Two Witnesses - A Biblical Perspective

[Earburner]

This is not true! After His resurrection, before Pentecost, Christ breathed first on His disciples, imputing the Holy Spirit unto them.

John 20:22 (KJV) And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Yes, the immediate 12 disciples received the power of the Holy Spirit that would be used through them for the purpose of beginning the early church. People outside of the 12 did not receive the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit until AFTER Jesus Ascended, which was the day of Pentecost.

 

[CrowCross]

The Bible does NOT teach that the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11 are two literal men who suddenly appear at the end of the world or even the first century. Revelation itself identifies them symbolically:

I would say the bible uses symbolism from time to time to explain people and events.

We know Jesus isn't a literal gate hanging on a gate post....

Your problem is when you assign meaning to the proposed symbolism in Revelation...the sky's the limit. You can make it say whatever you want the "symbolism" to say.

Tell me why Rev 8 can't be describing the April 13th 2029 event of Apophis?

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree!
Now, do you agree that it is true about John the Baptist and Jesus, that only they WERE the two witnesses as prophesied in Zech. 3:8-10 and 4:6-7, 10-14?

Please remember that the book of Revelation is about past, present and future events.
It's not all about the future only.

Concerning biblical prophecy, unfortunately two notable Theologins of the 1800s have steered church-ianity far off course, and MANY Christians have followed their blatant and cloaked LIES. Namely: Darby and Schofield

No I Disagree

Rev Chapter 11 shows the "Future" (Two Witnesses) in physical living bodies that die "Literally" upon this earth

Jesus Is immortal and eternal sitting at the right hand of the Father presently, Jesus will never be in a physical body upon this earth again, let alone die a physical death

"No" you're not going to take the future, physical, literal (Two Witnesses) and use symbolic allegory in changing scripture

Jesus Is Lord

 

[TribulationSigns]

You have the same problem as the Pharisees had with Jesus, they wanted proof of who He was. You want proof from me of why I believe that John the Baptist and Jesus are the fulfillment of Rev. 11.
As Jesus did provide scripture to the Pharisees of who he was, so also have provided the scriptures that support my belief. It's not my fault that you cannot hear the voice of the Holy Spirit for you in that regard. It is apparent to me that you have an alternative belief that is deep rooted, and therefore you are defending.

You seem obsessed with calling me a Pharisee every time I ask you to prove your interpretation from Scripture. Calling me a Pharisee is not an answer. It is becoming a convenient way for you to avoid the question for all to see!

And your comparison is backwards. The problem with the Pharisees was not that they asked questions or examined claims. Jesus Himself appealed to the Scriptures as testimony concerning Him (John 5:39, 46). Paul reasoned from the Scriptures (Acts 17:2), and the Bereans were praised for searching the Scriptures daily to test what Paul taught (Acts 17:11).

So testing your teaching against Scripture is not “Pharisaism.” It is biblical discernment. Hello?

You say you have provided Scriptures supporting your belief. No—you have provided Scriptures showing that John was important, Spirit-filled, came in the spirit and power of Elijah, and testified concerning Christ. I have never disputed any of that.

What you have not demonstrated is the conclusion you keep attaching to those verses:

Therefore Jesus Christ and John the Baptist are the two olive trees, two candlesticks, and Two Witnesses of Revelation 11.

That's the missing link.

And saying, “It's not my fault you cannot hear the voice of the Holy Spirit,” only makes your reasoning more circular: “My interpretation is from the Holy Spirit; if you disagree with my interpretation, you cannot hear the Holy Spirit.” That makes your interpretation conveniently impossible to challenge.

No. The Holy Spirit inspired the Word, and teachings are tested by that Word.

So please stop hiding behind the Pharisee accusation. I'm not asking you to prove who Jesus is. I'm asking you to prove your interpretation of Revelation 11.

After all these posts, you still haven't done that. Calling me spiritually deaf does not fill the enormous exegetical hole in your argument.

Grow up. After all these exchanges, you STILL HAVE NOT provided the biblical proof you were repeatedly asked to provide. Your position remains refuted, and repeatedly calling me a Pharisee does nothing to rescue it.

— Zipped. — No more conversation with you here. Go bother someone else with the endless detours while you continue digging yourself deeper into interpretive error. I have no interest in going around the same circle with you again.

 

[Earburner]

This is not true! After His resurrection, before Pentecost, Christ breathed first on His disciples, imputing the Holy Spirit unto them.

John 20:22 (KJV) And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

I already agreed with you.
In my thoughts, I was speaking torwards the whole of mankind, that the Holy Spirit ("rain") is now available to all who repent towards God and believe in Jesus.

 

[Earburner]

You seem obsessed with calling me a Pharisee every time I ask you to prove your interpretation from Scripture. Calling me a Pharisee is not an answer. It is becoming a convenient way for you to avoid the question for all to see!

And your comparison is backwards. The problem with the Pharisees was not that they asked questions or examined claims. Jesus Himself appealed to the Scriptures as testimony concerning Him (John 5:39, 46). Paul reasoned from the Scriptures (Acts 17:2), and the Bereans were praised for searching the Scriptures daily to test what Paul taught (Acts 17:11).

So testing your teaching against Scripture is not “Pharisaism.” It is biblical discernment. Hello?

You say you have provided Scriptures supporting your belief. No—you have provided Scriptures showing that John was important, Spirit-filled, came in the spirit and power of Elijah, and testified concerning Christ. I have never disputed any of that.

What you have not demonstrated is the conclusion you keep attaching to those verses:

Therefore Jesus Christ and John the Baptist are the two olive trees, two candlesticks, and Two Witnesses of Revelation 11.

That's the missing link.

And saying, “It's not my fault you cannot hear the voice of the Holy Spirit,” only makes your reasoning more circular: “My interpretation is from the Holy Spirit; if you disagree with my interpretation, you cannot hear the Holy Spirit.” That makes your interpretation conveniently impossible to challenge.

No. The Holy Spirit inspired the Word, and teachings are tested by that Word.

So please stop hiding behind the Pharisee accusation. I'm not asking you to prove who Jesus is. I'm asking you to prove your interpretation of Revelation 11.

After all these posts, you still haven't done that. Calling me spiritually deaf does not fill the enormous exegetical hole in your argument.

Grow up. After all these exchanges, you STILL HAVE NOT provided the biblical proof you were repeatedly asked to provide. Your position remains refuted, and repeatedly calling me a Pharisee does nothing to rescue it.

— Zipped. — No more conversation with you here. Go bother someone else with the endless detours while you continue digging yourself deeper into interpretive error. I have no interest in going around the same circle with you again.

You still need more proof, after the many scriptures that I have already provided??
Okay then, here is more scripture in my sharing of His Truth of how John the Baptist was the ONLY witness of who Jesus was, and Jesus was the ONLY witness of who God the Father is.

I didn't know that it "bothered" you to know that God foretold of that time, about his two anointed ones: "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by [for] the Lord of the whole earth." Zech. 4:14.

So then, did you happen to see and understand Zech. 3:8-10?
8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
9 For behold the "stone" that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.

 

[TribulationSigns]

You still need more proof, after the many scriptures that I have already provided??
Okay then, here is more scripture in my sharing of His Truth of how John the Baptist was the ONLY witness of who Jesus was, and Jesus was the ONLY witness of who God the Father is.

I didn't know that it "bothered" you to know that God foretold of that time, about his two anointed ones: "These are the two anointed ones, that stand by [for] the Lord of the whole earth." Zech. 4:14.

So then, did you happen to see and understand Zech. 3:8-10?
8 Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the Branch.
9 For behold the "stone" that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the Lord of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day.
10 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.

Oh brother!

None of that proves Jesus and John are the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11—you've simply piled more unrelated assertions onto the same unproven conclusion. You still haven't established the identification from Scripture, so I'm zipping this discussion for good.

Now go take this circus somewhere else. I'm zipping this discussion for good.

 

[gpresdo]

Enoch and Elijah.
It is appointed unto to man...once to die. They have not died.

 

[Earburner]

When

You seem obsessed with calling me a Pharisee every time I ask you to prove your interpretation from Scripture. Calling me a Pharisee is not an answer. It is becoming a convenient way for you to avoid the question for all to see!

And your comparison is backwards. The problem with the Pharisees was not that they asked questions or examined claims. Jesus Himself appealed to the Scriptures as testimony concerning Him (John 5:39, 46). Paul reasoned from the Scriptures (Acts 17:2), and the Bereans were praised for searching the Scriptures daily to test what Paul taught (Acts 17:11).

So testing your teaching against Scripture is not “Pharisaism.” It is biblical discernment. Hello?

You say you have provided Scriptures supporting your belief. No—you have provided Scriptures showing that John was important, Spirit-filled, came in the spirit and power of Elijah, and testified concerning Christ. I have never disputed any of that.

What you have not demonstrated is the conclusion you keep attaching to those verses:

Therefore Jesus Christ and John the Baptist are the two olive trees, two candlesticks, and Two Witnesses of Revelation 11.

That's the missing link.

And saying, “It's not my fault you cannot hear the voice of the Holy Spirit,” only makes your reasoning more circular: “My interpretation is from the Holy Spirit; if you disagree with my interpretation, you cannot hear the Holy Spirit.” That makes your interpretation conveniently impossible to challenge.

No. The Holy Spirit inspired the Word, and teachings are tested by that Word.

So please stop hiding behind the Pharisee accusation. I'm not asking you to prove who Jesus is. I'm asking you to prove your interpretation of Revelation 11.

After all these posts, you still haven't done that. Calling me spiritually deaf does not fill the enormous exegetical hole in your argument.

Grow up. After all these exchanges, you STILL HAVE NOT provided the biblical proof you were repeatedly asked to provide. Your position remains refuted, and repeatedly calling me a Pharisee does nothing to rescue it.

— Zipped. — No more conversation with you here. Go bother someone else with the endless detours while you continue digging yourself deeper into interpretive error. I have no interest in going around the same circle with you again.

When you show respect for what I understand is that which the Holy Spirit is teaching me, then I will have respect for what you believe the Holy Spirit is teaching you! Along the way, if we are humble and mature enough to recant from that which is spiritual error, we should be able to maintain peace in the Lord.

 

[JimKnox]

Why Does Scripture Mention Their “Feet”?​

This detail is important!

Throughout Scripture, feet are associated with being sent forth with the Gospel:



And:



Therefore, when the Spirit causes the Two Witnesses to stand upon their feet, the picture is one of God's people becoming mobilized again. They rise from the silence imposed upon their testimony. They will not prophesy about salvation anymore but JUDGMENT against the abominations around them, warn that judgment is coming, and ultimately separate themselves from the apostate city.

“And Great Fear Fell Upon Them Which Saw Them”​

Their enemies thought they had won.

They thought the troublesome testimony had finally been silenced.

But suddenly the faithful stand again.

Those believers who had been pushed aside, ignored and accused of being unloving, judgmental, heartless, legalistic, hateful, homophobic, sexist, and treated as spiritually “dead” are now openly speaking. This time with warning and separating themselves from the apostate congregation as their enemies behold them.

That does not mean the world watches two corpses physically climb onto their feet. Rather, those who opposed the faithful see their renewed spiritual activity, warning of judgment and departure from apostate church.
And they fear.

Why?

Because their apparent victory over God's witnesses was temporary. The people they thought had been silenced are standing again by the power of God. Their departure also exposes the spiritual condition of the city they are leaving behind.

The witnesses stand, warn, and come out; those remaining behind recognize that something serious is happening. Their fear may manifest itself through anger, hatred, accusations and reviling against the saints.

So Revelation 11 is not primarily predicting two supernatural men performing miracles in Jerusalem.

It is revealing the history and final trial of Christ's witnessing Church:

The Two Witnesses = God's faithful Elect Church.

The 1,260 days = the symbolic New Covenant period of Gospel testimony.

Their power = the Holy Spirit working through God's Word.

Their testimony = the Gospel going into the world to gather God's Elect.

Their death = the silencing of faithful Gospel testimony as the beast overcomes their witness in the apostate external Church.

The world's rejoicing = relief that the Word which exposed their sin and warned of judgment has been silenced.

The 3½ days = a short symbolic period of silence and apparent defeat.

The Spirit of life entering them = God reviving their active testimony.

Standing upon their feet = God's witnesses becoming spiritually mobilized again to speak, warn, and come out of the apostate city.

Their enemies beholding them = those who opposed the truth witnessing this revival and separation with fear.

The Two Witnesses therefore cannot finally be defeated. Satan may be permitted to kill their testimony for a 3-1/2 days/half an hour, but he cannot destroy the eternal life God has placed within His Elect.

The Gospel accomplishes exactly what God sent it to accomplish. The witnesses finish their testimony. The Elect are gathered. The beast is permitted to rule in God's Church for a little season. The faithful stand again by the Spirit of God.

And then the end comes.

Therefore, the traditional Church teaching that the Two Witnesses are two literal men who will someday be physically killed by a literal beast or whatever is a false interpretation of Revelation 11. The passage is symbolic: the Two Witnesses represent the faithful Church, and their “death” represents the silencing of their truthful testimony within the apostate external congregation.

Selah!

Whole bunch of AI baloney for Nada.

 

[Earburner]

Enoch and Elijah.
It is appointed unto to man...once to die. They have not died.

Do you not believe Jesus about every person who is born of flesh?
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Enoch and Elijah were transported by the Spirit of God to new locations, dwelling places ON EARTH.
"It is appointed unto man....once to die" is an unchangeable Judgment from God. Enoch and Elijah DID NOT miss "their appointment".

 

[Earburner]

Oh brother!

None of that proves Jesus and John are the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11—you've simply piled more unrelated assertions onto the same unproven conclusion. You still haven't established the identification from Scripture, so I'm zipping this discussion for good.

Now go take this circus somewhere else. I'm zipping this discussion for good.

So what's next? Are you going to set me up for an appointment with the Sanhedron and the high priest?
You have done nothing here except to get yourself frustrated because I don't play by the rules of church-ianity. But I do play by the rules of 1 Cor. ch. 2.

 

[TribulationSigns]

Whole bunch of AL baloney for Nada.

Calling it “baloney” is not a refutation. I laid out my position from Scripture and explained why I understand Revelation 11 symbolically. If you believe it is wrong, then address the Scriptures and the arguments I presented and demonstrate where the interpretation fails. Denial and Mockery is easy; biblical refutation requires substance.

Do better.

 

[TribulationSigns]

So what's next? Are you going to set me up for an appointment with the Sanhedron and the high priest?
You have done nothing here except to get yourself frustrated because I don't play by the rules of church-ianity. But I do play by the rules of 1 Cor. ch. 2.

Nah, there is a far more serious appointment than anything involving the Sanhedrin: God Himself will judge every false doctrine and every teacher who claims something comes from His Word when it does not.

And no, I'm not frustrated at all. You were given a very simple challenge: show from Scripture where Jesus Christ and John the Baptist are identified as the Two Witnesses of Revelation 11. After all these lengthy replies, you STILL have not done it. I cannot help you with your spiritual blindness when you continually refuse to answer the question. That is a fact!

And please spare me the claim that you “play by the rules of 1 Corinthians 2.” There is no special set of “rules” in 1 Corinthians 2 that gives anyone permission to invent an interpretation and then call it spiritual wisdom. LOL! In fact, have you already forgot that Paul says, “Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual” (1 Corinthians 2:13).

Exactly. Compare Scripture with Scripture.

So simply quote the Scripture that actually identifies the Two Witnesses as Jesus Christ and John the Baptist. You can't, because it isn't there. Hello!

That identification is not coming out of God's Word. It is being read into God's Word through your own imagination and false interpretation.

You can keep calling that “spiritual,” but attaching a spiritual label to an unsupported doctrine does not make it biblical.

As I already said, I'm done with your circus.

 

[Truth7t7]

Calling it “baloney” is not a refutation. I laid out my position from Scripture and explained why I understand Revelation 11 symbolically. If you believe it is wrong, then address the Scriptures and the arguments I presented and demonstrate where the interpretation fails. Denial and Mockery is easy; biblical refutation requires substance.

Do better.

Fact is you haven't provided a biblical explanation that proves Revelation Chapter 11 is to be interpreted 100% symbolically, your writings are opinion and nothing more, and I see your opinion as being wrong, its Baloney, Malarkey and "Laughable"!

The Bible teaches literal prophets that have literal physical bodies that die, these bodies will lay dead in a literal Jerusalem street where Jesus was crucified on this literal earth, a literal world will watch in celebration of their deaths exchanging literal gifts with one another, a literal world will watch these two physical bodies be raised from the dead standing on literal physical feet and they will ascend into heaven in a cloud. Within the same literal hour a great earthquake will take place as the 2nd woe is complete, the 3rd woe will come quickly in the 7th Angel/Trump sounding (The End) Final Judgement Rev 11:18

Jesus Is The Lord

(Future, Literal, Unfulfilled)

Revelation 11:3-18KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[rwb]

John and Jesus were the only Two people who were ever born HAVING the Holy Spirit before their physical birth. I would say that qualifies them 100%

Just because Jesus and John were born with the Spirit does not prove they are the two witnesses.

You are NOT HEARING John 7:39, so instead you can't help but believe the garbage that is being pushed upon Christians through those that the denominational Bible colleges (schools of Pharisaism) produce and generate.
Jesus WARNED us to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees".

John 7:39 (KJV) (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

John tells us the Spirit had not yet been given to those who believe on Him, but he does not say the Holy Spirit was not with believers from the beginning. Adam & Eve were created by the breath of the Spirit breathed into them. But, because they disobeyed God, the Spirit departed from them, and that's why mankind must be born again of the Spirit. If the Spirit were not with believers before Pentecost, how was anyone of Old saved before Pentecost?

John 6:63 (KJV) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

John 14:17 (KJV) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The prophecy of Zech. 4:14 WAS fulfilled by John the Baptist and Jesus.
Rev. 11 is a spiritualized account of allegories and metaphors of that event. It is not to be read and understood literally, as being some kind of a separate event still in the future.

Zechariah's prophecy began to be fulfilled when Christ came to earth a man to build the Kingdom of God through His Church, called to be His witnesses throughout the earth.

Again, because you cannot hear John 7:39,
you have no sense of HOW the the Holy Spirit operated with the OC Saints as opposed to HOW He operates now with the NC Saints.
1. OC., He could only VISIT the Saints at that time and NEVER could stay with them permanently BECAUSE the blood of Jesus Christ was not yet shed to remove sin.
For that, you now can understand why God had their names written in the book of Remembrance Malachi 3:16-18.
Though they died in faith believing of "the Promise that was to come", their sins were NOT YET removed. We can see them in Rev. 6:9-11 "under the altar [of the OC]", finally receiving the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

2. NC., the Holy Spirit now permanently indwells EVERY Born again Saint of the NC.
For professing Christians who simply believe
(being neither hot nor cold), and have never repented towards God, the Holy Spirit still can only visit upon them, UNTIL they personally invite Jesus to come into their life for the forgiveness of sins. Rev. 3:15-22.

Q. By the way, what was the ordinance of God that John the Baptist proclaimed?
A. It was the act of repentance towards God. Without it, there is no forgiveness of sins extended by God, nor can the Gift of the Holy Spirit be given.

Just to clarify, the Bible does not limit anointing of the Holy Spirit to only John and Christ. Just as God anointed Christ, He also anoints with the Spirit whosoever believes on Him. That is the Church on earth as we proclaim the gospel of the Kingdom of God through Christ unto all the earth. They are two candlesticks and two olive trees being sent by God through the power of His Spirit found of Old through Law and Prophets and found of New through the Message (gospel) and Spirit. Without the anointing through the Holy Spirit no man in any age would believe on Him. Because without the anointing of the Spirit we have NOT eyes to see (know) Him.

2 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV) Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;

Hebrews 1:9 (KJV) Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Revelation 3:18 (KJV) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

 

[rwb]

Yes, the immediate 12 disciples received the power of the Holy Spirit that would be used through them for the purpose of beginning the early church. People outside of the 12 did not receive the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit until AFTER Jesus Ascended, which was the day of Pentecost.

Even though the Spirit of God was not sent to dwell permanently within believers until Pentecost, the Spirit came upon and departed from people before Pentecost. David saw the change in King Saul when the Spirit of the LORD departed from him. That's why David prayed the LORD "take not thy Holy Spirit from me."

1 Samuel 16:14 (KJV) But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.

When Moses complained to the LORD of the heavy burden of trying to bear the burden of leading all this people alone, the LORD instructed him to gather seventy elders of Israel whom He would put the same Spirit as Moses' upon them that Moses would not have to bear the burden alone. Do you think the natural spirit in Moses gave him the power he demonstrated that had come from the LORD?

Nu 11:14 I am not able to bear all this people alone, because it is too heavy for me.
Nu 11:15 And if thou deal thus with me, kill me, I pray thee, out of hand, if I have found favour in thy sight; and let me not see my wretchedness.
Nu 11:16 ¶ And the LORD said unto Moses, Gather unto me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the tabernacle of the congregation, that they may stand there with thee.
Nu 11:17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which is upon thee, and will put it upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear it not thyself alone.

Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Isa 30:1 Woe to the rebellious children, saith the LORD, that take counsel, but not of me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin:

 

[rwb]

I already agreed with you.
In my thoughts, I was speaking torwards the whole of mankind, that the Holy Spirit ("rain") is now available to all who repent towards God and believe in Jesus.

The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS been available to whosoever believes on the Messiah, Christ Jesus our Lord. Because none could believe on Him for eternal life without the power of God who was with believers before Pentecost and is now in believers. Those of Old who died in faith looked forward to Him coming to deliver them from the power of death, and from the cross we now look forward to Him coming the second time with eternal salvation.

 

[Truth7t7]

Calling it “baloney” is not a refutation. I laid out my position from Scripture and explained why I understand Revelation 11 symbolically. If you believe it is wrong, then address the Scriptures and the arguments I presented and demonstrate where the interpretation fails. Denial and Mockery is easy; biblical refutation requires substance.

Do better.

A laughing face and tears is your response to my post #75 above "Sad", just like your symbolic allegory in trying to remove the literal interpretation of scripture is "Sad" trying to push a completely false narrative regarding the Literal things that are seen in Rev Chapt 11 with symbolism

One Example: You think your going to take the words "Their Dead Bodies" and symbolize it into something other than literal dead bodies?

Another Example: You think your going to take the described literal watching world celebrating the death of the two witnesses, with this literal world exchanging literal gifts on this literal earth into something else through "Your" symbolic allegory?

Another Example: You think your going to take "The Great City" (Jerusalem) where Jesus was crucified and change it with your symbolic magical wand into something else?

Your Symbolic Interpretation Is Baloney, Malarkey, And Laughable!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[rwb]

A laughing face and tears is your response to my post #75 above "Sad", just like your symbolic allegory in trying to remove the literal interpretation of scripture is "Sad" trying to push a completely false narrative regarding the Literal things that are seen in Rev Chapt 11 with symbolism

One Example: You think your going to take the words "Their Dead Bodies" and symbolize it into something other than a literal dead bodies?

Another Example: You think your going to take the described literal watching world celebrating the death of the two witnesses, with this literal world exchanging literal gifts on this literal earth into something else through "Your" symbolic allegory?

Your Symbolic Interpretation Is Baloney, Malarkey, And Laughable!

Jesus Is The Lord

Dead bodies because the church on earth is the body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27 (KJV) Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.

The church lies dead spiritually and yes there is joyous celebration because witnesses of God will no longer be allowed to torment daily as they bring truth from God to convict them of their sinfulness. The gifts are sacrifices and offerings they make without guilt one to another to the gods they have created in the image of the beast they worship.

The Spirit of God enters into them again, called to life again, they ascend up to heaven in a cloud. The third and final woe upon the earth comes quickly as fire from God out of heaven comes down to burn up the earth and all who are still alive.