The Two Anointed Ones = The Two Witnesses

[Earburner]

Use the combined term - the resurrection/rapture.

I don't know how YOU are meaning the word "Rapture".
Because of false beliefs about the so called: "The Rapture", I refrain from using that word, for reasons of accidently leading people astray into a FALSE hope. I once believed in that theory 100%, until God revealed to me how fabricated that doctrine really is.

 

[ewq1938]

So now we are calling the resurrection of all the Saints, a "Rapture" and NOT the resurrection??

No.

Like the Pharisees, all literalists live in a man made "word salad".

Scripture is a mixture of literal and symbolic.

 

[ewq1938]

I don't listen to the guess work of "philosophers", nor do I agree with the interpretation of the Greek by "Gill".
For the "elements" in 2 Peter 3:10, I reference "Strongs" only:

Strong's Number - G4747
Element: Greek: στοιχεῖον
Transliteration: stoicheion
Pronunciation: stoy-khi'-on
Definition: Neuter of a presumed derivative of the base of G4748; something orderly in arrangement that is (by implication) a serial (basal fundamental 6
initial) constituent (literally) proposition (figuratively): - element, principle, rudiment.
KJV Usage: element (4x), rudiment (2x), principle (1x).
Occurs: 7
In verses: 7

You have never heard of The Periodic Table of the Elements (of the earth) in Chemistry?

It is not what the Greek word refers to, and what it does refer to is related to Heaven not the Earth in the verse. Gill is correct on this matter and matches what Strong's says.

 

[ewq1938]

Oh please, stop splitting hairs over common words in discussion!!
When Jesus returns (as said), we who are alive and remain SHALL BE CHANGED.....aka resurrected.

Wrong. No one alive is resurrected for obvious reasons.

 

[Douggg]

I don't know how YOU are meaning the word "Rapture".
Because of false beliefs about the so called: "The Rapture", I refrain from using the word, for reasons of accidently leading people astray into a FALSE hope. I once believed in that theory 100%, until God revealed to me how fabricated it really is.

Rapture as changed in the twinkling of an eye, caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

 

[Earburner]

Now, getting back to the original topic of this thread, there is a problem about the Two witnesses "to come" in Rev. 11:11-12, and THEIR Resurrection.

How can the Two witnesses to come be resurrected long years after Jesus' resurrection, and not be included in OUR resurrection when Jesus returns?
Please recall that Rev. 11:11-12 reveals that the two witnesses to come will indeed DIE.
Rev. 11:11. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Please pay attention here. Many today believe that the Two witnesses "to come" are going to be resurrected LONG YEARS AFTER Jesus' resurrection, and THEN not be a part of OUR resurrection, when Jesus returns.(??)
THE two witnesses to come will be a separate resurrection???
I don't think so at all!!

Of all people in all the world, the ONLY two people who were ever physically born HAVING the permanent indwelling (anointed) of God's Holy Spirit, WERE John the Baptist and Jesus.
For 3.5 years, as a Joint ministry In the flesh, they truly were the Two Witnesses.

 

[Earburner]

It is not what the Greek word refers to, and what it does refer to is related to Heaven not the Earth in the verse. Gill is correct on this matter and matches what Strong's says.

I quoted Strong's and Strong's says nothing of what you want to believe.

 

[Earburner]

Rapture as changed in the twinkling of an eye, caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

As in 2 Thes. 1:7-10, correct?

Edit:
Let me be specific-
2 Thes. 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, WHEN the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 WHEN he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

Q. WHEN is WHEN??
 A. 1 Cor. 15:52-53
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we [who are alive] shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

In Luke 17:28-30 Jesus described that day of WHEN He comes as being a simultaneous event within one 24 hour day.

> 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the SAME [24 hour] day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day WHEN the Son of man is revealed [from heaven] [in flaming fire].

 

[Douggg]

THE two witnesses are a separate resurrection???
I don't think so at all!!

Their bodies come back to life after laying dead in the streets of Jerusalem, but they are not "resurrected" out of a grave.

 

[Douggg]

As in 2 Thes. 1:7-10, correct?

No, changed in the twinkling of an eye in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

 

[ewq1938]

Now, getting back to the original topic of this thread, there is a problem about the Two witnesses "to come" in Rev. 11:11-12, and THEIR Resurrection.

How can the Two witnesses to come be resurrected long years after Jesus' resurrection, and not be included in OUR resurrection when Jesus returns?
Please recall that Rev. 11:11-12 reveals that the two witnesses to come will indeed DIE.
Rev. 11:11. And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Please pay attention here. Many today believe that the Two witnesses "to come" are going to be resurrected LONG YEARS AFTER Jesus' resurrection, and THEN not be a part of OUR resurrection, when Jesus returns.(??)
THE two witnesses to come will be a separate resurrection???
I don't think so at all!!

Of all people in all the world, the ONLY two people who were ever physically born HAVING the permanent indwelling (anointed) of God's Holy Spirit, WERE John the Baptist and Jesus.
For 3.5 years, as a Joint ministry In the flesh, they truly were the Two Witnesses.

Did John and Jesus die at the same time? The two prophets of Rev 11 die at the same time, and lay dead only for 3.5 days and resurrect at the same moment. How can they be John and Jesus?

 

[Earburner]

Did John and Jesus die at the same time? The two prophets of Rev 11 die at the same time, and lay dead only for 3.5 days and resurrect at the same moment. How can they be John and Jesus?

As you do know, much of Rev. is signified/coded by the angel, who received the words of Rev. to give to John. Therefore the 3.5 days is not to be taken literal but rather figurative, which is meaning the 3.5 years of the Joint ministry of John the Baptist was for 6 mos. and Jesus was for 3.0 years.
Because both were physically born having the Holy Spirit, no one could "suffer"/cause them to be kept in a grave. Spiritually, they NEVER died, whereas everyone who does die, having NOT the Gift of the Holy Spirt, "shall surely die", forever.

1 Cor. 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[Truth7t7]

Oh please, stop splitting hairs over common words in discussion!!
When Jesus returns (as said), we who are alive and remain SHALL BE CHANGED.....aka resurrected.

Being changed from mortal to immortal isn't a "Resurrection" it's that simple, try using the correct terminology

 

[Truth7t7]

As you do know, much of Rev. is signified/coded by the angel, who received the words of Rev. to give to John. Therefore the 3.5 days is not to be taken literal but rather figurative, which is meaning the 3.5 years of the Joint ministry of John the Baptist for 6 mos. and Jesus for 3.0 years.
Because both were born having the Holy Spirit, no one could "suffer"/cause them to be kept in a grave. Spiritually, they NEVER died, whereas everyone who does die, having NOT the Gift of the Holy Spirt, "shall surely die", forever.

1 Cor. 2
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The (Two Witnesses) will have literal bodies that die, and lay in a literal Jerusalem street for 3.5 literal days as a literal world watches their dead bodies, this literal unsaved worlds population will exchange literal gifts with one another celebrating their deaths because the (Two Witnesses) have tormented the wicked world through literal plagues brought by themselves, a complete "Future" literal remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt for 1260 literal days

After the (Two Witnesses) are literally raised to heaven in the sight of the unsaved world a literal great earthquake takes place in Jerusalem as the 2nd woe is complete, the 3rd woe takes place in the 7th Angel/Trump sounding (The End) as the final judgment takes place in Rev 11:18

Jesus Is The Lord

(Future Literal Events Unfulfilled)

Revelation 11:3-19KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

[Earburner]

No, changed in the twinkling of an eye in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Sorry, if you have the Holy Spirit, you need to think with "the Mind of Christ", and not with your linear thinking, rational mind of flesh, which for the Bible, is only good for two things, and that is, reading the literal words, and when to turn the page.
1 Cor. 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Earburner]

Being changed from mortal to immortal isn't a "Resurrection" it's that simple, try using the correct terminology

Oh really??
For all who have mortally died in faith believing in Jesus, THEY HAVE ALREADY SHED their body of corrupted flesh. It is they who are now in the Spirit of the Holy Spirit, asleep in Jesus. They are simply waiting to receive the last half of their faith, and that is a NEW BODY that is IMMORTAL, the fulness of their resurrection

We who are alive in our mortal flesh and remain,
in the midst of us being "changed in a twinkling of an eye", in an instant we must also physically DIE and SHED our DEAD bodies also, and then resurrect in order to BECOME that which is the IMMORTAL, NEW BODY.

That is called a RESURRECTION. We are resurrected from the DEAD mortal body INTO a NEW BODY that is IMMORTAL.
The grave is just a place of holding for our DEAD mortal flesh.

 

[Truth7t7]

Oh really??
For all who have mortally died in faith believing in Jesus, THEY HAVE ALREADY SHED their body of corrupted flesh. It is they who are now in the Spirit of the Holy Spirit, asleep in Jesus. They are simply waiting to receive the last half of their faith, and that is a NEW BODY that is IMMORTAL, the fulness of their resurrection

We who are alive in our mortal flesh and remain,
in the midst of us being "changed in a twinkling of an eye", in an instant we must also physically DIE and SHED our DEAD bodies also, and then resurrect in order to BECOME that which is the IMMORTAL, NEW BODY.

That is called a RESURRECTION. We are resurrected from the DEAD mortal body INTO a NEW BODY that is IMMORTAL.
The grave is just a place of holding.

False

Only those in the grave will be resurrected and those saved that are living "Will Be Changed" not resurrected

Jesus returns in fire, all men will be tested by this fire, the righteous saved will pass through it to the eternal kingdom, the unsaved wicked will be caught in it for eternity (The Lake Of Fire)

1 Corinthians 3:13-15KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[ewq1938]

As you do know, much of Rev. is signified/coded by the angel, who received the words of Rev. to give to John. Therefore the 3.5 days is not to be taken literal but rather figurative, which is meaning the 3.5 years of the Joint ministry of John the Baptist was for 6 mos. and Jesus was for 3.0 years.
Because both were physically born having the Holy Spirit, no one could "suffer"/cause them to be kept in a grave.

They both were in graves, years apart. The two prophets bodies are not put in a grave and they are only dead for days, not hundreds of years like John and Jesus.

Spiritually, they NEVER died,

So? This is true of all humans. A person dies and goes to either heaven or hades and waits for their future resurrection.

whereas everyone who does die, having NOT the Gift of the Holy Spirt, "shall surely die", forever.

The two prophets are killed and die physically at the same time. That did not happen to John and Christ.

 

[Earburner]

False

Only those in the grave will be resurrected and those saved that are living "Will Be Changed" not resurrected.

When you are changed from mortality to Immortality in an instance, in a twinkling of an eye, in a flash of light, or in a millisecond, one has been resurrected from death unto eternal life and Immortality. The grave and all the dead, rotting, mortal bodies of millennia have nothing to do with it at all.

Jesus returns in fire, all men will be tested by this fire, the righteous saved will pass through it to the eternal kingdom, the unsaved wicked will be caught in it for eternity (The Lake Of Fire)

1 Corinthians 3:13-15KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

John 3
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, BECAUSE he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(Back to 2 Thes. 1:7-10).

 

[Earburner]

They both were in graves, years apart. The two prophets bodies are not put in a grave and they are only dead for days, not hundreds of years like John and Jesus.

THE FACT IS: no one was able to "suffer" (cause) the immortal bodies of Jesus and John, after their resurrection, to be KEPT in graves.
The OC saints (as was John the Baptist) resurrected from their graves right AFTER Jesus' resurrection. Mat. 27:50-54.

These are they who went up in a cloud when Jesus Ascended. Surely you don't think that all those that resurrected after Jesus did, were then sent back to their graves, to DIE AGAIN?? No, they ascended with Him.
Whether you understand it or not, Jesus Himself was/IS "THE First Resurrection".

So? This is true of all humans. A person dies and goes to either heaven or hades and waits for their future resurrection.

Absolutely NOT!! No one has an eternally living soul. That theory is a blatant religious LIE.