Who goes back with Jesus in the pre-tribulation rapture?

[David in NJ]

YES

What if = In our resurrected spiritual bodies, the flesh realm cannot see us?

 

[CrowCross]

How can a thousand years equate to literal time since the souls John sees in heaven are still alive after they have physically been martyred for their faith?

When they were physically alive, they were faithful unto death. John writes "they lived and reigned with Chris a thousand years." They could not have lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years of time while on the earth, because no human beings have lived then died for ONE thousand physical years after the flood of Noah's day.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Genesis 6:3 (KJV) And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Another problem with believing a/the thousand years physically represents ONE thousand years of time on this earth, is explaining how others who are not numbered with the martyred souls alive "shall reign with Him a thousand years" also. How can others reign with Christ for one thousand years but not be numbered among the souls John sees alive who had already lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years?

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

We find the answer for this conundrum in vs 5. They "the rest of the dead" will not live again until after the thousand years were finished. Since they won't live again until after the thousand years have ended, we cannot say a/the thousand years literally represent time for living on this earth for ONE thousand years.

Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

The other thing that makes no sense is to argue a/the thousand years of time is future and will come when Christ comes again. Because when Christ returns it will be FOREVER. And it will not be on this earth but shall be after this first earth has passed away. That will be in the hour coming when the seventh/last trumpet begins to sound that time given this earth wherein man must be saved shall be no longer. That is when "the rest of the dead" shall live again either clothed in immortal/incorruptible flesh or clothed in natural flesh destined to the lake of fire that is the second death.

Re 10:5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
Re 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Re 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

The only way to make sense of Rev 20 comes when we understand a/the thousand years does not equate to ONE thousand physical years of time on this earth. But is symbolically written to represent time when faithful saints began to live and reign with Christ through His cross and this symbolic a/the thousand years shall be ended when the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete.

Speaking of the 1,000 years...
Isaiah 65:20
No more shall there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not fill out his days, for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

 

[David in NJ]

About what? Stop talking so evasively and vaguely. Are you scared of your doctrine being examined?

1,000 year promise

 

[CrowCross]

What if = In our resurrected spiritual bodies, the flesh realm cannot see us?

You will have a resurrected glorified physical body....as well as a spiritual element.

 

[rwb]

Ezekiel 28:13.....You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, sardius, topaz, and diamond, beryl, onyx, and jasper, sapphire, emerald, and carbuncle; and crafted in gold were your settings and your engravings. On the day that you were created they were prepared.

Satan was in the garden of Eden in an un-fallen state. Eden was after creation. This means Satan didn't fall prior to the creation of earth.

Secondly God said His creation was VERY good. If Satan...a created being... had fallen prior to creation then His creation wasn't VERY good.

When we read of the serpent in the beginning it metaphorically represents Satan at creation when all things in heaven and earth were created in six literal days. I agree the Bible does not speak of the creation of Satan before the six days of creation. The opinion that Satan was created good before creation must be read into the Scriptures because it is not found from the Scriptures.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

And one more thing for you to consider, according to Scripture Satan was from the beginning at creation called a liar and murderer. He is never represented in Scripture as being a bright and shining as a star from heaven. Which is how the name Lucifer is defined. For that reason it is error to assume Lucifer in Isa 14:12 is a name for Satan.

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

 

[WPM]

Ahhhhhhh...NEXT

This is the most common Pretib tactic on online forums today - avoid and run. This is a sad indictment on what you promote. It cannot abide biblical scrutiny.

 

[WPM]

1,000 year promise

What 1,000 year mentions or promises do you have in Genesis? Please list them. I do not see any.

 

[rwb]

Satan fell between day 6 and the fall of Adam.

Now, once again I ask....where does the bible say Satan fell prior to creation?

Nowhere does Scripture speak of Satan being created before the beginning when God created all things in heaven and earth in six literal days. Nor does Scripture tell us Satan fell. He is depicted as the serpent created more cunning and crafty than any other beast of the field that God created. From the New Testament we find serpent is a metaphor for Satan CREATED "more subtil" [cunning & crafty in a bad sense] than any beast of the field. The prophet Isaiah writes that God formed the light and created darkness, and He created evil. It is my belief that God created the serpent representing Satan to test human kind.

Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I m ake peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

[rwb]

I but my pillows from Mike Lindell.

So do I! We LOVE them!

 

[David in NJ]

What 1,000 year mentions or promises do you have in Genesis? Please list them. I do not see any.

Well now, not any one of us can truly SEE unless we submit to God and ask God in faith.

God also gave to us basic reading skills thru His words in Genesis.

But if we begin to argue against "It is written" then we rely on our own intellectual concepts as well as that from others.

 

[David in NJ]

You will have a resurrected glorified physical body....as well as a spiritual element.

Maybe

 

[WPM]

Well now, not any one of us can truly SEE unless we submit to God and ask God in faith.

God also gave to us basic reading skills thru His words in Genesis.

But if we begin to argue against "It is written" then we rely on our own intellectual concepts as well as that from others.

You are avoiding the question! Where does it mention or teach a future millennial kingdom in Genesis? I suspect by your avoidance you know it is not in there.

 

[rwb]

All you did was present a teaching that 1,000 means "completion" in this instance.
Why would satan be released at the end of this symbolic time frame? How does that work?

Because the time, symbolically called a/the thousand years for Satan being locked in a pit will end when time given this earth for building the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete. Then Satan will be set free from his pit for a little season just before Christ shall come again.

All time given this earth for proclaiming the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ will end when the last gentile to be saved has been born again. Satan shall be loosed just long enough (little season) for him to gather together all who are alive on earth who are deceived by him. One last time Satan will try to defeat Christ and keep Him from completing the Kingdom of God in heaven (Church). When it appears he will be victorious, those still alive in Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, the graves shall be opened and the dead in Christ will be together with them. Then God will send down fire from heaven to burn up this earth along with everyone and everything still alive on it. Then there will not be one thousand more years of time. Then after this first heaven and earth have passed away there will be a new heaven and new earth where faithful saints shall live and reign with Christ FOREVER [not for one thousand more years].

 

[David in NJ]

You are avoiding the question! Where does it mention or teach a future millennial kingdom in Genesis? I suspect by your avoidance you know it is not in there.

You are avoiding the truth in Genesis.

 

[CrowCross]

When we read of the serpent in the beginning it metaphorically represents Satan at creation when all things in heaven and earth were created in six literal days. I agree the Bible does not speak of the creation of Satan before the six days of creation. The opinion that Satan was created good before creation must be read into the Scriptures because it is not found from the Scriptures.

Exodus 20:11 (KJV) For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

And one more thing for you to consider, according to Scripture Satan was from the beginning at creation called a liar and murderer. He is never represented in Scripture as being a bright and shining as a star from heaven. Which is how the name Lucifer is defined. For that reason it is error to assume Lucifer in Isa 14:12 is a name for Satan.

John 8:44 (KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Isaiah 14:12 (KJV) How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Ez 28:15...You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.

Unrighteousness was found in satan after he was created....after he walked in the garden of Eden in an un-fallen state yet prior to the temptation in the garden.

 

[CrowCross]

Nowhere does Scripture speak of Satan being created before the beginning when God created all things in heaven and earth in six literal days. Nor does Scripture tell us Satan fell. He is depicted as the serpent created more cunning and crafty than any other beast of the field that God created. From the New Testament we find serpent is a metaphor for Satan CREATED "more subtil" [cunning & crafty in a bad sense] than any beast of the field. The prophet Isaiah writes that God formed the light and created darkness, and He created evil. It is my belief that God created the serpent representing Satan to test human kind.

See above post.

using the bible as support....show me where it says satan fell prior to the creation of the world.

Genesis 3:1 (KJV) Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) I form the light, and create darkness: I m ake peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 is a bad translation. It doesn't follow the "poetic" parallel often used in the bible.

For example peace isn't the opposite of evil.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You need more AI to get answers for you. This way you don't have to learn.

What are you talking about? AI?!

You are making excuses because you can’t refute my testimony biblically like I did.

 

[CrowCross]

Maybe

You don't seem to understand the fullness of a christians hope.

 

[CrowCross]

What are you talking about? AI?!

You are making excuses because you can’t refute my testimony biblically like I did.

You presented NOTHING concerning when Satan fell.

I pointed out satan walked in the garden in an un-fallen state. Show me where I'm wrong.

 

[CrowCross]

Because the time, symbolically called a/the thousand years for Satan being locked in a pit will end when time given this earth for building the Kingdom of God in heaven is complete. Then Satan will be set free from his pit for a little season just before Christ shall come again.

Satan is currently free. Not in the pit.

All time given this earth for proclaiming the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ will end when the last gentile to be saved has been born again. Satan shall be loosed just long enough (little season) for him to gather together all who are alive on earth who are deceived by him.

Some people in error say we currently are in Satans little season.

One last time Satan will try to defeat Christ and keep Him from completing the Kingdom of God in heaven (Church). When it appears he will be victorious, those still alive in Christ will be caught up to meet the Lord in the clouds, the graves shall be opened and the dead in Christ will be together with them.

The rapture occur 7 years prior to the tribulation....and before the literal 1,000 year reign.
When you discern the headlines you conclude Jesus return is very close.

Then God will send down fire from heaven to burn up this earth along with everyone and everything still alive on it. Then there will not be one thousand more years of time. Then after this first heaven and earth have passed away there will be a new heaven and new earth where faithful saints shall live and reign with Christ FOREVER [not for one thousand more years].

The new Jerusalem coming down is after the 1,000 year reign of Christ.