How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[faithhopecharity]

There are 3 tenses to salvation and the third tense is glorification.

You misunderstood the point that Paul was making in 1 Corinthians 13:2. Again, Paul uses hyperbole about understanding ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge and having faith that can move mountains yet having NO love to express the importance of love. Faith works through love (Galatians 5:6), but we are saved through faith, not faith "plus love/acts of charity/works."

Love is the greatest quality between faith, hope and love (1 Corinthians 13:13) because God is love and it outlasts faith and hope. Long after the "evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1) are now seen and we are no longer looking for the "blessed hope" - (expectation of what is sure) and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13) because we are now in His presence, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth.

Paul is not teaching that even if our faith is genuine that our faith cannot save us without producing "enough" love/acts of charity which culminates in salvation by works. Paul is stressing the importance of love, not teaching that faith in Christ is insufficient to save us without the merits of our best efforts to love.

From beginning 'have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. Salvation is through faith (righly understood) in Jesus Christ alone.

behold the reformation tradition!

A thought 1 pet 1:9 says: salvation is at the beginning of faith alone!

thks

 

[mailmandan]

how do you do this by "faith alone"?

thks

After being saved through faith in Jesus Christ alone (Romans 4:5 - God imputes righteousness apart from works/Ephesians 2:8,9 - Saved by grace through faith, not works) we then live by faith and not by sight. (2 Corinthians 5:7) As the apostle Paul said in Galatians 2:20 - I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

 

[mailmandan]

behold the reformation tradition!

A thought 1 pet 1:9 says: salvation is at the beginning of faith alone!

thks

Behold the Roman Catholic sales pitch and salvation tense confusion. Once again, you confuse the beginning "have been saved through faith" (from the PENALTY of sin - justification) with the end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (from the PRESENCE of sin - glorification).

 

[faithhopecharity]

The ultimate author and primary interpreter of scripture is the Holy Spirit, who grants discernment to believers. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14) Scripture does not point to a single modern office or individual as having exclusive monopoly over interpretation.

the apostolic authority!

acts 8:30-35

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

the apostles interpreted Isa 53 to Christ!

how did the eunuch know about baptism?

thks

 

[mailmandan]

the apostolic authority!

acts 8:30-35

30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.

34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?

35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

the apostles interpreted Isa 53 to Christ!

how did the eunuch know about baptism?

thks

So, man "apart from the Holy Spirit" is the authority when it comes to interpreting Scripture? (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

 

[faithhopecharity]

Getting born again is being saved which is receiving eternal life.


Romans 10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



1 John 5:13

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



Acts 16

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

no born again is the grace of Justification!

shall be saved future!

must continue in faith Jn 3:16 present tense and must continue confessing

endure to the end to be saved mt 10:22


thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Getting born again is being saved which is receiving eternal life.


Romans 10

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.



1 John 5:13

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



Acts 16

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

what is eternal life?

scripture uses this phrase in multiple ways

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

So, man "apart from the Holy Spirit" is the authority when it comes to interpreting Scripture? (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

only the apostolic church has the Holy Spirit

Amen?

 

[mailmandan]

only the apostolic church has the Holy Spirit

Amen?

The church, the body of Christ. (Colossians 1:18,24)

 

[faithhopecharity]

The church, the body of Christ. (Colossians 1:18,24)

under apostolic authority!

God always establishes peace and order by obedience to the father's!

heb 13:17

thks

 

[Holy_Rover]

I am 100% sure that I am saved, and, that my Name is Written in the Book of Life.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I am 100% sure that I am saved, and, that my Name is Written in the Book of Life.

Is that because you place your faith, trust & belief in only the death, burial & resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ?

 

[mailmandan]

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

 

[Holy_Rover]

Is that because you place your faith, trust & belief in only the death, burial & resurrection of Christ for the forgiveness of your sins ?

I am saved by the sacrificial blood of Jesus Christ. I have Believed, by Faith, in Christ's Propitiation for my Sins on that Cross. I believe that Christ, as he said, would and did rise from the gave 72 hours (3 days and 3 nights) after his death on the cross. I Believe that Christ sits at the right hand of God, the Father, Almighty.

 

[PeterAndroz]

I am saved by the sacrificial blood of Jesus Christ. I have Believed, by Faith, in Christ's Propitiation for my Sins on that Cross. I believe that Christ, as he said, would and did rise from the gave 72 hours (3 days and 3 nights) after his death on the cross. I Believe that Christ sits at the right hand of God, the Father, Almighty.

Besides that what else do you believe is required to be or remain saved ?

 

[Holy_Rover]

Besides that what else do you believe is required to be or remain saved ?

Besides what I said, I don't have anything to add to that Peter.

 

[PeterAndroz]

Besides what I said, I don't have anything to add to that Peter.

All good HR, I suppose I was wondering how familiar or accepting you were of Titus 3:5-7, Gal 2:16, Eph 2:8-9, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1

 

[TahitiRun]

No. That is not universalism. Saying Christ is the Savior of sinners does not mean every sinner is saved. Scripture is clear that not all are saved. Jesus said, “he that believeth not is condemned already” John 3:18. Revelation 20:15 says, “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.”

I'm not sure what specifically "universalism" teaches about salvation. Salvation, I believe, is objective as well as being subjective. And that might be where the conversation stalls. For example: Saul was objectively saved in Christ prior to his knowledge of it. Paul tells us this by saying he was crucified with Christ, here:

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me; and that which I now live in the flesh—I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me;

Jesus was crucified one time only, and this happened while Saul was in unbelief. And we're told he was crucified "with" Jesus. Surprisingly Paul uses the passive voice in the verb. He didn't ask to be, authorize it or ask for it. Paul also uses the verb in the perfect tense, indicative mood, describing it as factual, and completed event, not waiting for other events to validate or secure it's benefits.

The other interesting thing about this text is that the noun, χριστω, uses the dative case, but it does so flying solo, often called the "naked dative". It's naked and takes no preposition. This allows it to be not only towards or for Christ but also instrumental as well as locative. Sometimes this is overlooked. Saul was "in" Christ, while in unbelief and was crucified "with" Christ as well as "for" Christ. And all of this while in unbelief.

 

[bdavidc]

I'm not sure what specifically "universalism" teaches about salvation. Salvation, I believe, is objective as well as being subjective. And that might be where the conversation stalls. For example: Saul was objectively saved in Christ prior to his knowledge of it. Paul tells us this by saying he was crucified with Christ, here:

Gal 2:20 I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me; and that which I now live in the flesh—I live in the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me;

Jesus was crucified one time only, and this happened while Saul was in unbelief. And we're told he was crucified "with" Jesus. Surprisingly Paul uses the passive voice in the verb. He didn't ask to be, authorize it or ask for it. Paul also uses the verb in the perfect tense, indicative mood, describing it as factual, and completed event, not waiting for other events to validate or secure it's benefits.

The other interesting thing about this text is that the noun, χριστω, uses the dative case, but it does so flying solo, often called the "naked dative". It's naked and takes no preposition. This allows it to be not only towards or for Christ but also instrumental as well as locative. Sometimes this is overlooked. Saul was "in" Christ, while in unbelief and was crucified "with" Christ as well as "for" Christ. And all of this while in unbelief.

The grammatical observations do not establish your conclusion.

Yes, συνεσταύρωμαι is perfect passive indicative, and Χριστῷ is dative. But none of that says Saul was already saved and “in Christ” while he was an unbeliever.

The perfect tense tells us Paul's crucifixion with Christ is a completed reality with continuing results. It does not tell us that Paul was spiritually united to Christ at the historical moment Jesus died on the cross. The passive voice does not prove that faith was absent from the application of salvation either. It simply means Paul is not the one accomplishing this crucifixion.

And the “with” idea is already contained in συνεσταύρωμαι. Paul says he has been crucified with Christ. You cannot take the fact that Χριστῷ is dative, list several things a dative can sometimes express, and then conclude that Saul therefore was already “in Christ” while unbelieving. That conclusion is not in the grammar.

More importantly, read the context.

Paul had just said: “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ...” (Galatians 2:16).

Then in verse 20: “...the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God...”

Paul is describing his present position and life in Christ. He is not teaching that Saul was saved while persecuting Christ in unbelief.

In fact, that conclusion contradicts clear Scripture. Jesus said, “he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18), and, “he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36).

Paul says that before God quickened us together with Christ we “were by nature the children of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3-5). And Galatians itself says, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:26).

Christ's death was objectively accomplished once for all. I agree with that. But it does not follow that every person for whom Christ died was therefore already saved and united to Christ while still in unbelief.

That distinction is biblical. The conclusion you are drawing from it is not.

Galatians 2:20 does not say Saul was saved before he believed. You are stating an inference as though it were the text itself.

 

[TahitiRun]

The grammatical observations do not establish your conclusion.

Yes, συνεσταύρωμαι is perfect passive indicative, and Χριστῷ is dative. But none of that says Saul was already saved and “in Christ” while he was an unbeliever.

The perfect tense tells us Paul's crucifixion with Christ is a completed reality with continuing results. It does not tell us that Paul was spiritually united to Christ at the historical moment Jesus died on the cross. The passive voice does not prove that faith was absent from the application of salvation either. It simply means Paul is not the one accomplishing this crucifixion.

And the “with” idea is already contained in συνεσταύρωμαι. Paul says he has been crucified with Christ. You cannot take the fact that Χριστῷ is dative, list several things a dative can sometimes express, and then conclude that Saul therefore was already “in Christ” while unbelieving. That conclusion is not in the grammar.

More importantly, read the context.

Paul had just said: “Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ...” (Galatians 2:16).

Then in verse 20: “...the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God...”

Paul is describing his present position and life in Christ. He is not teaching that Saul was saved while persecuting Christ in unbelief.

In fact, that conclusion contradicts clear Scripture. Jesus said, “he that believeth not is condemned already” (John 3:18), and, “he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36).

Paul says that before God quickened us together with Christ we “were by nature the children of wrath” (Ephesians 2:3-5). And Galatians itself says, “For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus” (Galatians 3:26).

Christ's death was objectively accomplished once for all. I agree with that. But it does not follow that every person for whom Christ died was therefore already saved and united to Christ while still in unbelief.

That distinction is biblical. The conclusion you are drawing from it is not.

Galatians 2:20 does not say Saul was saved before he believed. You are stating an inference as though it were the text itself.

Thanks for the reply. Here is why I think the grammar does establish my conclusions.

There is a distinction that Paul makes between objectively and subjectively being "in" Christ. Objectively, every human being is "in" Christ from creation, and yet not all human beings have been "united" to Christ. That is, not every human being has Christ "in" them. Paul established this truth in Act 17:28, as well as Col 1:16 and 19. Nothing in Gal 2:16 contradicts this.

The idea of "being in" and "consisting" (rather than being "united") is found again in Act 17:28 as well as Col 1:17.

In Gal 2:20, Paul treats these events as such, and I was trying to point this out grammatically using the text. Objectively, and for all the grammatical reasons I gave, "I have been crucified with Christ". From there, it turns subjective for Paul to it's present tense reality: "I no longer live, but Christ lives in me; and that which I now live in the flesh—I live in the faith of the Son of God". Paul then returns back to the objective condition: "who loved me and gave Himself for me". Christ gave himself for Saul, while Saul was in unbelief. And the grammar supports this.

Do you see this too? This is an interesting topic and I'm hoping others will join the conversation also.

Regarding John 3:18 and John 3:36. These texts do not really contradict the conclusions drawn out from Gal 2:20. And here is why: A person can be judged according to the flesh while waiting to be saved (unknowingly) according to the spirit. The flesh does not believe, nor can it, nor was it ever meant to be "saved". The flesh has been judged already (v.18) based upon it's works (v.19), and will never see life (v.36).

As for Eph 2:3: The quickening or regeneration is not according to the flesh. As for Gal 3:26, this is subjective, having faith.

It might be that we're not seeing the different aspects of salvation that occur at different times, either objective or subjective, as the case may be.