The good man that turned bad out of necessity

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Matthias

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@Riven I shared a personal story with you about a work experience a few days ago. I’ll share a bit more of that story with you now.

You’ll recall that due to my supervisor being inept, I narrowly avoided having my employmemt by the government terminated. Two weeks later, my transfer came through.

For six months I was ordered by my new supervisor to sit in my office with the door closed. He made it abundantly clear that he didn’t want to see me or speak with me. I was allowed to leave my office only for restroom breaks, lunch, and at the end of the work day. What did he want me to do? Nothing.

That’s when I decided to go back to school in the evenings to earn a Bachelor’s degree in theology. (The college gave me 60 hours of elective credits for my 4 year Civil Engineering degree. I only needed 60 hours of credit to be awarded a BTh degree by the college.) What did I do in my office for six months? I worked on my college class work.

At the end of six months my supervisor knocked on my door and said he wanted to see me in his office in an hour (I think it was.) When I went to his office he told me to close the door and sit down. (Okay. I wonder what this is all about.)

As soon as I sat down he asked me a question: “What in the hell is the matter with you? Why haven’t you quit?” (Ah. Their strategy revealed.)

I instantly replied with a straight face, “I have buttocks of steel.”

He just sat there. Stunned. And then he burst out laughing. (He wasn’t a bad guy. He was just doing what he was ordered to do.)

He asked me what I had been doing all that time. That’s when I told him that I was going to school full time in the evening and on weekends, taking 5 classes. I was doing my homework in my office. He asked what subject I was studying. So I told him.

He told me that he had told upper management that I wouldn’t fold but they didn’t agree. (Mexican standoff.)

He asked me one more question: “Would you really have sat in your office for another twenty years with the door closed and having no work assignments to complete?” (He meant government work assignments.) I told him that I like to read and twenty years sitting in my office reading with no distractions was like a paid twenty year vacation.

He told me to return to my office, leave his door open and close mine, and await further instructions. A few days later, I was back to doing engineering work - in my office and on the road - struggling to keep up with my classwork. (I still graduated 18 months later with a 4.0 grade average.)

I’m not a quitter. I’m a theological engineer.

@Riven the story of how I became a theological engineer has a point related to our conversation -> I was innocent and helpless, a sheep led to the slaughter, but was able to defend myself without resorting to violence. I’ll go to the grave believing that God and Messiah had my back. What those “Christian” men intended for my harm, God and Messiah used for my good.
 

Riven

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@Riven the story of how I became a theological engineer has a point related to our conversation -> I was innocent and helpless, a sheep led to the slaughter, but was able to defend myself without resorting to violence. I’ll go to the grave believing that God and Messiah had my back. What those “Christian” men intended for my harm, God and Messiah used for my good.
How does an engineer have an interest in theology? Seems contradictory to me.
 

Matthias

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How does an engineer have an interest in theology? Seems contradictory to me.

Well, I’ll try to keep it pithy. The Reader’s Digest version:

My paternal grandparents had an only child. They wanted him to become a Baptist preacher. He wanted no part of that and lived a life that proved it. He liked to tell his friends that he ruled his house “like a Russian Field Marshal.” And he did.

My grandparents then turned their hope from him to me. They took me to church - which my parents weren’t thrilled about but allowed - and I loved going with them. My grandfather, in particular, read the Bible prodigiously. He spent a lot of time talking to me about the Bible and he prayed for me regularly - after I moved in with them (see below) he told me that he prayed for me daily.

My grandparents sold their house and bought a house two streets behind ours. About a year later, my father moved us hundreds of miles away from them - following a terrible fight he had with them about them wanting me to be baptized. We seldom saw them after that. And I didn’t attend church again until I briefly moved in with my grandparents many years later. I was baptized in their church. My parents did not attend, though my mother did ask me if I would like for them to.

I never became a Baptist preacher. My grandfather died before I obtained my theology degree, was ordained an elder, and asked to serve as a pastor for a small congregation. My grandmother knew all of that and just before she died she asked that I preach at her funeral. I did.

My father told me after the funeral service, which he attended, that my grandfather would be proud of me. My father was not.

My interest in theology began at a very young age, and my grandparents played a major role in it. I credit my grandparents but I believe that it was God and Jesus working through them to draw me to them.

Thank you for asking. I’ll sleep well tonight with that on my mind.
 

Riven

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Depends on what type of engineer you are.

For me as an engineer, I like to consider the processes surround what we do and how we live.
We have all these engineers on the forum and still no dark theme. hmmx1:
 

Matthias

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Jesus is the good man and his disciples are to be like him. Christians shouldn’t have an issue with that statement. If someone does, we’ll have to come back and start here.

Killing our enemies is not being like Jesus. This shouldn’t be hard for Christians to see, and I don’t believe that it is. Jesus didn’t kill his enemies. If he had, the New Testament would say that he did.

Why are Christians willing to do what Jesus didn’t do and taught not to do? That leads us back to the 4th century. We’ve got to get back to the 1st century. We’ve got to get back to Jesus and the apostles.


Love your enemies. Christians have a problem doing this. Jesus is the answer to our problem.
 
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Riven

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Jesus is the good man and his disciples are to be like him. Christians shouldn’t have an issue with that statement. If someone does, we’ll have to come back and start here.

Killing our enemies is not being like Jesus. This shouldn’t be hard for Christians to see, and I don’t believe that it is. Jesus didn’t kill his enemies. If he had, the New Testament would say that he did.

Why are Christians willing to do what Jesus didn’t do and taught not to do? That leads us back to the 4th century. We’ve got to get back to the 1st century. We’ve got to get back to Jesus and the apostles.


Love your enemies.
Love your enemies, become a nation of pacifists, and you will be conquered or enslaved by a people that don't share those values. That historical record is very clear. Even a self-proclaimed pacifist nation like Japan has a standing military for self-defense.
 
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Matthias

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Love your enemies, become a nation of pacifists, and you will be conquered or enslaved by a people that don't share those values. That historical record is very clear. Even a self-proclaimed pacifist nation like Japan has a standing military for self-defense.

You’re not thinking like Jesus and the apostles. You’re not acting like Jesus and the apostles.

Jesus has not called upon any nation of the world to become a nation of pacifists. Neither did the apostles. Neither do I.
 

Matthias

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1787501421909.jpeg

@Riven this is a crucifix. I’m sure you must have seen one some where along the way in your life. They are common in Catholic homes; uncommon in Protestant homes.

Have you spent time looking intently at a crucifix?

They’re not as obscene as the actual event they portray. They’re sanitized representations.

What do we see when we look intently at a crucifix?

We should see “love your enemies”.

But that’s only the beginning.
 
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Matthias

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@Riven think hard on this with me: It is sin not to love your enemies.

Is the statement true or false?

If it is true, why is it true?

If it is false, why is it false?
 

GodsGrace

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@Riven think hard on this with me: It is sin not to love your enemies.

Is the statement true or false?

If it is true, why is it true?

If it is false, why is it false?
Loving an enemy does not require accepting them.
@Riven is right.
I could love an enemy,,,,but not allow him into my home because I know he will cause harm.

Jesus said to be gentle as doves
but wise as serpents.

And I read the last couple of posts and you're getting politics mixed up with Theology.

Our Christianity should follow us wherever we go..
but it is not our political leaning that determines whether or not we are following Jesus.
And we should not allow ourselves to be CRUSHED by immoral governments that are seeking
to destroy the normal lives we once had.

Jesus did NOT like the Roman Empire...but He did not come for that.
Next time.


 

Mancunian

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If you're only means to stop evil from occuring was for you to kill, you would kill regardless. If you were backed into a corner or you were watching someone you love on the edge of death at the hands of another, you would act... Even if that meant killing.

If you didn't you wouldn't be human, you wouldn't have a shred of empathy, and you would be downright selfish.

If you can defend not acting against evil, then you're evil yourself.
 
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GodsGrace

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View attachment 88785

@Riven this is a crucifix. I’m sure you must have seen one some where along the way in your life. They are common in Catholic homes; uncommon in Protestant homes.

Have you spent time looking intently at a crucifix?

They’re not as obscene as the actual event they portray. They’re sanitized representations.

What do we see when we look intently at a crucifix?

We should see “love your enemies”.

But that’s only the beginning.
I don't see any in the homes I frequent...
but whatever.


1787518548515.png
 

Matthias

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Loving an enemy does not require accepting them.
@Riven is right.

It’s always wrong for a follower of Jesus to go against Jesus and the apostles.

I could love an enemy,,,,but not allow him into my home because I know he will cause harm.

Jesus said to be gentle as doves
but wise as serpents.

And I read the last couple of posts and you're getting politics mixed up with Theology.

The problem is that the church got caught up in politics. That’s what I’m writing against.

Our Christianity should follow us wherever we go..
but it is not our political leaning that determines whether or not we are following Jesus.
And we should not allow ourselves to be CRUSHED by immoral governments that are seeking
to destroy the normal lives we once had.

Jesus did NOT like the Roman Empire...but He did not come for that.
Next time.


 

Matthias

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If you're only means to stop evil from occuring was for you to kill, you would kill regardless.

Jesus and the apostles didn’t.

If you were backed into a corner or you were watching someone you love on the edge of death at the hands of another, you would act...

Yes.

Even if that meant killing.

No.

If you didn't you wouldn't be human, you wouldn't have a shred of empathy, and you would be downright selfish.

Jesus and the apostles are human, have empathy, and aren’t selfish.

If you can defend not acting against evil, then you're evil yourself.

Jesus and the apostles acted against evil.
 

Mancunian

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Jesus and the apostles didn’t.



Yes.



No.



Jesus and the apostles are human, have empathy, and aren’t selfish.



Jesus and the apostles acted against evil.
Let me give you an actual scenario.

Somebody that you love is being doused with gasoline. The person that is dousing your loved one is going to burn them alive.

The ONLY way to stop it is to kill the person.

Do you kill the person?
 
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