There is such a thing as false brethren, people who say they believe but are not converted, not born again of God, they will fall away.
Never heard the Gospel = burn/torment forever and ever ??
- Thread starter PeterAndroz
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
The Parable of the Sower
1 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”
The Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”The Parable of the Dragnet
47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”51 [d]Jesus said to them, “Have you understood all these things?”
They said to Him, “Yes, [e]Lord.”
52 Then He said to them, “Therefore every [f]scribe instructed [g]concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.”
The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”The Parable of the Tares Explained
36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.”37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!
Absolutely!!
Again KJV Heb. 10:29 Of how much SORER punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he WAS sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The "LoF" will be ignited by the Eternal, "all consuming flaming [fiery] fire" of Christ's revealed presence in the atmosphere of heaven, whereby the earth and the heavens, being engulfed in that fire, cannot and will not escape. Yes, even EVERY GRAVE of the unsaved, that holds what's left of their corrupt bodies within them, shall not escape.
2 Thes. 1:7-10 is a simult-aneous event!!
Clue:
Q. "When" is "When", as it is revealed in KJV 2Thes. 1:7-10?
Edit: 2 Peter 3:10 reveals the same conclusion about the Day of the Lord, WHEN the Lord Jesus Himself is SUDDENLY revealed from heaven, causing intense fervent heat/fire, by all His Immortal Glory.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall MELT with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up....aka THE LAKE OF [Lava] FIRE
Last edited:
>>>>>""Absolutely!!
..
Yes, I agree that take MOTB = go to LOF.
..
For an Eph 1:13 HS sealed believer to go to the LOF c/- taking the MOTB they would have to become UNsealed
Can you list where Paul teaches what is required to become UNsealed ?
Take MOTB = go to LOF - I don't see anything that teaches otherwise.
..
Will a Eph 1:13 HS sealed 'brethren' who takes the MOTB also go to the LOF ?
If so they would have to become UNsealed first.
Where does Paul teach what is required to become UNsealed ?
Hmm, there can be no unsealing if a person is one of these.
Which fits well with Christ teaches about eternal salvation, regarding His very own elect, who are the saints of God.
Romans 8
26 Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession [g]for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
John 10
14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.
Galatians 2
3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
There are always false brethren. they are among you, and in churches.
Peter and Jude also warns about them. Jesus talked of wolves among the sheep.
A wolf is not a sheep.
They are not sealed by the Spirit unto salvation, cause they're not saved.
God may show them kindness, they see miracles, but they are not led by the Spirit, as they are not followers of Christ
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Philippians 3
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
3 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage), 5 to whom we did not yield submission even for an hour, that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
There are always false brethren. they are among you, and in churches.
Peter and Jude also warns about them. Jesus talked of wolves among the sheep.
A wolf is not a sheep.
They are not sealed by the Spirit unto salvation, cause they're not saved.
God may show them kindness, they see miracles, but they are not led by the Spirit, as they are not followers of Christ
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Philippians 3
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.
20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.
Acts 20
25 “And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more. 26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent[e] of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not [f]shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church [g]of God which He purchased with His own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking [h]perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
The Ephesian Elders Exhorted
17 From Miletus he sent to Ephesus and called for the elders of the church. 18 And when they had come to him, he said to them: “You know, from the first day that I came to Asia, in what manner I always lived among you, 19 serving the Lord with all humility, with many tears and trials which happened to me by the plotting of the Jews; 20 how I kept back nothing that was helpful, but proclaimed it to you, and taught you publicly and from house to house, 21 testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. 22 And see, now I go bound in the spirit to Jerusalem, not knowing the things that will happen to me there, 23 except that the Holy Spirit testifies in every city, saying that chains and tribulations await me. 24 [c]But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my [d]race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.25 “And indeed, now I know that you all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, will see my face no more. 26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent[e] of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not [f]shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God. 28 Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church [g]of God which He purchased with His own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking [h]perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.
Hmm, there can be no unsealing if a person is one of these.
Yes, that's my understanding too
..
Based on that, will a Eph 1:13 sealed believer who takes the MOTB go to the LOF ?
I dont think this is even a realistic scenario.
Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
For a person to take the mark, they would not be led by the Spirit of God to do such a thing.
Note that those who are led by the Spirit, who are sons of God, have an anointing from Him to know the truth about a matter, when the time comes the Holy Spirit will teach you what to say.
v26-27 seals the deal, God and Christ's promise to us is that He will remain with us forever, the steps of a good man....
as Psalm 37 says,
22 For those blessed by Him shall inherit the earth,
But those cursed by Him shall be [a]cut off.
23 The steps of a good man are [b]ordered by the Lord,
And He delights in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down;
For the Lord upholds him with His hand.
1 John 2
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to [f]deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you [g]will abide in Him.
I john 2
Deceptions of the Last Hour
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the[d] Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you[e] know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.
Let Truth Abide in You
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to [f]deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you [g]will abide in Him.
Jeremiah 23:24
Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?” says the Lord; “Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord.
Ephesians 1
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Ephesians 4:10
He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
Can anyone hide himself in secret places, So I shall not see him?” says the Lord; “Do I not fill heaven and earth?” says the Lord.
Ephesians 1
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Ephesians 4:10
He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
""I dont think this is even a realistic scenario.""
Correct because an Eph1:13 SEALED believer can do NOTHING to become UNsealed.
They are sealed by FAITH and not by what they do/don't.
Correct because ALL past & present Eph 1:13 sealed believers will be taken before the MOTB comes into force
They will have ALL been CAUGHT UP, RAPIEMURE, HARPAZO before hand
.
Those left behind as well as faith will ALSO have a list of do & do not to remained saved
JimKnox
Active Member
There is none good no not one. All have committed sin. There is none righteous.
Read Romans chapter 3. There are no exceptions. None are righteous. None seek after God. VS 19 "There is no fear of God before their eyes".
I enjoy questioning the clowns in the NOSAS circus.
..
What does 1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 1:13 teach ?
No hurry, take your time
There is none good no not one. All have committed sin. There is none righteous.
Read Romans chapter 3. There are no exceptions. None are righteous. None seek after God. VS 19 "There is no fear of God before their eyes".
..
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
..
If they NEVER heard the teachings of Christ they were in a TIME OF IGNORANCE
Do you believe GOD < being fair & just, would send an IGNORANT person to the LOF ?
JimKnox
Active Member
Yes. Even these mythical so called "ignorant persons" you speak of.
ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Let God be true and every man a liar.
...and all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire.
God's ways are higher than ours as the heavens are higher than the earth.
Your righteousness is as filthy rags.
Going about to establish their OWN righteousness.
All arguments against God sending every sinner to the lake of fire is rebellion against God. And all arguments against torment in the lake of fire for eternity is also rebellion.
If the gift is eternal then so too is the punishment.
Acts 17:30 is not a "Get out of Hell Free Card". You are perverting Scripture.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
