WHAT IS MEANT IN HEBREWS SAYING THERE IS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS?

[Lambano]

if they had the HS, then they still do

eternal life is eternal not conditional

Do you really think the Holy Spirit wants to stick around and be insulted? You know what insulting the Holy Spirit is, right? The unforgivable sin?

How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:29)

 

[Lambano]

I agree fully with your reconciliation of 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 3:9
It is the difference between committing a sin and living in sin.

I have a different understanding of 1 John 3:9, in the context of the theme of the entire letter and in the context of chapter 3 itself.

John's purpose in writing his letter is stated in 1 John 2:1a: My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. Throughout the letter, John exhorts his "little children" to avoid sin over 20 times in 5 chapters. I hope everyone agrees, this is the theme of the letter.

In chapter 3, John identifies his flock as Children of God:

3 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! ... 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made manifest. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3 All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure. ​

We are Children of God - but WE ARE NOT YET LIKE CHRIST, i.e. pure. This is a future hope, and John exhorts his little children to PURIFY THEMSELVES until Christ appears. Still with me? Good.

Now, on to Chapter 3 verse 9:

9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.​

​

Even though we are children and will not be mature until Christ returns, John is appealing to our identity as Children of God to not practice sin, because God's begotten sons and daughters do not and indeed cannot do that.

An appeal to identity. It took the modern world in which identity is everything for me to see that. I think this interpretation is logically consistent with 1 John 1:8: If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. It also stops in its tracks the question, "What's the spec? What frequency of sinning counts as 'practicing sin'?" That's the kind of question a quality-control engineer would ask, and it's absolutely the wrong question.

 

[GodsGrace]

It would be nice if we agreed on doctrine. Maybe if we went back to burning the works of heretics?

(But not actually burning the heretics at the stake.)

That sounds right to me.
Man does seem to take things too far.

But....
Just for the record, in the early church it was as we both wish....
The heresy was eliminated....
Not the person.

But then things changed.

 

[Grailhunter]

[Numbers 15:30 KJV] 30 But the soul that doeth [ought] presumptuously, [whether he be] born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

There was no sacrifice offered for one of the congregation, or a stranger among them, to atone for willful sin.

Hebrews likewise does not offer a sacrifice for willful sinning...............[Heb 10:26 KJV] 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,.............under the new covenant there is no Levitical offering to atone for willful sin.

Hebrews 10:1-31
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2 Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3 But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. 4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
(This is a fact. One of the reasons that there was no salvation in the Old Testament. Sacrifices appeased the wrath of Yahweh. Sacrifices did not forgive them.)
5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’”
8 First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9 Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. 14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:

16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
17 Then he adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.

A Call to Persevere in Faith​

19 Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, 25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

This is written to the Jews that had heard the truth about Yeshua and rejected it. Note verse 26 it doesn not say--->If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins is left. This is saying to the Jews that sacrifices to appease the wrath of God are no longer. And if you read on the verses talk about the wrath of God. Avenge.....punishment in this life because the Jews did/don't believe in Hell.

 

[Marvelloustime]

oh i know it is . and so is this as well , ya cant be a muslim christain , a budist christain
a new age christain or etc .
NOR can you dare to believe that other religoins have differing paths to the same GOD as we worship .
ANY christain who supports anti christ is no christain .
And thus any who supports the idea that satan , the all incliusive god , and his ecumeincal intefaith harlot
has sold us , IS SUPPORTING anti christ who by peace shall destroy many .
Nor does a christain identify WITH his or her sin OR ANY SIN .
THERE IS NO SUCH THING as a GAY christain . OUR IDENTITY is not in SIN but IN CHRIST .
OH yes lambando , OH YES , i have come to expose the doctrine of satan and his well favored harlot
who has simply used the name of JESUS to preach abomination and A LIE . And has promised
them this is the way to attain peace n safety .

@amigo de christo

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes sir.



I agree fully with your reconciliation of 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 3:9
It is the difference between committing a sin and living in sin.

Again, you are taking ONE SENTENCE and creating an entire doctrine from it.

No actually I am not

I am taking the words of God through the apostle John and making the rest of scripture agree with it.

If someone that knows God never sins...
or one that sins has never known God...

This would be alluding to sinless perfection.
Do you believe in sinless perfection?

No. How would it be aluding to sinless perfection when you just agreed that it was living or habitual sin, and not induvidual personal sin?

Neither do I.
So surely John did not mean what it sounds like....
unless a person that knows God NEVER SINS.

No. again, your missing his point. and causeing a contradiction in 1 John chapter 1 and chapter 3 by using personal sin in 1 John 3..

Problem is...I could say the same.

I would hope so.

so Hebrews said a person who falls away can NEVER be restored to repentance

And the apostle John said one born of God can not live in habitual continual sin.

so why would you accept scripture with an interpretation that contradicts both of these passages?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It would be nice if we agreed on doctrine. Maybe if we went back to burning the works of heretics?

(But not actually burning the heretics at the stake.)

I do not like the term OSAS.. from what I see. it causes those who are anti calvinist to go balistic..

I prefer the term eternal security. or better yet. just use the words Jesus spoke. they will never perish, they will have eternal life. they will live forever. never die. passed from death to life.. etc etc.

if people want to call that osas. thats fine.. But again, OSAS causes some people to lose it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you really think the Holy Spirit wants to stick around and be insulted? You know what insulting the Holy Spirit is, right? The unforgivable sin?

Do you think God makes mistakes?

Do you understand that if you say a little white lie you are not only insulting God. you are breaking his commands?

do you understand that if you know to do somethign that is good. yet do not do it. it is sin, another insult to the HS.

If God loved us based on our righteousness. He would never love us. because by defenition. we are not righteous.

How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? (Hebrews 10:29)

Brother, when you sin, do you sin by accident? Do you call the oopsies? Do you deny you have sinned, because the sin is so small God does not really care?

or do you sin knowing what you are doing?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That sounds right to me.
Man does seem to take things too far.

But....
Just for the record, in the early church it was as we both wish....
The heresy was eliminated....
Not the person.

But then things changed.

I agree. in the 300's it really changed, and rome took over the church and paganised it.

But if we look in the NT.. it was not new. their were false teachers in the church the whole time..

 

[Lambano]

If God loved us based on our righteousness. He would never love us. because by defenition. we are not righteous.

Hebrews' call to "hold fast to the faith" isn't about sin, though the author does talk about that too. It's about loyalty to Jesus in the face of persecution. In the Hebrews case, it was pressure from fellow Jews. Under Nero and Domitian, it would be threats of torture, imprisonment, seizure of property, death of loved ones...

Faithfulness. That thing that Paul says a man is justified through.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hebrews' call to "hold fast to the faith" isn't about sin. It's about loyalty to Jesus in the face of persecution. In the Hebrews case, it was pressure from fellow Jews. Under Nero and Domitian, it would be threats of torture, imprisonment, seizure of property, death of loved ones...

Faithfulness. That thing that Paul says a man is justified through.

A man is justified by faith. not faithfullness.

God remains faithful even if we are faithless. He cannot deny himself

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

 

[Lambano]

A man is justified by faith. not faithfullness.

Think about what you just said.

 

[mailmandan]

Wanna make a bet?
How much?
Go check it out.

Here is what he said:

When we believe we are saved.
If we no longer believe then the believing by which we are saved was done in vain.

So much for understanding that vain belief is not and never was saving belief in the gospel.

Pay up.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Think about what you just said.

I have

I was justified ( a completed action) By faith

I trust God, just like abraham did way back in Gen 15.

Paul shows us this in romans 4:
Faith:

1. contrary to hope. in hope do we believe?
2. do we not waver at the promise to undbelief, but are we strengthened in faith giving God the glory?
3. are we fully convinced that what God promised, he can fulfill?

Abraham was.

Rom 4
18 who, contrary to hope, in hope believed
20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God,
21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform.
and because of it. God imputed, or accounted to him, to him as righteousness.

1. I was justified by grace

Romans 3:24
being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Titus 3:7
that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

2. I was redeemed and all of my sins were forgiven based on grace.

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

3. I was made alive, or born again by grace

Ephesians 2:5
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

4. I was saved by grace

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,


it is recieved in faith

Romans 3:26
to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Romans 3:28
Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1
Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

It must be by faith, so it is according to grace.

Romans 4:16
Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

Galatians 2:16
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

and it is not done by works

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Ephesians 2:9
not of works, lest anyone should boast.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

It is not faithfulness. which is ongoing.. We either trust God with confident assurance of everything he said concerning the gospel. and eternal life

or we do not.

those who may just believe, but not trust. will be exposed because they will walk away.. they are what Hebrews said those who believed in vein, it had no power to save them

 

[mailmandan]

I do not like the term OSAS.. from what I see. it causes those who are anti calvinist to go balistic..

I prefer the term eternal security. or better yet. just use the words Jesus spoke. they will never perish, they will have eternal life. they will live forever. never die. passed from death to life.. etc etc.

if people want to call that osas. thats fine.. But again, OSAS causes some people to lose it

I also prefer the terms "eternal security of the believer" (Ephesians 1:13-14) or "preservation of the saints" (Psalm 37:28) over OSAS because of all the negative connotations that typically get attached to it like (a license to sin/license for immortality etc..) by those who strongly oppose it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Here is what he said:

When we believe we are saved.
If we no longer believe then the believing by which we are saved was done in vain.

So much for understanding that vain belief is not and never was saving belief in the gospel.

Pay up.

it does not get any more clearer.

our belief at one time saved us

we lost that belief, hence our belief was in vein

by that defenition. it means our belief never saved us.. But we know JLB believes otherwise.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I also prefer the terms "eternal security of the believer" (Ephesians 1:13-14) or "preservation of the saints" (Psalm 37:28) over OSAS because of all the negative connotations that typically get attached to it like (a license to sin/license for immortality etc..) by those who strongly oppose it.

this is great, Not perseverance of the saint (we persevere) but preservation (he preserves us)
ps 37: 28
For the Lord loves justice,
And does not forsake His saints;
They are preserved forever,
But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[amigo de christo]

Think about what you just said.

caught that did ya . Be ye FAITHF UL unto death . its the same thing .

 

[amigo de christo]

it does not get any more clearer.

our belief at one time saved us

we lost that belief, hence our belief was in vein

by that defenition. it means our belief never saved us.. But we know JLB believes otherwise.

actually it does not mean that .
IT means exactly what JESUS said , HE who continues in ME
he who continues NOT is cast out .
WE have to B ELEIVE . now if any do come out they were never of us .
But to imply we are not to warn and to remind one to continue in Christ , IS BAD NEWS .
OUR BELEIF in CHRIST DID save us . And so long as we continue TO BELIEVE and not rather b e moved
away into UNBELIF .
And now a word .
WHY do i see so many christains bedding up and down WITH A HARLOT of ecumeincal inclusive interfaith .
WHO HAS SOLD UNBELIEF as OKAY .
CAUSE ITS NOT OKAY , NOT BY A LONG SHOT is UNBELIEF in JESUS okay .
And we cannot preach BELEIEF and UNBELEIF .
MANY are now p roving they are not OF HIM . they runn ing to an ecumeincal inclusive intefaith interrelious dialogue
WHICH HAS SOLD A LIE to all religoins as well as to christendom .
SORRY b ut its not okay TO CLAIM oh I BELIEVE b ut then give a pass to all them other false religoins .
IF I DID that I WOULD ONLY BE DECIEVING MYSELF and i would NOT TRULY BELEIVE ONE MUST BELEIVE to b e saved .
SO again , WHY AM I SEEING those who cliam to BELEIVE THE GOPSEL
running to a peace plan of an ecumeincal inclusive intefaith of anti christ . EITIHER WE BELIEVE
or we dont BELIEVE . but we cannot claim to BELIEVE and yet All of a sudden its okay that all these other religoins do not
LETS JUST HUG AND HAVE WORLD PEACE . cause THAT IS OF ANTI CHRIST and of ANTI ChRIST it surely is .
WHO BY this peace SHALL DESTORY MANY .

I also prefer the terms "eternal security of the believer" (Ephesians 1:13-14) or "preservation of the saints" (Psalm 37:28) over OSAS because of all the negative connotations that typically get attached to it like (a license to sin/license for immortality etc..) by those who strongly oppose it.

 

[amigo de christo]

Here is what he said:

When we believe we are saved.
If we no longer believe then the believing by which we are saved was done in vain.

So much for understanding that vain belief is not and never was saving belief in the gospel.

Pay up.

sirs what must i DO to be saved . BELIEVE YE ON JESUS THE CHRIST .
DO you truly believe one must BELIEVE ON JESUS to be saved . IF so
why would any of us ever follow ecumeincal all inclusive intefaith .
CAUSE IT DARN SURE LIED to all the false religoins and to christendom
when it sold the lie of anti christ that stated
HEY all religoins serve the same GOD a christain does . they just coming in different ways .
I MEAN EITHER WE TRULY as a child BELIEVE THE GOSPEL
or we DONT but it cannot b e both . TO b elieve BOTH does not exist .
FOR HE or she who TRULY BELIEVED THE GOSPEL OF JESUS , BELEIVE THE GOSPEL
and never beleived a lie that was sold to all the religoins and to christendom by this ecumeincal whore of al whores .
SO WHICH ONE DO WE BELEIVE . JESUS CHRIST or anti christ , cause it cannot be both .
SO which do we beleive , as do a child , THE GOSPEL that if one confesses JESUS b y mouth
and believes FROM the heart that GOD r ose him from the dead , they shall be sa ved ,
OR A LIE of intefaith . cause again IT CANNOT BE Both .
YOU , ME , NONE OF US can claim we truly BELIEVE as do a child that gospel
IF we sit at that table of ecumeincal intefaith and that LIE. all it was , IS A LIE we believed and not the truth .