consuming [G2654] fire [G4442].

Consuming
Strong's Number - G2654
Greek: καταναλίσκω
Transliteration: katanaliskō
Pronunciation: kat-an-al-is'-ko
Definition: From G2596 and G355; to consume utterly: - consume.
KJV Usage: consume (1x).
Occurs: 1
In verses: 1

Fire
Strong's Number - G4442
Greek: πῦρ
Transliteration: pur
Pronunciation: poor
Definition: A primary word; fire (literally or figuratively specifically lightning): - fiery fire.
KJV Usage: fire (73x), fiery (1x).
Occurs: 74
In verses: 73

 

[CrowCross]

What would you consider completely rolled out? Chip in the body? Digital ID?

What will the actual mark be? Don't know as it's being developed, refined, improved.... Perhaps it's very close to this technology...


The mark is part of the Beast System.
There has to be a way to read it and the data centers hand shake with it. See if you, once you've been verified... have enough CBDC and are allowed to have your digital "cash" tokens moved from one account to another.

 

[CrowCross]

Yes, after the 2 Thess 2:3 "man of sin" has been revealed to the whole world.

The antichrist will be a man of peace..wink, wink...when he first comes on the scene.
He will make or enhance a current "peace" plan or process for the middle east and Israel...I think people will love the guy.

Rev 6: 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse! And its rider had a bow, and a crown was given to him, and he came out conquering, and to conquer.

He conquerers with a bow....notice no arrows.

 

[CrowCross]

2 Thes. 2:1 is 2 Thes. 1:10.

Do you not see that all of 2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a simultaneous 24 hour event of the destruction of the unsaved in flaming fire and the gathering of the saved up into heaven to be with Lord?

???? Don't see it...sounds like hell that is thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[IndianaRob]

What will the actual mark be? Don't know as it's being developed, refined, improved.... Perhaps it's very close to this technology...
View attachment 87965

The mark is part of the Beast System.
There has to be a way to read it and the data centers hand shake with it. See if you, once you've been verified... have enough CBDC and are allowed to have your digital "cash" tokens moved from one account to another.

We already have nano electronics inside our bodies. All of us have MAC addresses and are nodes on the network right now. None of us volunteered for that and we all have it. I guess from your point of view it starts with digital ID?

So what would the mark be? They electronics are already in place and they don’t need a physical mark to prevent us from buying and selling.

 

[CrowCross]

We already have nano electronics inside our bodies. All of us have MAC addresses and are nodes on the network right now. None of us volunteered for that and we all have it. I guess from your point of view it starts with digital ID?

So what would the mark be? They electronics are already in place and they don’t need a physical mark to prevent us from buying and selling.

For those who are not raptured prior to the official rolling out of the beast system the mark may contain some of your localized data.

One question I have been thinking about is considering all the destruction that comes before the mark....such as Rev 8....what will the beast system consist of so that it survives and functions after the destruction and previous bowl and trumpet judgements....unless the beast system is in place and happens in parallel with the judgement.

I think those with MAC address are those who have had the jab...especially multiple jabs.

 

[IndianaRob]

For those who are not raptured prior to the official rolling out of the beast system the mark may contain some of your localized data.

One question I have been thinking about is considering all the destruction that comes before the mark....such as Rev 8....what will the beast system consist of so that it survives and functions after the destruction and previous bowl and trumpet judgements....unless the beast system is in place and happens in parallel with the judgement.

I think those with MAC address are those who have had the jab...especially multiple jabs.

The same thing that was in the jab is in the air, water, and food. It's also in novocaine, flu shots, and pretty much anything a doctor "treats" illnesses with. Even rabies vaccines for animals have it in them and the pets shed the spike proteins to the owners. We are all connected to the beast system right now. This isnt future, it's right now.

 

[CrowCross]

The same thing that was in the jab is in the air, water, and food. It's also in novocaine, flu shots, and pretty much anything a doctor "treats" illnesses with. Even rabies vaccines for animals have it in them and the pets shed the spike proteins to the owners. We are all connected to the beast system right now. This isnt future, it's right now.

Perhaps...
From what I understand once G5 is fazed out and G6 is turned on..the frequencies generated by G6 will activate the nano-technology.
I would think if it was just in the air, water, and food....it wouldn't be enough which is why they choose the jab route.
I hope the air, water, and food route along with shedding isn't enough to establish a "MAC" address.

I've seen video where people were isolated and just those jabbed had the MAC addresses.

 

[IndianaRob]

Perhaps...
From what I understand once G5 is fazed out and G6 is turned on..the frequencies generated by G6 will activate the nano-technology.
I would think if it was just in the air, water, and food....it wouldn't be enough which is why they choose the jab route.
I hope the air, water, and food route along with shedding isn't enough to establish a "MAC" address.

I've seen video where people were isolated and just those jabbed had the MAC addresses.

If you research it you have to research from a medical perspective because the freely talk about it but if you search from a conspiracy or military angle you wont find anything. I remember several years ago watching a video about a broccoli farm in California where each individual broccoli plant was sending health, pest and soil conditions directly to a server using the broccoli's built in nano routers and wifi transmitters.

My question though is - When does this or something else become the mark of the beast? The technology is in us right now that will be used to prevent of us from buying and selling without the digital ID.

 

[CrowCross]

If you research it you have to research from a medical perspective because the freely talk about it but if you search from a conspiracy or military angle you wont find anything. I remember several years ago watching a video about a broccoli farm in California where each individual broccoli plant was sending health, pest and soil conditions directly to a server using the broccoli's built in nano routers and wifi transmitters.

What they did was isolate people and with a laptop looking for MAC addresses the people approached the laptop one by one...and the people with the Jab registered a MAC address.
In another test they even went to cemeteries and fresh graves were emitting a MAC address.

My question though is - When does this or something else become the mark of the beast? The technology is in us right now that will be used to prevent of us from buying and selling without the digital ID.

My best answer is when they turn it on.
I believe the nano-particles are just one element of the beast system.
The Lucerase tattoo...or what it becomes... could be part of activating the nano-particles. These answers are currently unknown.

I would imagine pretty soon we will all be subjected to the tokenized programmable CBDC as there are several scenarios that may get us there.

 

[ewq1938]

Yeah, I know!
ETERNAL Fire consumes everything it comes near to!

So Jesus is destroyed by that fire?

Heb. 12:24-29
29 For our God is a consuming [G2654] fire [G4442].

Consuming
Strong's Number - G2654
Greek: καταναλίσκω
Transliteration: katanaliskō
Pronunciation: kat-an-al-is'-ko
Definition: From G2596 and G355; to consume utterly: - consume.
KJV Usage: consume (1x).
Occurs: 1
In verses: 1

Fire
Strong's Number - G4442
Greek: πῦρ
Transliteration: pur
Pronunciation: poor
Definition: A primary word; fire (literally or figuratively specifically lightning): - fiery fire.
KJV Usage: fire (73x), fiery (1x).
Occurs: 74
In verses: 73