How Confidant Are You Being Saved?

[TahitiRun]

The grammatical observations do not establish your conclusion...

Christ's death was objectively accomplished once for all. I agree with that. But it does not follow that every person for whom Christ died was therefore already saved and united to Christ while still in unbelief.

That distinction is biblical. The conclusion you are drawing from it is not.

lol...Let's discuss this. What do you believe was accomplished objectively, once and for all, by Jesus on the cross?

 

[TahitiRun]

The grammatical observations do not establish your conclusion.

And the “with” idea is already contained in συνεσταύρωμαι. Paul says he has been crucified with Christ. You cannot take the fact that Χριστῷ is dative, list several things a dative can sometimes express, and then conclude that Saul therefore was already “in Christ” while unbelieving. That conclusion is not in the grammar.

Yes, the phrase "Χριστῷ συνεσταύρωμαι" uses the compound verb form having the prefixed preposition "συν". However, the point I wanted to make is that this grammatical usage with the verb does not restrict the noun to that single idea of "with" but allows the noun Χριστῷ without the dedicated preposition before it to have a more broader semantic range of ideas.

Let's discuss this too. Let's hope others will join in and share their thoughts.

 

[faithhopecharity]

I am 100% sure that I am saved, and, that my Name is Written in the Book of Life.

do we need to persevere to the end to be saved, then die, then undergo the judgment?

thks

 

[Anchorite]

do we need to persevere to the end to be saved, then die, then undergo the judgment?

thks

We can know now that we have eternal life.

1 John 5:11-13

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[Wrangler]

We can know now that we have eternal life.

So, universalism is correct doctrine?

 

[David Lamb]

So, universalism is correct doctrine?

How do you get that from what Anchorite posted? He quoted 1 John 5, part of a letter addressed to Christians. Neither John nor Anchorite was promoting Universalism as correct doctrine.

 

[PeterAndroz]

do we need to persevere to the end to be saved, then die, then undergo the judgment?

thks

Not according to the teachings of Christ through Paul.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 is how we are saved & sealed.
Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Titus 3:5-7, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1 are the 'performance' conditons.
The ONLY perseverance conditions would be that faith/trust in the 1 Cor 15:1-4 Gospel needs to be ongoing.

 

[quietthinker]

This is a question I hate. Advocates say you should be 100% confidant but that doesn't seem humble to me.

How confidant are you? What does that say about your humility?

You hate this question because your theology does not allow confidence, peace and hope.

If only you knew and were grateful for the Good News you would understand humility......but as it is, you don't see those who have come to love Jesus because of his mercy, his longgggg suffering and his peace and have assurance speaking of it with confidence....you don't see them as humble.

 

[Lambano]

 

[Lambano]

Is it a good sign or a bad sign that I've become less concerned with my own salvation (que sera, sera), but can rejoice when seeing someone who had privately expressed fear and doubt showing more trust and confidence?

 

[Lambano]

Is it a good sign or a bad sign that I've become less concerned with my own salvation (que sera, sera), but can rejoice when seeing someone who had privately expressed fear and doubt showing more trust and confidence?

Using C.S. Lewis's dictum, "True humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less", I just piddled any humility points I might have had down my leg by telling you this.

 

[Wrangler]

your theology does not allow confidence,

Confidence, yes. Certainty, being at odds with humility, no.

peace and hope.

Through faith we have peace and hope, not through certainty.

you don't see them as humble.

Correct. Certainty doesn't breed humility.

 

[NayborBear]

Correct. Certainty doesn't breed humility.

I agree!
Certainty DOES breed ARROGANCE though!
With "Strong Delusion" in CLOSE pursuit!

 

[faithhopecharity]

I am 100% sure that I am saved, and, that my Name is Written in the Book of Life.

based on what?

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Confidence, yes. Certainty, being at odds with humility, no.



Through faith we have peace and hope, not through certainty.


Correct. Certainty doesn't breed humility.

no one hopes for that which they already possess!

thks

 

[faithhopecharity]

Not according to the teachings of Christ through Paul.
1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 is how we are saved & sealed.
Eph 2:8-9, Gal 2:16, Titus 3:5-7, Rom 3:28, Rom 4:5, Rom 5:1 are the 'performance' conditons.
The ONLY perseverance conditions would be that faith/trust in the 1 Cor 15:1-4 Gospel needs to be ongoing.

and patience?

thks

Luke 21:19
In your patience possess ye your souls.

Luke 8:15
But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

Romans 5:3-5

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 and hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Colossians 1:11
Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Timothy 3:10
But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

Titus 2:2
That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

Hebrews 10:36
For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done they will of God, ye might receive the promise.

James 1:3
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

James 1:4
But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.

James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

2 Peter 1:6
And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (rev 12:17)

 

[mailmandan]

no one hopes for that which they already possess!

thks

Our future hope of eternal life is in the sense that we confidently look forward to eternal life in its final, victorious form when we'll be in our eternal home in heaven, having received our glorified bodies (2 Corinthians:1), dwelling in Christ's presence forever. (1 Thessalonians 4:17)

Just because believers have not yet received their glorified bodies, does not mean they do not yet have everlasting life and are not yet saved or justified.

John 5:24 - Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

10

 

[mailmandan]

10

Our confidence either rests 100% in Christ for salvation or else we are 100% lost.

Folks who place their confidence in SELF and not 100% in Christ cannot answer 10.

 

[Wrangler]

Folks who place their confidence in SELF and not 100% in Christ cannot answer 10.

Even those who place their confidence in Christ cannot claim certainty of his actions regarding them personally. Take Wayne Gretsky, with twice as many assists as goals. I am confident he is going to score in the clutch but I can't be certain he'll pass the puck for me to take the winning shot.