MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
That’s funny, because I thought that when I typed it. It was my actual thought that it was mercilessly merciful and that it’s our flesh that sees it as mean. I agree with you.
Reviving Biblical Christianity (The Way) Part 2
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
I notice this thread is titled REVIVING BIBLICAL christianity and yet those who b ring it
HAVE NO IDEA what BIBLICAL CHRISTAINITY EVEN IS ...............
they bring us a lie that denies TRUE BIBLICAL CHRISTANITY . The sheep shall not heed them .
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Marvelloustime
Well-Known Member
Exactly. The death of Jesus reconciles the whole world back to God. God was in Christ reconciling the WORLD to Himself. Now that the world is reconciled to Him...MUCH MORE shall we be saved by His life.
What unlearned and unstable (dishonest) people do, such as you, is not be careful with context and meaning...putting everything into one jumble that leads to false conclusions, and false accusations.
Justification is based on life according to Paul...the justification of life. In that context being justified by His blood...is not the shed blood but the LIFE blood of Christ. Shed blood is based on the law for sanctification...not justification.
If you don't know the difference between righteousness and holiness you are not qualified to comment on the bible...and especially not on what Paul wrote....as Peter warns what religious opportunists do to his writings that bring condemnation from God.
This verse is about the world being reconciled to God. Jesus is God's Lamb...not ours. Paul says MUCH MORE we shall be saved (individually) by His life.
But people prefer to justify themselves by the death of Jesus because THEY HAVE NO LIFE...or light in them.
Shed blood is based on holiness according to the law. Cleansing with blood.
Likewise we read in Hebrews with the "without shedding of blood there is no remission of sins"...
Look at the context.
And almost all things are by the law purged (cleansed or purified) with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. Heb 9:22
What law??? the law of Moses. The law of Moses that concerns holiness....not justification. We will each be judged for justification based on what we did. We reap as we sow.
Hebrews chapters 9 and 10 are about convincing Jews who followed the law of Moses concerning HOLINESS laws...not for justification or forgiveness ....and how Jesus is a better sacrifice for HOLINESS than bulls or goats since these cannot take away sins.
God is merciful to the merciful...and He saves the meek and those who fear Him.
But holiness requires the shedding of blood. Corporately Jesus died for the sins of the world...which replaces the day of Atonement and the law of Moses for holiness. But justification is something PERSONAL...and not arrived at by claiming to be covered by the death of Jesus which is CORPORATE in nature.
Resurrection life is only for those who believe..and given to God's chosen ones individually. And that life JUSTIFIES the individual within the holiness provision for the world. (of course those who are NOT claiming to be justified because they are humble can INDEED be justified by God...because He loves the righteous).
Unlearned people will NEVER understand what Paul is writing about...because they have no other life than a carnal life to draw from. AND they won't humble themselves into justification based on God's mercy. No, they want to exalt themselves and claim to be justified by their beliefs...of self-justification.
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
yea rather what do YOU think JESUS is gonna tell all them souls that rebuked those who reminded all of the DIRE NEED TO BELEIVE
ON HIM . HIC will save none , JESUS ALONE saves and to be saved YE MUST BELEIVE ON HIM .
Somone on this site is in deadly deadly dire danger .
MostlyConfused
Well-Known Member
People are not seeing the difference between what is holy and what is profane...what is clean and what is not clean. They are not seeing the difference between holiness and righteousness.
Here is a little indicator of the difference.
Justification in Christ is based on LIFE from God. Abundant life. The Blood of Christ is His lifeblood that flows through the one who abides IN Christ.
Holiness in Christ has to do with giving up your life. Passing through death...shedding blood...shedding one's life. Jesus have up His body life to qualify all men to enter into holiness...as they surrender their lives to Him.
On the human level no man can justify himself for any reason...whether by his works or his beliefs.
And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. Ps. 143:2
Here is a little indicator of the difference.
Justification in Christ is based on LIFE from God. Abundant life. The Blood of Christ is His lifeblood that flows through the one who abides IN Christ.
Holiness in Christ has to do with giving up your life. Passing through death...shedding blood...shedding one's life. Jesus have up His body life to qualify all men to enter into holiness...as they surrender their lives to Him.
On the human level no man can justify himself for any reason...whether by his works or his beliefs.
And enter not into judgment with thy servant: for in thy sight shall no man living be justified. Ps. 143:2
Amen. The power of an eternal life. The justification of a life that is without spot or wrinkle of sin.
The balance of that is in God's mercy by NOT claiming to be justified by Christ (unless we are walking in His perfection and victory). When we don't name and claim righteousness for ourselves...then we can have God's mercy.
Notice the goodness AND severity of God.
What I said was “we” are being purged and purified. I’m not the same person that started out with the Lord many years ago. I think of this as ascending the hill of the Lord, climbing the mountain of God until you finally reach the top and plant your flag, as it were. But that is only one possible analogy. The idea of building God’s temple is also scriptural…..I had a dream one night of the Lord placing the roof on my house, it was the last step in building it, a beautiful translucent roof (can't remember what it was made of, crystal or gold maybe). But I think in general we have to remember that terminology used in scripture (or dreams etc) is to help our understanding and mostly not literal…..and that there is more than one legitimate way to describe and think of something. Even Jesus used different parables in describing different aspects of how things go with the kingdom of heaven. The bible is written in spiritual language, not for the carnal mind.
I think in terms that there is both a process as well as a potential completion of the process, which the process itself is leading to. The bible speaks of righteousness UNTO holiness. Too much separating and dividing of one thing from another to me damages the picture as a whole…that is the tendency of the carnal mind…….we end up with a kind of disjointed Picasso instead of a cohesive Rembrandt. And then there is even a kind of concurrent picture we get from Paul where he said he is bearing about the dying of the Lord in his body that the life of Christ might be manifest in his body. Also, the children of Israel were told by God they would only overcome their enemies little by little lest the wild beasts take over. That is God's wisdom........I believe it is speaking of wild beasts such as pride etc...that is the nature of the beast, our old man. I believe our old man is even kind of defined by pride....that is the root of it…..wanting to be like God, to be our own God and self-rule, and receive glory for ourselves. That was Lucifer’s downfall and all his “children” are like him……which is all of fallen man. Our carnal mind is rooted in pride....that is why it is enmity with God.....and Satan it's father, is called the Enemy. We need the mind of Christ, His Spirit, to understand, grasp, see, hear, receive things of God. Understanding goes hand in hand with spiritual growth I believe, as we seek and follow the Lord.
Sorry for going on so long, but just want to mention how I once was going down a path of seeking knowledge for its own sake, except I didn’t even realize it at first…..at some point the Lord showed me Solomon and said for all Solomon’s knowledge and wisdom it couldn’t keep him from falling (into paganism). Whoa….that was a wake-up call. We are like children wanting to be independent of our parents, but it’s a big bad world out there so to speak, so we need to keep relying on and holding onto God’s hand, staying with Him and not running off on our own, and He will lead us in the way we should go.
And yes I sometimes tell myself to shut up or take a hike etc, too. lol. I would agree with the idea of God separating us from our old man, although again I don't think that is the only way to think of it.
We are only reconciled (rejoined) to God through Christ's Spirit. Before that we didn't know Him and couldn't perceive Him. It is God in Christ....that is why when we receive Christ we are also rejoined/reconciled to God. Is that not also your testimony/experience? If ye have not the Son ye have not the Father either.
2Co 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. (as ambassadors of reconciliation...how can they believe except they hear?)
Modern believers seek neither holiness nor righteousness.
For holiness Jesus says...seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness (which is only found in holiness). When a person is born again, they have a sample of the kingdom of God. But one must give up one's life to enter in. And who does that anymore? Basically no one. As the bible says...This is Zion that no man seeks after.
For righteousness Paul says...work out you own salvation (of the soul) with fear and trembling. Who is doing that??? Most people claim salvation based on religious beliefs that bring smugness and self-assurance. No fear, no humility...no righteousness.
For holiness Jesus says...seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness (which is only found in holiness). When a person is born again, they have a sample of the kingdom of God. But one must give up one's life to enter in. And who does that anymore? Basically no one. As the bible says...This is Zion that no man seeks after.
For righteousness Paul says...work out you own salvation (of the soul) with fear and trembling. Who is doing that??? Most people claim salvation based on religious beliefs that bring smugness and self-assurance. No fear, no humility...no righteousness.
On forgiveness...
God doesn't require blood for forgiveness. No, He forgives us as we forgive others. His forgiveness is conditional on our forgiveness of others. God has mercy on those who show mercy.
Jesus says to forgive our brother 70 times 7...and without shedding any blood!!!! Are we more merciful than God. So then forgiveness is based on righteousness NOT holiness.
Imagine a brother coming up to you and asking for forgiveness..and you say...well, you gotta show me a little blood!!!! People would think you were crazy. And that's what we see in Babylon... crazy people.
God has ALWAYS been merciful. Jesus died to reconcile the world to a holy God....in order that we might live with Him eternally. In holiness. Not in forgiveness for never-ending sin.
God doesn't require blood for forgiveness. No, He forgives us as we forgive others. His forgiveness is conditional on our forgiveness of others. God has mercy on those who show mercy.
Jesus says to forgive our brother 70 times 7...and without shedding any blood!!!! Are we more merciful than God. So then forgiveness is based on righteousness NOT holiness.
Imagine a brother coming up to you and asking for forgiveness..and you say...well, you gotta show me a little blood!!!! People would think you were crazy. And that's what we see in Babylon... crazy people.
God has ALWAYS been merciful. Jesus died to reconcile the world to a holy God....in order that we might live with Him eternally. In holiness. Not in forgiveness for never-ending sin.
People will trample holiness underfoot by claiming to be justified in their sins.
But the bible warns us..
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Heb. 10:28-29
But the bible warns us..
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? Heb. 10:28-29
You have a dire need to repent from your self-righteousness.
What I had was a question about Guyon being Catholic. You can read it on page 4 of this thread. My initial search found some things that were concerning and we shouldn't be sensitive about people questioning or challenging things because scripture tells us to do just that.
As I understand it she no longer adhered to Catholicism somewhere along the way. I did read her autobiography, or most of it. I believe she had a genuine testimony....when I read the poem she wrote while in the dungeon.....well if that wasn't victory I don't know what is. I don't know about the "quietism" part...haven't looked into that yet. I think of our prayer time as being led by the Lord, when we go deeper into it we are sometimes led into that quiet waiting. I hope she didn't try to make it into a method. I'm not accusing her of doing that....as I said I haven't looked into it yet, just that I have seen how people or churches will try to make a method out of things of God and know it to lead astray. I do see and understand that she was to some extent a product of her time and place, as we all are.
Well, that's the thing isn't it? If we have received Christ we are no longer in our sins....because we are in Christ instead. And the verse you quoted is warning about wilfully sinning and rightfully so.
From my readings, she upset the authorities just as JOTC did and suffered for that. Her teaching was considered dangerous to the RCC. Taking away the necessity of a priest.
Those who have received Christ are no longer found to be sinners..........unless we keep on wilfully sinning. Which unfortunately I know is a problem in many of today's churches gone astray.
It is our old man that is a failure. Learning, experiencing and truly realizing that is part of our growth in the Lord. But our new man is made in the image of He who created it, perfect, holy and righteous......and it is by our new man that we are saved and justified.
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