Beware Of The Crowd--The Many!

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Jay Ross

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If you have what you think is a better translation, let's hear it.

But no, what you are saying is not biblical, nor do the words translate as you say. And you too, how is it that you do not know that all creation groans, and this earth of the same elements as yourself, will also die that it too should be born again?

God be with ye as well!

Oh ScottA, how sad it is that you do not understand the truth that I have presented in my post above that you need to now try to minimise what I posted in a vain attempt on your part to look more spiritual in your "knowledge" of the meaning of words in scripture. You have not realised that you care too much about how you look or think of yourself than in the truth of the scriptures.

As requested, this is how I would paraphrase Revelation 21:1-5: -

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And this is the Interlinear for Revelation 21:1-2: -
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And Strong's definition for G:2537: -
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and a cut down snip of Strongs definition of G:0565: -
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I am sure with the above information that your spirit will agree.

Shalom
 

ScottA

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Oh ScottA, how sad it is that you do not understand the truth that I have presented in my post above that you need to now try to minimise what I posted in a vain attempt on your part to look more spiritual in your "knowledge" of the meaning of words in scripture. You have not realised that you care too much about how you look or think of yourself than in the truth of the scriptures.

As requested, this is how I would paraphrase Revelation 21:1-5: -

View attachment 88001
And this is the Interlinear for Revelation 21:1-2: -
View attachment 88002
And Strong's definition for G:2537: -
View attachment 88003
and a cut down snip of Strongs definition of G:0565: -
View attachment 88004

I am sure with the above information that your spirit will agree.

Shalom
Thank you--you reveal yourself.

So YOU have YOUR OWN translation (and you accuse me of trying to look more knowledgeable!). And YOU did it by LITERARY translation--oh that is rich!

Well, for you or ANYONE ELSE who wants to see what YOU did, the key words are "pass away" and "new" ("heavens and earth", Revelation 21), and can easily be seen in detail as compared [specifically] with other uses of the same original words in scripture, here: "pass away" and "new".

But the key word in your accusation against me, is "spiritual"--making your accusation not only against me, but against the means by which I told you what is true--which is by God...by that very means which Jesus said He would build His church. So be it.

Thanks again!
 

Ronald Nolette

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Yet, even among that group of those who "trust in th death and physical resurrection of Jesus", there are the unfaithful and unwise servants, to whom Jesus said, He "will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites."

Do you understand what He means by "cut him in two?"
Understand how you wish it to mean? NO! Sorry, but once one has placed their trust in teh death and resurrection of Jesus as the full payment for their sin, they are sved forever. They are made new creatures in Christ, their life is hidden in Christ and they have eternal life and not some probationary eternal life. That is gods Word.
 

Jay Ross

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Thank you--you reveal yourself.

So YOU have YOUR OWN translation (and you accuse me of trying to look more knowledgeable!). And YOU did it by LITERARY translation--oh that is rich!

Well, for you or ANYONE ELSE who wants to see what YOU did, the key words are "pass away" and "new" ("heavens and earth", Revelation 21), and can easily be seen in detail as compared [specifically] with other uses of the same original words in scripture, here: "pass away" and "new".

But the key word in your accusation against me, is "spiritual"--making your accusation not only against me, but against the means by which I told you what is true--which is by God...by that very means which Jesus said He would build His church. So be it.

Thanks again!

AH ScottA, you are accusing me of creating a personal translation where I changed the meaning of the Greek words based upon the Greek Root word G:2537 from the translator's opinion that these Greek word means "new" as in "brand new," whereas, in my opinion I believe that they have the meaning of "refreshed or refurbished to look like new again" so that it is fit once again for its intended purpose, four times in the presented five verses to convey more clearly what was intended in just these five verses.

Now with respect to the Greek Root word G:0565, it is found in verse Revelation 21:1 and Revelation 21:4 in the variation "apēlthan" which is only found in three places in the New Testament where the Matthew 22:22 occurrence is translated as "they went away" i.e. they left whereas in the two times found in Revelation 21, it was translated as "passed away" which does not make any sense.

2 Peter 3 tells us that the present heavens will be renewed, and the present earth will be refreshed so that it will be suitable for the Saints to occupy.

Now you are claiming that I have offended the Holy Spirit by allowing the Holy Spirit to direct my understanding of Scripture. If I need correction, I am willing to hear that correction and to change, if needed, to be more like Christ.

Sadly, that is not what I am hearing from what you post.

Shalom
 
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Jay Ross

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No--you "paraphrased." YOU. That's what you said.

Is that not what you do also, you paraphrase what the scripture present in your own words.

If it is okay for you to do that, then why do you find fault with others when they show God's truth which your "spirit" rejects as God's understanding.

Goodbye Scottie
 

ScottA

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AH ScottA, you are accusing me of creating a personal translation where I changed the meaning of the Greek words based upon the Greek Root word G:2537 from the translator's opinion that these Greek word means "new" as in "brand new," whereas, in my opinion I believe that they have the meaning of "refreshed or refurbished to look like new again" so that it is fit once again for its intended purpose, four times in the presented five verses to convey more clearly what was intended in just these five verses.

Now with respect to the Greek Root word G:0565, it is found in verse Revelation 21:1 and Revelation 21:4 in the variation "apēlthan" which is only found in three places in the New Testament where the Matthew 22:22 occurrence is translated as "they went away" i.e. they left whereas in the two times found in Revelation 21, it was translated as "passed away" which does not make any sense.

2 Peter 3 tells us that the present heavens will be renewed, and the present earth will be refreshed so that it will be suitable for the Saints to occupy.

Now you are claiming that I have offended the Holy Spirit by allowing the Holy Spirit to direct my understanding of Scripture. If I need correction, I am willing to hear that correction and to change, if needed, to be more like Christ.

Sadly, that is not what I am hearing from what you post.

Shalom
Just claiming the use of the word new elsewhere means the same thing you think it means--just shows that you are willing to have more scripture align with your own understanding. You can try that--but it just convicts you all the more.

As for "allowing the Holy Spirit to direct" you, you have already revealed that it is rather your own understanding that directs you. As for correction--will you not take it from your own confession of looking to the literary angle with all its variable possible meaning? Has God not warned of such? Indeed, He has.

As for you receiving correction from me--what do the scriptures say--that anyone who has allowed the Holy Spirit, can understand all...is that it? Is that all that is written? No, but rather that Chris would build His church by what comes directly from the father--which we know comes, "precept upon precept, line upon line. line upon line, here a little there a little", not 'all truth" all at once upon opening the door. As for corrections then, what are the additional measures--what is written?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love" (Ephesians 4:11-16).​
But I have said things hard to understand, therefore you reject me, me who has been sent according to what is written and how it should come.
 

ScottA

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Is that not what you do also, you paraphrase what the scripture present in your own words.

If it is okay for you to do that, then why do you find fault with others when they show God's truth which your "spirit" rejects as God's understanding.

Goodbye Scottie
Paraphrase, yes, but you defined your own paraphrasing in a way I do not do.
 

Jay Ross

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But I have said things hard to understand, therefore you reject me, me who has been sent according to what is written and how it should come.

That is just your opinion. Scripture is not hard to understand. Our translations have all been argued about by compromise by scholars pushing their own cart or perceived understanding.

Your pride seems to be your stumbling block.
 

Jay Ross

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Paraphrase, yes, but you defined your own paraphrasing in a way I do not do.

Just because you disagree with my understanding of how the scriptures should be paraphrased, does not mean that I have erred as you are suggesting, because your understanding is very different.
 

Jay Ross

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Ah! @ScottA how does changing the understanding of two Greek words in Rev 21:1-5 that I have re-paraphrased all of the text?

I am happy to be shown that I am wrong. Are you?
 

ScottA

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That is just your opinion. Scripture is not hard to understand. Our translations have all been argued about by compromise by scholars pushing their own cart or perceived understanding.

Your pride seems to be your stumbling block.
If it were just my opinion--you would not even know my name, nor would I trouble myself with such a burden.

You sound jealous, as if God never sent anyone, certainly not me. All the prophets and apostles will attest, as will God who sent me.
 

ScottA

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but once one has placed their trust in teh death and resurrection of Jesus as the full payment for their sin, they are sved forever. They are made new creatures in Christ, their life is hidden in Christ and they have eternal life and not some probationary eternal life. That is gods Word.
That is the half even the hypocrites keep. The question was, what is the other half they loose? Which I only asked because you are at risk.
 

ScottA

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Just because you disagree with my understanding of how the scriptures should be paraphrased, does not mean that I have erred as you are suggesting, because your understanding is very different.
I have not "disagreed."

That would imply that I have engaged in my own opinion or understanding against yours. But I have not. I did not send myself, but am sent.
 

ScottA

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Ah! @ScottA how does changing the understanding of two Greek words in Rev 21:1-5 that I have re-paraphrased all of the text?

I am happy to be shown that I am wrong. Are you?
I have already given you the information. But again, the new heavens and new earth are like one born again. One born again is not renewed in the way that you have described and argued, but is a completely new creation, and a new body. Not refreshed, refurbished, but replace in new and different birth. The old has died and was mere seed. And for this reason Paul included bodies both terrestrial and celestial when referring to our own bodies--because what is true of our own renewal is also true of the heavens and the earth, and vice versa.

I do understand this to be difficult--but then we have Nicodemus to thank for showing us that he too questioned and could hardly understand what we have come to know it actually true.
 

Jay Ross

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I have already given you the information. But again, the new heavens and new earth are like one born again. One born again is not renewed in the way that you have described and argued, but is a completely new creation, and a new body. Not refreshed, refurbished, but replace in new and different birth. The old has died and was mere seed. And for this reason Paul included bodies both terrestrial and celestial when referring to our own bodies--because what is true of our own renewal is also true of the heavens and the earth, and vice versa.

I do understand this to be difficult--but then we have Nicodemus to thank for showing us that he too questioned and could hardly understand what we have come to know it actually true.

1786402346907.png

Is this why you defend so fervently your understanding of the End Time as given in the Book of Revelation.

Just because you have penned a book, that does not mean that you have fully understood the Book of Revelations at all.
 

ScottA

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View attachment 88088

Is this why you defend so fervently your understanding of the End Time as given in the Book of Revelation.

Just because you have penned a book, that does not mean that you have fully understood the Book of Revelations at all.
That doesn't sound like a question.

But what did you think and believe, that as Israel thought Messiah would come as a conquering king, did you think all truth would come as the clouds opening and Christ would return on an actual white horses? Have you learned nothing?

Meanwhile, as it is written, a little book is unsealed and opened.
 

Jay Ross

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That doesn't sound like a question.

But what did you think and believe, that as Israel thought Messiah would come as a conquering king, did you think all truth would come as the clouds opening and Christ would return on an actual white horses? Have you learned nothing?

Meanwhile, as it is written, a little book is unsealed and opened.

So, what you are saying is that you are the only one who is able to honestly speak on the Book of Revelation because you penned a book on that topic.

Your ridicule and putting down of me saying that I "have not learned nothing", as well as others, is a false argument and shows your dishonesty towards anyone who finds your responses meaningless and not in line with what John penned in his Book of Revelation.

Goodbye Scottie
 

ScottA

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So, what you are saying is that you are the only one who is able to honestly speak on the Book of Revelation because you penned a book on that topic.

Your ridicule and putting down of me saying that I "have not learned nothing", as well as others, is a false argument and shows your dishonesty towards anyone who finds your responses meaningless and not in line with what John penned in his Book of Revelation.

Goodbye Scottie
It is "your ridicule and putting down of me" that is here on record.

Meanwhile, I give witness to the truth for which I am sent.