You indicated that the post in question did not promote Preterism, period. Not even partial Preterism. IIMO, this "like' feature can be misleading at times, and that is one reason I don't use it as much I could. Because per some posts I might actually like, thus agree, with some things they said. While at the same time fully disagreeing with something else they said in the same post. By hitting the like btn it gives the impression to the readers that I also agreed with things that I don't even agree with. Especially if I just hit the Like btn and leave it that, thus never commenting on the post I rated as 'Like'.
MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??
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You indicated that the post in question did not promote Preterism, period. Not even partial Preterism. IIMO, this "like' feature can be misleading at times, and that is one reason I don't use it as much I could. Because per some posts I might actually like, thus agree, with some things they said. While at the same time fully disagreeing with something else they said in the same post. By hitting the like btn it gives the impression to the readers that I also agreed with things that I don't even agree with. Especially if I just hit the Like btn and leave it that, thus never commenting on the post I rated as 'Like'.
You're ignoring what else Rob said, "The second coming was when Christ came in all power and glory to rule and reign with a rod of iron, meaning Daniels iron kingdom, the spiritual kingdom Jesus is using on the world right now." He equates the "second coming" spoken by Daniel as the spiritual kingdom of Jesus that is now! That shows that he, unlike you understands the Kingdom of God Christ came to earth with is NOT a literal Kingdom that shall be upon THIS earth, because the Kingdom of God now, in this world is a spiritual Kingdom. Which is why I respectfully liked and replied, hoping that he might not continue to confuse the spiritual Kingdom of God that has come with the physical Kingdom of God that shall come to the new heaven and earth after the sounding of the seventh trumpet.
Being born again means we have been eternally saved. And because we have been eternally saved (spiritually) we have no fear of the second death when Christ comes again, but shall be changed from mortal, physical body to immortal/incorruptible physical body made alive through our eternal spirit that shall be with Christ when He physically comes again.
The verses in the bible that promise salvation to anyone who repents like John 3:16 don't have "unless you take the mark of the beast" in them
Maybe in context pertaining to the MOTB, not everyone on the planet is meant, but only those within the body of Christ are meant. Which then means they already repented, thus were already saved, but then fell away and lost their salvation when they decided to worship the beast instead. Except very few want to interpret things in context. For instance. Worshiping involves something religious. Atheists, for example, don't worship anything or anybody. Not only do they deny God exists, they also deny angels and demons and satan exist.
Not to mention, the fp in Rev 13 that performs false miracles. Why would atheists care about things of that nature one way or the other? They wouldn't, thus they don't.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
CHRIST was always the Kingdom for HE was always the KING of His Kingdom
Zechariah 9:9
“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion!
Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you;
He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.
Matthew 21:1-5
Now when they drew near Jerusalem, and came to Bethphage, at the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples, 2saying to them, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find a donkey tied, and a colt with her. Loose them and bring them to Me. 3And if anyone says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord has need of them,’ and immediately he will send them.”
4All this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:
5“Tell the daughter of Zion,
‘Behold, your King is coming to you,
Lowly, and sitting on a donkey,
A colt, the foal of a donkey.’ ”
Matthew 27:11
11Now Jesus stood before the governor. And the governor asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?”
Jesus said to him, “It is as you say.”
Colossians 1:9-14
For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
13He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
In Daniel 7 He does not come in power and glory. He is given power and glory only after He has arrived first. It is in Matthew 24:30 that He comes in power and glory. Therefore, Daniel 7 involves a bodily ascension. Matthew 24:30 involves a bodily return. Not even remotely the same era of time in both passages.
Do you not see how you just twisted multiple scriptures to support your view?
- John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
- Romans 10:9: "If you declare with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
- Romans 10:13, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved”
- Romans 8:1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death.
In my view, when the time of the 42 month reign of the beast arrives, everyone that is going to be saved have already been saved. IOW, the door to salvation is closed at this point. One can then lose their salvation, but no one can be added to the saved. And when you think about it this might even agree with Amil theolgy since the first resurrection involves being saved during the thousand years. And that after the thousand years, the thousand years are in the past. Not to mention, per Amil theology, everyone that are saved reign with Christ a thousand years. Can't reign with Christ a thousand years after the thousand years. Can't have part in the first resurrection without reigning with Christ a thousand years. Therefore, per Amil theology it makes zero sense that anyone can still be saved during satan's little season, when the text makes it crystal clear--the first resurrection = reigning with Christ a thousand years. Both being impossible after the thousand years.
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Then your view contradicts the verses that promise salvation too who ever repents, thus your view is biblically wrong. It doesn't say won't repent it says can't repent.
It also doesn't agree with amil theology and has nothing to do with amil theology
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Any reference in the Gospel, apostles letters and Revelation of people getting saved AFTER the Second Coming of CHRIST?
I'm not meaning in regard to NOSAS, in this case, when I'm arguing my view can maybe fit Amil theology when you think about it and logically reason through some of these things. I'm meaning in regard to the door of salvation being closed once the thousand years expire and satan's little season begins. Salvation = having part in the first resurrection = living and reigning with Christ a thousand years. None of those things can be divorced from each other. Therefore, with Amil theology still in mind---during satan's little season, assuming one can still be saved, how then can they have part in the first resurrection when that already clearly means living and reigning with Christ a thousand years? IOW, after the thousand years, assuming one can still be saved, how can they then initially begin reigning with Christ a thousand years when that era of time is entirely in the past at this point?
Once again, this according to the text in Revelation 20 itself, not one single person meant that has part in the first resurrection can have part in it without living and reigning with Christ a thousand years. satan's little season is after the thousand years, not during it
Therefore, based on all of the above, I would assume Amils agree that no one can still be saved after the thousand years. But if they disagree instead, no wonder some of us can't make sense of their view since they would be contradicting the obvious if satan's little season precedes the 2nd coming. That it means when the thousand years expired the door to salvation was shut right behind it.
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Nope because when Jesus comes is the eternal judgment of the sheep and goats, righteous and unrighteous
41 “Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”
Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25 - 21st Century King James Version
"Then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their...
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations, and He shall separate them one from another as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, ‘Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I hungered, and ye gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took Me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed Me; I was sick, and ye visited Me; I was in prison, and ye came unto Me.’
37 Then shall the righteous answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering and fed Thee, or thirsty and gave Thee drink?
38 When saw we Thee a stranger and took Thee in, or naked and clothed Thee?
39 Or when saw we Thee sick, or in prison, and came unto Thee?’
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me.’
41 “Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I hungered, and ye gave Me no meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took Me not in; naked, and ye clothed Me not; sick and in prison, and ye visited Me not.’
44 Then shall they also answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering or athirst or a stranger, or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister unto Thee?’
45 Then shall He answer them, saying, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to Me.’
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”
Because as Revelation chapter 20 shows the thousand-year binding ends when satan is released and the thousand-year reign ends at the end of our world on the GWTJ day. There are two separate thousand years one the reigning and one the binding, Jesus doesn't reign because satan is bound Jesus reigns because He is God.
Yes amen, the words right out of Jesus mountNope because when Jesus comes is the eternal judgment of the sheep and goats, righteous and unrighteous
41 “Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”
31 “When the Son of Man shall come in His glory and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory.Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 25 - 21st Century King James Version
"Then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, but the wise took oil in their vessels with their...www.biblegateway.com
32 And before Him shall be gathered all nations, and He shall separate them one from another as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats.
33 And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on His right hand, ‘Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the Kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I hungered, and ye gave Me meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took Me in;
36 naked, and ye clothed Me; I was sick, and ye visited Me; I was in prison, and ye came unto Me.’
37 Then shall the righteous answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering and fed Thee, or thirsty and gave Thee drink?
38 When saw we Thee a stranger and took Thee in, or naked and clothed Thee?
39 Or when saw we Thee sick, or in prison, and came unto Thee?’
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these My brethren, ye have done it unto Me.’
41 “Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I hungered, and ye gave Me no meat; I was thirsty, and ye gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger, and ye took Me not in; naked, and ye clothed Me not; sick and in prison, and ye visited Me not.’
44 Then shall they also answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when saw we Thee hungering or athirst or a stranger, or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister unto Thee?’
45 Then shall He answer them, saying, ‘Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to Me.’
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into life eternal.”
There are a number of Amils posting in this thread. Name which Amil or Amils that agree with you about this. Would like to hear their reasoning as to why they would agree despite that Rev 20:7 makes it crystal clear that the thousand years expire once they have served their purpose. Then what follows is not the GWTJ but is satan's little season. The thousand years, then satan's little season, then the GWTJ. And not---the thousand years, then the GWTJ, like you would have us believe.
The thousand years, then satan's little season, then the GWTJ---none of these run in parallel with one another. God has reserved different periods of time for each. Regardless, whether these things get fulfilled before Christ returns, or after He returns. These periods of time are chronological. One period of time begins and ends before the next period of time can begin. So on and so on.
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