WATCH!

[David in NJ]

What ever your deep and secret meaning is....do you think that will be what the end of the tribulation looks like?
If so, how....describe it.

i do not have a "secret" meaning.

Remember when Jesus would speak a parable and then He would tell His disciples the meaning.

Same thing going on here with "as in the days of Noah"

We are in Tribulation now = Matthew chapter 24

It will only get worse each day as we approach:
a.) the revealing of the "Man of Sin"
b.) the Mark of the Beast
c.) Revelation chapter 7

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

This is near the end of the trib and the enemy are happy and celebrating.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Same timeframe.

YEPPER = "They shall say"

34Wait on the Lord,
And keep His way,
And He shall exalt you to inherit the land;
When the wicked are cut off, you shall see it.
35I have seen the wicked in great power,
And spreading himself like a native green tree.
36Yet he passed away, and behold, he was no more;
Indeed I sought him, but he could not be found.

 

[Davy]

This covenant with many is the United Nations 7-year Accelerated SDG Covenant. Sustainable Development Goal.

Thing is per prophecy of the Daniel 9:27 verse about that confirming of a covenant, it is not done by a world body like the U.N., but the Antichrist that is to appear in Jerusalem at the end of this world.

 

[Davy]

That is no way implies that the Church will be in heaven before the 7 years begins.

There are no scriptures that say that the Church will be in heaven before the 7 years begins.

Nor is there any Bible Scripture that says the Church will be raptured by Lord Jesus prior to the "great tribulation." Instead, Scripture exists that says just the opposite, that Jesus comes to gather His Church AFTER... the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27).

 

[Davy]

Many, like myself, believe that the 70th Week of Dan 9 was fulfilled in the time of Jesus' earthly ministry. I personally believe the 70th Week was fulfilled as a Half-Week, and not a full week. Jesus ministered for 3.5 years and was "cut off." Then, in that generation, the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed. Nothing remains to be fulfilled of the 70 Weeks of Dan 9.

This is popular prophecy in America--Dispensationalism. We have all of these books and all of these movies, etc. They stir people up with the idea the Rapture of the Church can take place "at any moment." Nothing in the Scriptures indicate that Jesus can return "at any moment," or "on any day." Rather, Jesus' Return is simply portrayed as being "near" because he has already provided atonement for sin, ie for Salvation, meaning that Eternal Judgment remains as the alternative. And our time may be up on any day because on any day our soul may be required of us.

"Watching" for Jesus meant being aware of deceptions that lead us off the path of Eternal Life. We need to be aware of False Christs who proclaim God's Kingdom is already here in some cultic group. We need to watch out for false gospels, etc, that would lead us away from the righteousness that we have by faith in Christ.

We are not "watching" for an "any-moment Rapture of the Church." Nothing of the sort is taught in the Scriptures.

By contrast, Paul in 2 Thes 2 teaches that before Christ can return for the Church the Antichrist must appear first. And then Christ will return to destroy him. That is when Christ will return--when it is time to destroy and defeat the Antichrist.

Jesus was 'cut off' at the end of the 69th week, not the 70th, nor during the first half of the 70th week. All the prophecy given in Daniel 9:24 is completed with the fulfillment of the 70th week. And it's obvious for today's Jerusalem and Daniel's people (the Jews) that has NOT... happened yet. So really, understanding the 70th week is still future for the end of this world is EASY, and has NOTHING TO DO WITH DISPENSATIONALISM. You've simply been falsely taught to throw out the idea of Darby's Dispensationalism in a vain attempt to prove doctrine error by association.

 

[Davy]

Jesus meant that for unbelievers that are not watching for Him.

Jesus represented HIS coming... as that thief that comes in the night...

Rev 16:15
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
KJV

 

[Davy]

I'm failing to see your point.

You do know Jesus comes twice?

Jesus came once already, to die on the cross at His 1st coming. There is only ONE more coming left, and it will be AFTER the great tribulation, as written. Zechariah 9:9-10 only prophesied of 2 comings by Messiah. The 2nd one is still expecting and is when He comes to take reign over all nations and peoples on earth at the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

 

[Davy]

You just laid out the pre 7yr trib rapture.
* Falling away
* Ac revealed pretrib...not in power yet.
* But first the restrained is removed.
* Which is The rapture of the church pre 7yr
trib.

Thanks for those passages.

The restrainer of 2 Thess.2:5-6 is NOT The Holy Spirit. It is Archangel Michael, which is who Satan will war with in Heaven that will cause him to be cast down to this earth with his angels for the tribulation (Rev.12:7 forward).

Men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory tries to make the one who restrains of 2 Thess.2 as The Holy Spirit with falsely teaching it means The Holy Spirit leaves this earth, thus the Church must be raptured too they say. What a totally ignorant doctrine of men ADDED to the Word of God!

 

[Davy]

Please produce one scripture that shows that the Church is in heaven before the 7 years begin.

The Church is in heaven before the great tribulation and not before the 7 years begin.

The Church is NOT in heaven prior to the "great tribulation" either, so you both are wrong and do not align with the Bible Scripture.

 

[Davy]

What covenant had Daniel referred his people violating in his prayer in Daniel 9:4 and Daniel 9:11 ? The Mt Sinai covenant, right ?

That is "the" covenant in Daniel 9:27. Not "a" covenant.

The meaning of the Dan.9:27 'confirming' of a covenant is shown in Daniel 11 with what the "vile person" does at the end of this world.

Dan 9:27
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
KJV

The word "confirm" is the word gabar...

OT:1396
gabar (gaw-bar'); a primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently:
KJV - exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more [strength], strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

These below Daniel 11 verses about the "vile person" suggest the idea of the confirming of a covenant is about reestablishing the 'old covenant' with sacrifices and a new Jerusalem temple. He will at some point be against that "holy covenant", and end the daily sacrifices and worship, and instead exalt himself as God.

Dan 11:28
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.
KJV

Dan 11:30
30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
KJV

Dan 11:31-32
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
KJV

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus represented HIS coming... as that thief that comes in the night...

Rev 16:15
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
KJV

Yes, so WATCH. The born again believers keep watching and know the signs of His coming. To them it will not be as a thief. Unbelievers will be taken by surprise and judged.

 

[rebuilder 454]

The restrainer of 2 Thess.2:5-6 is NOT The Holy Spirit. It is Archangel Michael, which is who Satan will war with in Heaven that will cause him to be cast down to this earth with his angels for the tribulation (Rev.12:7 forward).

Men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory tries to make the one who restrains of 2 Thess.2 as The Holy Spirit with falsely teaching it means The Holy Spirit leaves this earth, thus the Church must be raptured too they say. What a totally ignorant doctrine of men ADDED to the Word of God!

News flash.
If it is Michael, I am fine with it.
If it is the Holy Spirit. I am fine with it.
If it is the church i am fine with it.

If you see my 8 or 11 VERSES proving a pretrib rapture ( of course i do not stray into your false belief of "one coming" a 6 yr old could debunk ), then the"point" you think you are making is plain ignorant.

So I am not a "pivoter" trying to pivot off of one verse.

You are desperately needing a smoking gun.
Sorry but you failed again.
Part of your circular error is the hatred and disdain you have for anyone challenging your many many errors.
Thankfully we have the pure beautiful word of God.
.....that I continually force you to cast down.
Sad.

Pssst....look up "intercessor".
That is the MINISTRY OF THE CHURCH.
AHEM...RESTAINING EVIL, CALAMITY, ACCIDENTS, ..AND ...DRUM ROLL....THE DEVIL.
UH..."THE RESTRAINER"

But make it what you need it to be.
That dynamic "the restrainer" does not help your doctrine at all, and even though it testifies against your theory of a postrib rapture, I have never incorporated it into some pivot point, or some "hoped for", "smoking gun".

See that's the difference, you need tons of verses cast down.
I need none cast down, as "your verses" are misused, and easily shown to be pointing elsewhere from your theory.

You need some Jesus time to melt your hatred out.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yes, so WATCH. The born again believers keep watching and know the signs of His coming. To them it will not be as a thief. Unbelievers will be taken by surprise and judged.

Yes, sort of.
The rapture according to the Bible has roughly half taken pretrib , and half left behind.
Postribs stumble at that dynamic and make that concept into "half the world is wicked, and half righteous".

IOW, Yet another totally misplaced section of Gods word by postrib rapture theory.
It is appalling the lengths people go through to protect their reckless personal beliefs transposed into Gods word.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Negative. The elect harvested IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS.........which is the great tribulation. Then the 7th seal is opened and the one year wrath of God begins.

I do not, uder ANY CIRCUMSTANCES , need your special separation, and hyper definition , of trib., great trib, and wrath.

Anyone can see, that NONE OF THE 3 COMINGS ARE IN "POWER AND GREAT GLORY," EXCEPT THE SECOND COMING ON WHITE HORSES.
That is the ONLY coming in "power and great glory."

So when Jesus says "AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS", HE CAN ONLY BE POINTING to the second coming, AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB, on white horses.

You can not EVER,EVER , hope to change that passage of scripture.
So that means half your doctrine NEEDS TO START OVER.
You can begin in Rev 6 where it is pointing to the end of the 7byr trib....the second coming.
NOT A MID TRIB COMING.
The mid trib coming is rev 14.
It IMMEDIATELY PRECEDES THE WRATH.
READ REV 15.

 

[CrowCross]

i do not have a "secret" meaning.

Remember when Jesus would speak a parable and then He would tell His disciples the meaning.

Yes, Jesus told the the pre-tribulation conditions of life...
marrying, eating, drinking, planting, buying and selling....which doesn't seem to fit some sort of near end of tribulation scenario.

Same thing going on here with "as in the days of Noah"

Yes, Jesus told the the pre-tribulation conditions of life...
marrying, eating, drinking, planting, buying and selling....which doesn't seem to fit some sort of near end of tribulation scenario.

We are in Tribulation now = Matthew chapter 24

It will only get worse each day as we approach:

Rapture before a.)

a.) the revealing of the "Man of Sin"
b.) the Mark of the Beast
c.) Revelation chapter 7

 

[CrowCross]

Jesus came once already, to die on the cross at His 1st coming. There is only ONE more coming left, and it will be AFTER the great tribulation, as written. Zechariah 9:9-10 only prophesied of 2 comings by Messiah. The 2nd one is still expecting and is when He comes to take reign over all nations and peoples on earth at the sounding of the 7th Trumpet.

You'll be pleasantly surprised when the rapture delivers you from the wrath of the tribulation.

 

[The Light]

So when Jesus says "AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS", HE CAN ONLY BE POINTING to the second coming

Exactly correct. The second coming occurs immediately after the tribulation of those days which is the great tribulation.

, AFTER THE 7 YR TRIB, on white horses.

Please produce one scripture that shows there is a 7 year tribulation. I never get an answer on this. If there is a 7 year tribulation, there should be a scripture that supports this conclusion.

You can not EVER,EVER , hope to change that passage of scripture.
So that means half your doctrine NEEDS TO START OVER.
You can begin in Rev 6 where it is pointing to the end of the 7byr trib....the second coming.

Where do you see a 7 year tribulation in Revelation 6............what verse are you talking about.

The second coming occurs at the 6th seal just as the Word of God says.

You think the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus on White horses which is Armageddon. Do you see any white horse in the verses below. Do you see Armageddon in the verses below? Look like a harvest to me.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Do you see any gathering of the elect in Rev 19? Is there a harvest.

Revelation 19
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

You fight tooth and nail over what you have been taught and yet you cannot provide any scriptural support proving what you have been taught.

NOT A MID TRIB COMING.

I don't believe in a mid trib coming. I believe the second coming occurs at the 6th seal........when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven..........just like the Word of God says.

The mid trib coming is rev 14.
It IMMEDIATELY PRECEDES THE WRATH.
READ REV 15.

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 occurs at the 6th seal.

You say it precedes wrath and yet you want to tell me there is no difference between tribulation, the great tribulation and the wrath of God.

You are one of the few that understands there are two raptures and yet you are unable to understand that the second rapture occurs at the 6th seal when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven.

 

[CrowCross]

The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 occurs at the 6th seal.

If the sixth seal is the coming of Jesus...Rev 19 19:11-21 what do the first 5 seal represent?

 

[The Light]

The Church is NOT in heaven prior to the "great tribulation" either, so you both are wrong and do not align with the Bible Scripture.

The Church are the kings and priests from Rev 5 that are redeemed out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

The seals are not opened yet and will not be opened until the Church is in heaven. He comes when you think not, just as He says.

 

[rebuilder 454]

You'll be pleasantly surprised when the rapture delivers you from the wrath of the tribulation.

The rapture is only for those looking for the groom.
The rapture is a "Bride / groom dynamic".
David will stay.
He will face the antichrist.
" one taken, one left behind".
Only those looking for him are taken.
(Half the church).

David is awaiting the false Christ as are all postribbers.
They eagerly await something other than Jesus.
...and mock the wise virgins. They inverted it to proclaim we are fools.
The foolish virgins calling the wise ones, (those waiting on Jesus) ....fools.
We are despised, as are the Bible verses.

 

[CrowCross]

The rapture is only for those looking for the groom.
The rapture is a "Bride / groom dynamic".

IMO...I believe all christians will be taken in the pre-trib rapture.

David will stay.
He will face the antichrist.
" one taken, one left behind".
Only those looking for him are taken.
(Half the church).

David is awaiting the false Christ as are all postribbers.
They eagerly await something other than Jesus.

I don't necessarily think the post tribbers are awaiting a false Christ...I think they just don't understand the timeline.

...and mock the wise virgins. They inverted it to proclaim we are fools.
The foolish virgins calling the wise ones, (those waiting on Jesus) ....fools.
We are despised, as are the Bible verses.