Only one rapture of all the saints, and only one second coming of Christ

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rwb

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(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia.
Jerusalem, Israel:
Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

(Revelation) 17:18AKJV

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Ezekiel 16:1-23KJV
1 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
4 And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.
5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
7 I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.
8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
19 My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord God.
20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21 That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?
22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.
23 And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord God;)

Okay, but why are you separating Jerusalem from the Levitical Law?
 

Scott Downey

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Show me one verse in my post where I mention a single verse from Rev Chapter 13?

If you have a belief or claim feel free to make it, I'm not in the business of mind reading

Jesus Is The Lord
Yes Jerusalem is the city


7 When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also [a]our Lord was crucified. 9 Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations [b]will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
 
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Truth7t7

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Nope.
The city on 7 hills is Constantinople/Islamabad and the Great Whore is Mohammedanism and the AC is the coming Mahdi.
I Strongly Disagree, the future (Man Of Sin/The Beast) will be a Jew/Hebrew in Decent

Judaism is presently waiting for a Messiah from the lineage of King David, Judaism would receive a pig on a platter before they would receive a Muslim as their Messiah

The Future Human Man, The Antichrist Seen Below In (Daniel) 11:37 Will Be A Hebrew/Jew In Decent, His Fathers Worshipped The True Hebrew (God Of His Fathers)

(Daniel) 11:37KJV
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Examples: God Of His Fathers

(2 Kings) 21:22KJV
22 And he forsook the Lord God of his fathers, and walked not in the way of the Lord.

(2 Chronicles) 21:10KJV
10 So the Edomites revolted from under the hand of Judah unto this day. The same time also did Libnah revolt from under his hand; because he had forsaken the Lord God of his fathers.
 

Scott Downey

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  1. Revelation 11:8
    And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  2. Revelation 11:13
    In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  3. Revelation 14:8
    And another angel followed, saying, “Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  4. Revelation 16:19
    Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  5. Revelation 17:18
    And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  6. Revelation 18:10
    standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  7. Revelation 18:16
    and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city that was clothed in fine linen, purple, and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls!
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  8. Revelation 18:18
    and cried out when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What is like this great city?’
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  9. Revelation 18:19
    “They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and wailing, and saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city, in which all who had ships on the sea became rich by her wealth! For in one hour she is made desolate.’
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  10. Revelation 18:21

    Finality of Babylon’s Fall​

    Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, “Thus with violence the great city Babylon shall be thrown down, and shall not be found anymore.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
  11. Revelation 21:10
    And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations

That 'great city' is Jerusalem, not Rome.

34 But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black.
 
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Truth7t7

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Okay, but why are you separating Jerusalem from the Levitical Law?
As you've clearly been shown a city named "Jerusalem" is identified as the whore Mystery Babylon the Great, why do you fight against the basic truth before your eyes?

The Levitical Law was given by God, it's not the abomination or whoredom

Jerusalem is where the temple and high priest were

Jerusalem is the city built on seven Mts

Jerusalem killed the prophets

Jerusalem is the great city

Jerusalem is identified in Ezekiel 16:2

Why do you continue to fight against this biblical truth?

Jesus Is The Lord

(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman", that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia.
Jerusalem, Israel:
Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

(Revelation) 17:18AKJV

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

Ezekiel 16:1-23KJV
1 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
3 And say, Thus saith the Lord God unto Jerusalem; Thy birth and thy nativity is of the land of Canaan; thy father was an Amorite, and thy mother an Hittite.
4 And as for thy nativity, in the day thou wast born thy navel was not cut, neither wast thou washed in water to supple thee; thou wast not salted at all, nor swaddled at all.
5 None eye pitied thee, to do any of these unto thee, to have compassion upon thee; but thou wast cast out in the open field, to the lothing of thy person, in the day that thou wast born.
6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.
7 I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare.
8 Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God, and thou becamest mine.
9 Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil.
10 I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk.
11 I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck.
12 And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head.
13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,
18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
19 My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord God.
20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
21 That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them?
22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.
23 And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord God;)
 
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rebuilder 454

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Never in my life have I seen people, with zero knowledge of true end time eschatology, think they know so much when they know so little.

For instance the "SO CALLED 2ND COMING" there is no such thing as only 2 comings, that just a figment of someone's imagination. Its all about only 2 Advents, not coming only twice, LOL. We see Jesus as the Rock in the desert, we see Jesus as the Man in Linen in Dan. 12. We see Jesus in Gen. 18 and 19 as the an Abraham called Lord before he called on God the Father to reign down fire from Heaven on Sodom. We see In John 20 that Jesus told Mary "Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to the Father" [to offer the Sacrifice] then 8 days later Jesus appeared, bring back from Heaven the gift of the holy spirit, and he told Doubting Thomas to touch his wounds.

So, pretending there can only be two comings, all because people do nit understand ursa not about COMINGS per se its all about TWO ADVENTS, the Suffering Servant and the Roaring Lion King. It was never about only two comings.

Jesus returns to snatch his bride away from upon the clouds, see Rev. 14:14, he harvests us from the clouds, then he returns to rule from Jerusalem for 1000 years. I got more news for you, we the church will not be on this earth, save for only the Martyrs of Rev. 20:4 who died refusing the Mark of the Beast it CLEARLY says THEY rule and serve with Jesus 1000 years. Where will we be? Well, since God hates idleness, we will be finishing off the New Jerusalem, thus as it descends it is called the Bride of Christ. How many people does God the Son (Jesus) need to help him rule earth and keep order? Not that many. not Billion, lol. We will not remain on this earth, but the Martyrs will, they will be a reminder of the evil Beasts ways.

If you cant even get the simple stuff like the Raptures timing correct, I would never heed anything you guy say about Eschatology.
I think he is amil.
They use a different Bible.
They are just short of being a cult.
That is why you are seeing some bizarre mess and tedious nonsense.
 
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Scott Downey

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I think he is amil.
They use a different Bible.
They are just short of being a cult.
That is why you are seeing some bizarre mess and tedious nonsense.
So studying and discussing scripture is tedious and a bizarre mess... and even different bibles too..
I understand now Amil wears you out .
 

Scott Downey

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The Word Discovers Our Condition​

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
 

The Light

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Nope.
The city on 7 hills is Constantinople/Islamabad and the Great Whore is Mohammedanism
I've been doing this a long time and I don't recall hearing this before. The problem with this is that the beast will hate the whore and make her desolate. She will burn and the merchants of the world WHO HAVE BEEN MADE RICH will mourn because of this. Islamabad doesn't work.
and the AC is the coming Mahdi.
This of course fits.
 

Earburner

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Well then you deny apostolic teaching and Christ's own words

The second coming is His glorious appearing when He comes to gather His saints, and to judge the world in righteousness.

Where does Christ remain now? And until what?

Mark 12
35 Then Jesus answered and said, while He taught in the temple, “How is it that the scribes say that the Christ is the Son of David? 36 For David himself said by the Holy Spirit:

‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” ’
37 Therefore David himself calls Him ‘Lord’; how is He then his Son?”

Mark 16:19
So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.

Matthew 22:44
The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”

Do you believe the scriptures, then you will acknowledge what is said
What is the LAST ENEMY?
Until death is destroyed, Christ remains in heaven at the right hand of God, but no, YOU DENY this truth, claiming He leaves the right hand of the Father and makes multiple comings and goings while death is not yet destroyed, (which only happens at the resurrection) as everyone you too will die. And in your earthly 1000 year millennial reign with Christ on the earth, people are dying. All of this is contrary teaching to both Christ and apostolic doctrine.

1 Corinthians 15
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have [d]fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
The fallacy of pre-millennialism is that they DO understand that Christ will have three manifestations (comings), but they are in mass confusion, and therefore are at a loss as to HOW and WHEN each manifestation/coming takes place.
They are:
1. PAST- He CAME to us in mortal flesh.
2. PRESENT- He IS COMING to us by His Holy Spirit.
3. FUTURE- He SHALL COME again in the Glory of His Immortality, in flaming fire.
 
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Scott Downey

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The fallacy of pre-millennialism is that they DO understand that Christ will have three manifestations (comings), but they are in mass confusion, and therefore are at a loss as to HOW and WHEN each manifestation/coming takes place.
They are:
1. PAST- He CAME to us in mortal flesh.
2. PRESENT- He IS COMING to us by His Holy Spirit.
3. FUTURE- He SHALL COME again in the Glory of His Immortality, in flaming fire.
Well sure, He said this John 14, but this is not the rapture, or the second glorious 'bodily coming', where 'every eye will see Him, even them that pierced Him, Amen'. That coming, He will bring His angels with Him, the departed saints, and the world will see Him again.

31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the [c]holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.

Jesus Promises Another Helper​

15 “If you love Me, [d]keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Indwelling of the Father and the Son​

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and [f]manifest Myself to him.”

22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
 
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Earburner

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I think he is amil.
They use a different Bible.
They are just short of being a cult.
That is why you are seeing some bizarre mess and tedious nonsense.
In my early walk as a newly Born again Christian, I came to a severe crash in my faith due to studying the Premillennal teachings with an 8 translation NT Bible.
I pleaded with God that He would rescue me out of my confusion, and for Him alone to teach me His Word. My prayer was answered.

Ever since then of 50 years ago, I vowed to God that I would use ONLY the KJV Bible and the Strongs/Textus Receptus Greek study references, and stop reading the foolishness that is in the books of authors for PROFIT about God!!
As an Amillennial believer, I have been extremely BLESSED!!
 

JimKnox

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I've been doing this a long time and I don't recall hearing this before. The problem with this is that the beast will hate the whore and make her desolate. She will burn and the merchants of the world WHO HAVE BEEN MADE RICH will mourn because of this. Islamabad doesn't work.

This of course fits.
Ask yourself:
Since the Industrial Revolution over 120 years ago or more; what single commodity has made men the richest? I say, and history proves, it was oil. Who controls world oil production in the Middle East?
All I am saying is the entire world is beholden to the Muhlahs for oil. Without oil, all commerce comes to a halt.
BTW:.I am no novice either.
I have been watching Mohammedans since 1992. That political, religious, military, terroristic, economic organization fits eschatology better than any other that is currently held.
I do understand how strange it sounds to replace RCC with Mohammedans.
 

JimKnox

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In my early walk as a newly Born again Christian, I came to a severe crash in my faith due to studying the Premillennal teachings with an 8 translation NT Bible.
I pleaded with God that He would rescue me out of my confusion, and for Him alone to teach me His Word. My prayer was answered.

Ever since then of 50 years ago, I vowed to God that I would use ONLY the KJV Bible and the Strongs/Textus Receptus Greek study references, and stop reading the foolishness that is in the books of authors for PROFIT about God!!
As an Amillennial believer, I have been extremely BLESSED!!
I was right there with you tight up until your last sentence.
Amil is false.
 

Scott Downey

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I was right there with you tight up until your last sentence.
Amil is false.
Amil is not saying there is no 1000 years reign. Amil just says it is in heaven where Christ is and also symbolic.
Amil does not agree that Christ returns to this earth, does not destroy the wicked and unbelieving. And rules here on earth apart from God the Father who remains in heaven, while giving to His people rulership over the unsaved nations.
 
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ewq1938

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The fallacy of pre-millennialism is that they DO understand that Christ will have three manifestations (comings), but they are in mass confusion, and therefore are at a loss as to HOW and WHEN each manifestation/coming takes place.
They are:
1. PAST- He CAME to us in mortal flesh.
2. PRESENT- He IS COMING to us by His Holy Spirit.
3. FUTURE- He SHALL COME again in the Glory of His Immortality, in flaming fire.


The description of number 3 is what the bible calls as Christ coming "the second time". There are two comings not 3.

Heb_9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
 

ewq1938

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Amil is not saying there is no 1000 years reign. Amil just says it is in heaven where Christ is and also symbolic.
Amil does not agree that Christ returns to this earth, does not destroy the wicked and unbelieving. And rules here on earth apart from God the Father who remains in heaven, while giving to His people rulership over the unsaved nations.


Rev 2 and 19 prove there is rule over the nations after the second coming due to future tense verbs used alongside present tense verbs showing the rule is future past the events of the second coming. That proves a part of Amill theology to be false and in contradiction to the texts.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

https://www.blueletterbible .org/kjv/rev/19/15/t_conc_1186015

https://biblehub .com/interlinear/revelation/19-15.htm

(remove the spaces before .com and .org in the two links)


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves some mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.

A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.
 

Scott Downey

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Rev 2 and 19 prove there is rule over the nations after the second coming due to future tense verbs used alongside present tense verbs showing the rule is future past the events of the second coming. That proves a part of Amill theology to be false and in contradiction to the texts.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite (Aorist tense verb with PRESENT tense meaning) the nations: and he shall rule (FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth (PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

https://www.blueletterbible .org/kjv/rev/19/15/t_conc_1186015

https://biblehub .com/interlinear/revelation/19-15.htm

(remove the spaces before .com and .org in the two links)


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming. The treading and smiting are happening at Armageddon but not the ruling which proves some mortals will be alive after Armageddon is over. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.

A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers. They will be given power over the mortal unsaved nations after Christ has returned not before it.
The "rod of iron" is indeed the exact weak point in that style of premillennial framework. Trying to argue that unsaved, mortal rebels survive the visible, glorious second coming to populate a 1,000-year terrestrial kingdom under Christ's "rod of iron," fundamentally misreads what that phrase means and create an irreconcilable contradiction with the rest of the New Testament.

Pressing that specific weakness:

1. The Sword and the Rod of Iron Are Synonymous Judgment​

  • In Revelation 19:15, Christ comes out with a sharp sword to smite the nations, and immediately follows it with the statement that He shall rule them with a rod of iron.
  • In Psalm 2:9, which Revelation is quoting, breaking them with a "rod of iron" is parallel to dashing them in pieces like a potter's vessel. It is an act of total judicial destruction and subjugation of rebellion, not a centuries-long civil administration over surviving, unconverted human citizens.

2. Violating the Sudden Universal Destruction (2 Thessalonians 1 & Luke 17)​

  • Paul states unequivocally in 2 Thessalonians 1:7–9 that when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in flaming fire, He takes vengeance on all who do not know God, punishing them with everlasting destruction.
  • Jesus emphasized in Luke 17 that the days of Noah and Lot resulted in floodwaters and fire that "destroyed them all." There is zero room in the text for a surviving class of unsaved rebels left behind on earth to build houses, farm, and raise families while Jesus rules them physically from Jerusalem for a millennium.

3. The Logical Collapse of a "Mixed" Earth​

  • If unregenerate mortals survived the second coming into a physical earthly kingdom, you would have a bizarre, impossible scenario: people still in mortal, fallen bodies—capable of sin and rebellion—living right alongside Christ in His glory and resurrected saints in immortal bodies.
  • That directly contradicts 1 Corinthians 15:50, which declares that "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God," as well as the entire prophetic picture of the new heavens and new earth where righteousness dwells, not a prolonged, mixed-mortal geopolitical experiment.

4. Hebrews 1:13 and 1 Corinthians 15:20–28

  • The Temporal Sequence of Subjugation: Hebrews 1:13 explicitly quotes Psalm 110:1, showing that Christ sits at the right hand of God until His enemies are made His footstool, meaning the active subjugation of all hostile forces happens while He reigns from heaven.
  • The Destruction of the Final Enemy: 1 Corinthians 15:20–28 lays out the exact chronology of the end: Christ must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet, and "the last enemy that will be destroyed is death."
  • The Collapse of the Terrestrial Rule Theory: If death—the final enemy—is only destroyed at the culmination of the sequence, and the resurrection/immortality swallows up mortality at the end, it leaves no window for a prolonged, centuries-long physical political regime over surviving unsaved mortals on a pre-renewed earth. The text points to the final restoration, not a mixed-mortal geopolitical middle-age.
 

ewq1938

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The "rod of iron" is indeed the exact weak point in that style of premillennial framework.


No, rod is used to break up the nations power to fight back, leaving the individuals alive to be ruled over, which the future verb proves. The word RULE is also peaceful in definition. Amill ignores or does not know those things which is the actual weak point, among many.

The notion of breaking a nation or kingdom up so it is powerless is nothing new in scripture:

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


The kingdom of God which Christ rules will break up the existing kingdoms of the nations leaving the people powerless to rebel. This is when the reign of the rod of iron over these nations takes place for a thousand years.

There is another use of a vessel being destroyed and it is not about killing people but breaking up an organization of people who rebel against God:

Isa 30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
Isa 30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Isa 30:14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.

The metaphor of a vessel being broken is never about individuals being killed. God didn't kill every Jew. But their rebellion and sin against him caused the demise of their chosen status, even the covenant between them and God. Fast forward to the Millennium and again those who rebel against Christ shall have their wicked organizations broken up, leaving them powerless and unable to organize against Christ during this period of TIME of the reign/rule with a rod of iron. They live to be reigned over. When God allows satan to deceive them, then a brief and failed rebellion occurs and they are killed and judged and are no more forever.
 

Scott Downey

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No, rod is used to break up the nations power to fight back, leaving the individuals alive to be ruled over, which the future verb proves. The word RULE is also peaceful in definition. Amill ignores or does not know those things which is the actual weak point, among many.

The notion of breaking a nation or kingdom up so it is powerless is nothing new in scripture:

Dan 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Dan 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.


The kingdom of God which Christ rules will break up the existing kingdoms of the nations leaving the people powerless to rebel. This is when the reign of the rod of iron over these nations takes place for a thousand years.

There is another use of a vessel being destroyed and it is not about killing people but breaking up an organization of people who rebel against God:

Isa 30:12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
Isa 30:13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.
Isa 30:14 And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.

The metaphor of a vessel being broken is never about individuals being killed. God didn't kill every Jew. But their rebellion and sin against him caused the demise of their chosen status, even the covenant between them and God. Fast forward to the Millennium and again those who rebel against Christ shall have their wicked organizations broken up, leaving them powerless and unable to organize against Christ during this period of TIME of the reign/rule with a rod of iron. They live to be reigned over. When God allows satan to deceive them, then a brief and failed rebellion occurs and they are killed and judged and are no more forever.
Regardless, it just does not fit what Paul says happens with the return of Christ in 2 Thessalonians 1, does it.