The good man that turned bad out of necessity

[Matthias]

I would still like to know your scriptural support for the physical force you might use.

Putting myself between my wife or child if they were being attacked, giving them
a chance to flee, is what I see Jesus doing in the Garden to defend his disciples.

I cannot see how physical force of any kind is compatible with your understanding of Scripture.

I’d still like for you to comment on firearm registration and restrictions in Australia.

 

[GodsGrace]

I took @markalan seriously. You didn’t?

I just got here. Haven't read all 400+ posts and do not intend to.

This is why it's not good to discuss hypothetical situations.
They're so hypothetical - and are usually exaggerated.

So, I'll remove myself from this thread.

 

[markalan]

Putting myself between my wife or child if they were being attacked, giving them
a chance to flee, is what I see Jesus doing in the Garden to defend his disciples.

The disciples had a chance to flee after Jesus knocked all the soldiers down to the ground.

But you are avoiding the question that Scot answered in a straight forward manner.
A home intruder that attacks you and your family is going to require a physical defence to stop him from doing harm to your family ... and to do so, you would be acting contrary to your understanding of Scripture.
Face it friend, you've painted yourself into a corner.

I’d still like for you to comment on firearm registration and restrictions in Australia.

My son has several legal fire arms but Australia does not allow assault weapons.
Registration is stricter than the US as far as I can tell ... which is a good thing.

 

[Triumph1300]

I understand that The Crusades took a long time to come about, after much torture, rape, kidnapping and murder by the Muslim invaders.

The Roman Catholic Church raped, murdered, tortured and burned etc. all over Europe before and during the reformation. Not to mention the abuse in North America of the native population after the arrival of Columbus.
Plus the sexual abuse during later years not too long ago.

Muslims were not the only bad ones.

 

[Lambano]

Butter knives, spoons, and other assorted dull objects, that would cause minor irritation and abrasions.

Sticking one in an attacker's eye might be an effective response in a pinch. Or a dull object to the crotch.

 

[NayborBear]

Do you understand that the majority of men that fought and killed the Nazis in WW2 were Christian?

Think about how your golden rule applies to reality. If we had taken this approach, the Nazis would have likely won the war and European Jews wouldn't exist today.

I have to wonder what you would have said to those starving in the concentration camps at the time.

"Sorry about your bad luck, but I'm not willing to get my hands dirty on your behalf. My eternal soul is on the line, you see? So you're just gonna have to suck it up."

@Debp posted a great example of the man who stopped the mass shooter. I don't know what the guy believes, but I've yet to find anyone, Christian or otherwise, that has said he was in the wrong for putting a stop to that evil.

Is it technically wrong? Sure. He murdered a man for the greater good. It's still murder, but it was for the right reasons. Namely to save the lives of others.

I had to put Matthias on ignore (and still is by the way....lol).
As Matthias is and has been in a "ditch" for so long that his "views and opinions" seem "normal."
But only TO himself!

(as a sidebar?.....don't bother retorting to this post Matthias as you are STILL on ignore!.....This is more or less a "PSA" to and for other posters such as poor Riven here who haven't been made wise to your antics! )

 

[Lambano]

The point is that a shotgun blast aimed in the sky protected him from two intruders. (In the movie, the intruders were his son and his basketball coach, neither of whom he recognized.)

Meanwhile, the shotgun pellets, obeying the law of gravity, fell and hit a little girl. Rule 4 of firearms safety: Know your target and what's behind it. (And in front of it or beside it.) Which is why warning shots are highly discouraged.

 

[Matthias]

The disciples had a chance to flee after Jesus knocked all the soldiers down to the ground.

No. The disciples had a chance to flee when the arresting party fell to the ground. Scripture doesn’t say why they fell, only that they did.

But you are avoiding the question that Scot answered in a straight forward manner.

I didn’t avoid it. He’s a pacifist who would not kill someone attacking his wife. Neither would I. Would he go further than I would? I think he would.

A home intruder that attacks you and your family ….

Would first set off my home alarm system.

… is going to require a physical defence to stop him from doing harm to your family ...

I bet that if you did some research you would share with us examples of people who were victims of home intrusion used non-physical ways to successfully defend themselves against the intruder.

..l and to do so, you would be acting contrary to your understanding of Scripture.

No.

Face it friend, you've painted yourself into a corner.

I’m not your friend and the corner I’m in is shared with Jesus, the apostles, and a goodly number of other Christians - notable and less well-known.

My son has several legal fire arms but Australia does not allow assault weapons.
Registration is stricter than the US as far as I can tell ... which is a good thing.

Anything else to add concerning the information I posted on the situation in Australia? If not,mI have several questions to ask you about it.

 

[Matthias]

Meanwhile, the shotgun pellets, obeying the law of gravity, fell and hit a little girl. Rule 4 of firearms safety: Know your target and what's behind it. (And in front of it or beside it.) Which is why warning shots are highly discouraged.

There is no little girl at my home. If I were to discharge a firearm in the air, it would be aimed nowhere near anyone.

 

[Matthias]

I had to put Matthias on ignore (and still is by the way....lol).
As Matthias is and has been in a "ditch" for so long that his "views and opinions" seem "normal."
But only TO himself!

(as a sidebar?.....don't bother retorting to this post Matthias as you are STILL on ignore!.....This is more or less a "PSA" to and for other posters such as poor Riven here who haven't been made wise to your antics! )

I’m not retorting his post, readers. I will, however, take the opportunity once again to point you to the teaching and practice of Jesus and the apostles, the Apostolic and the Ante Nicene eras of church history. To that I would direct your attention to the peace churches and the persecution they received from the hands of their enemies.

 

[Matthias]

Meanwhile, the shotgun pellets, obeying the law of gravity, fell and hit a little girl. Rule 4 of firearms safety: Know your target and what's behind it. (And in front of it or beside it.) Which is why warning shots are highly discouraged.

btw, the intruders in the movie were far out of range of the shotgun blast. It was impossible for his son and the basketball coach to have been struck by pellets.

 

[Riven]

No. The disciples had a chance to flee when the arresting party fell to the ground. Scripture doesn’t say why they fell, only that they did.

Almost like a force of some kind flung them to the ground. What are the odds that they all just slipped on the same banana peel?

 

[Matthias]

Pacifism is morally repugnant on so many levels.

You would kill followers of Jesus in a wartime setting. How do you think Jesus feels about that?

 

[Matthias]

Almost like a force of some kind flung them to the ground.

Scripture doesn’t say that. Your imagination is running away with you.

What are the odds that they all just slipped on the same banana peel?

There was no banana peel. It was dark. Jesus didn’t react the way that they expected him to. Someone steps back and … people fell.

 

[Matthias]

Why are you asking everyone if they own a weapon?

@markalan has by now seen you and the expatriate lady in Italy say that you don’t own a gun. Did he make the argument against the two of you that he tried to make against me?

 

[Riven]

Scripture doesn’t say that. Your imagination is running away with you.

We can make Jesus a Jedi who uses Force powers. Or we could swap in baby Jesus for this scene. He doesn't have the mental fortitude to control his powers yet, so he just kind of lashes out because he's afraid of the dark. That's just off the top of my head.

There was no banana peel. It was dark. Jesus didn’t react the way that they expected him to. Someone steps back and … people fell.

Or we could just have them be clumsy.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Roman Catholic Church raped, murdered, tortured and burned etc. all over Europe before and during the reformation. Not to mention the abuse in North America of the native population after the arrival of Columbus.
Plus the sexual abuse during later years not too long ago.

Muslims were not the only bad ones.

Since when did two wrongs make a right?
You defend what Islam did by citing other wrongs?

I just hope you realize, at some point in your many studies about the crusades,
that if it were not for the Catholic Chruch YOU would not be Christian right now
and you would be speaking Arabic.

There was warfare in Europe DUE TO the Reformation.
It caused King to be against King--country against country...
even family member against family member.

There's enough blame to go around...
but let's not get history messed up with personal feelings.

 

[Matthias]

We can make Jesus a Jedi who uses Force powers. Or we could swap in baby Jesus for this scene.

We can’t do either one, because he was neither one.

He doesn't have the mental fortitude to control his powers yet…

After all that we read about his mental fortitude in the Gospels, I don’t see him having an issue in this setting.

… so he just kind of lashes out because he's afraid of the dark. That's just off the top of my head.

There is nothing written in the Gospels that points to the Messiah being afraid of the dark.

Or we could just have them be clumsy.

They weren’t clumsy. It was dark. They were there to arrest him. He steps forward - what is the topography like? - and gives himself up - they came anticipating resistance - and they step back. That’s an easy scenario for people to fall.

 

[Matthias]

Then in many situations you would be killed, and of no use to anyone ... while the killing still went on ... the killing that could have been stopped by you.

You set up the school scenario. Do you spend a lot of time at children’s schools? (I did, before COVID.) How close do you live to the nearest school? Are you a vigilante?

Have you ever killed anyone?

 

[Lambano]

btw, the intruders in the movie were far out of range of the shotgun blast. It was impossible for his son and the basketball coach to have been struck by pellets.

"Depending on the choke, buckshot loads in a 12-gauge shotgun can be effective against a human adversary out to 60 or 70 meters. However, in a cylinder-bore shotgun, the effective range of, for example, #00 buckshot is 40–50 meters. Beyond that range, the pattern is so wide that a reliable hit is not guaranteed. "

(Source: How Far Will A 20 Gauge Shotgun Shoot?)

Got any neighbors who live within 70 yards of you?

BTW, a 9mm bullet fired from a handgun can travel up to 1.5 miles (2.5 km). Please, people, don't fire guns unless you know where the bullet is going to go. This public safety announcement is brought to you by Christianity Board. Loving People. Living Community.