Cleansing by the Word

[Lizbeth]

Sorry amigo I need things much clearer and straighforward. I am not sure what you are saying. Probably my autism.

I believe amigo is referring to this passage:

1Jo 5:9-13

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


Episkopos believes and teaches that there are those who don't believe who are saved by their own righteousness, apart from believing in the Son. Therefore according to this scripture he is making God a liar.

 

[Hepzibah]

I believe amigo is referring to this passage:

1Jo 5:9-13

If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


Episkopos believes and teaches that there are those who don't believe who are saved by their own righteousness, apart from believing in the Son. Therefore according to this scripture he is making God a liar.

Yes thank you. I agree.

 

[ScottA]

Why is it so important to have our consciences cleansed by the word of God? What is the difference between having our consciences cleansed and being washed by the Blood of the Lamb into holiness?

Interestingly the video wasn't working when I first looked at the thread. And reading a later post that seemed to explain it, I did have a comment.

This thread is about "Cleansing by the word", which is important to understand--and you did a great job explaining it. And yet, that is not all there is. Cleansing is the first thing that needs to be before getting to all that God has in store. Which is to say, that the cleansing is a basic or even elementary need before getting to the higher things of God, as His ways are higher--and all that is also promised and available to those who seek God first. Even so, there is no requirement to go beyond the cleansing in this lifetime--we have all eternity for that, and God is good to welcome us as we are, if indeed we will come as a child.

 

[Episkopos]

Interestingly the video wasn't working when I first looked at the thread. And reading a later post that seemed to explain it, I did have a comment.

This thread is about "Cleansing by the word", which is important to understand--and you did a great job explaining it. And yet, that is not all there is. Cleansing is the first thing that needs to be before getting to all that God has in store. Which is to say, that the cleansing is a basic or even elementary need before getting to the higher things of God, as His ways are higher--and all that is also promised and available to those who seek God first. Even so, there is no requirement to go beyond the cleansing in this lifetime--we have all eternity for that, and God is good to welcome us as we are, if indeed we will come as a child.

Good comments. I was wondering if you could add what you said to the actual video. It's good to get different perspectives that can add to the initial episode.

 

[Lizbeth]

My point is full victory over sin and walking in holiness IS OVERCOMING AND WALKING AS CHRIST DID, in holiness over sin.

Rev 2:10 is a message to the church of Smyrna, but you forgot verse 11 which says:
11¶He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 3:21 is a message to the church of Laodicea, what we are living in our time.
For context here is Rev. 3:14-21

"14¶And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22¶He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Jesus overcame death because the soul that sins it shall die (Ez. 18:4). Death could not hold Jesus because He NEVER sinned. Romans 6:23 confirms Ezekiel 18:4 when it says "the wages of sin is death". All of mankind have sinned, so we all shall see death (physical), HOWEVER, Rev. 2:11 should comfort us because: "He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death."

It is on us to overcome.
We have this gift of life from God. Today is the day of salvation. Be holy as God is holy.
Let us make our calling and election sure!

So again, do you understand WHAT we are to overcome?

Peace

What do you make of these scriptures below?


1 John 5:4-5

For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


1Jo 4:4

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.


When I checked, I found that the word "overcome" is translated from the Greek word "nikao"……..in the scripture below the word for "conquerors" is the Greek word "hyper-nikao"….meaning we are more than overcomers through Christ.


Rom 8:34-37

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors (hypernikao) through him that loved us.

 

[ScottA]

People claim to be Spirit filled even as they sin. The truth is made to conform (is lowered) and to fit into the reality on the ground..which is based on unbelief.

There are indeed those who manipulate the scriptures to fit their own beliefs that are not actually true.

However, sin is not a sure or reliable proof of unbelief. We who are born again--because the body of flesh is born of flesh, and the new body within born of the spirit of God, are two different bodies--we are as one only half-cleansed, alive in the spirit, but yet dead in the flesh. With that war and sword within us, we do continue to struggle with is--like a tug-of-war--until the body of flesh passes. Thus, it is written and given "But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.” Which we do by disciplining our flesh "body and bring it into subjection" under the Spirit. Which most fail at (or lie about), and yet endure.

 

[Episkopos]

There are indeed those who manipulate the scriptures to fit their own beliefs that are not actually true.

However, sin is not a sure or reliable proof of unbelief. We who are born again--because the body of flesh is born of flesh, and the new body within born of the spirit of God, are two different bodies--we are as one only half-cleansed, alive in the spirit, but yet dead in the flesh. With that war and sword within us, we do continue to struggle with is--like a tug-of-war--until the body of flesh passes. Thus, it is written and given "But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.” Which we do by disciplining our flesh "body and bring it into subjection" under the Spirit. Which most fail at (or lie about), and yet endure.

Sin is the proof that we are not walking in the full measure of grace. God says...My grace is sufficient for you. Sufficient for what?

Victory over sin is the full salvation. It is about glory. But there is salvation as an inheritance for those who are not victorious in their walk. Salvation (as an inheritance) is at a lower standard than glory requires. God is merciful on the righteous. And the righteous will sin, since they are walking in their own power. Only a power from heaven allows us to be victorious over sin.

All that call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Not glorified....saved. BUT, many are called and few are chosen...into salvation? NO, into glory.

So unless we are seeing a difference between mercy and glory....we will not see how God's ways (plural) apply.

 

[Episkopos]

The saints are empowered from heaven to be an overcomer as Jesus overcame. How? By abiding in Christ and walking in HIS resurrection life. The New Jerusalem, the holy city, is their citizenship.

The saved are destined for the nations in the next age. The nations of them that are saved. These are ruled over by the saints. The saved include the righteous, the meek, the merciful. the faithful, and all who DO the will of God.

Believers congregate together in human run institutions.

Disciples of Christ come out of anything that is not under the Headship of Christ. There is no organization that can represent them.

 

[MostlyConfused]

Thankfully I'm not claiming anything for myself then.

But I do seem to be able to grasp some things by grace, such as that we need to have love for the brethren at any stage of their journey with the Lord, and not be respecters of persons based on whether they agree with us on everything or not, and also that we are to consider others more highly than ourselves. Or do those things only apply to those in a "lower walk"?

Is it considering someone as higher than yourself to compare them to a crocodile? Asking for a friend.

 

[ScottA]

Sin is the proof that we are not walking in the full measure of grace. God says...My grace is sufficient for you. Sufficient for what?

Victory over sin is the full salvation. It is about glory. But there is salvation as an inheritance for those who are not victorious in their walk. Salvation (as an inheritance) is at a lower standard than glory requires. God is merciful on the righteous. And the righteous will sin, since they are walking in their own power. Only a power from heaven allows us to be victorious over sin.

All that call on the name of the Lord will be saved. Not glorified....saved. BUT, many are called and few are chosen...into salvation? NO, into glory.

So unless we are seeing a difference between mercy and glory....we will not see how God's ways (plural) apply.

Ah, nnnn...no, there is no hierarchy within the body of Christ, and all in the body of Christ become One in God, as they are One. Thus, salvation is all to God's glory, nothing lacking.

"My grace is sufficient for you"--came to Paul, who struggled and because of it "persevered" to the end, finishing the race. It is by his example that we too should expect to persevere and complete our own race unto the end--carrying the old man of sin through to the end of our being fully revealed, once to die--though we shall surely live, and be counted as righteous in Christ Jesus.