“… for there is no activity or planning or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.”
(Ecclesiastes 9:10, NASB)
(Ecclesiastes 9:10, NASB)
Who’s words are these?
- Thread starter Matthias
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
The “Lord” your “god” is Jesus, yet he is the one who served the one he called “the only true God”, (Acts 4:27) whom he said we must “know” in order to receive everlasting life. (John 17:3) AND we must also “know” the one he “sent”….
Hundreds of years after his death, “the church” had officially invented a completely different god to the one Jesus and his Jewish apostles served. (Deut 6:4)
To Mary Magdalene Jesus said after his resurrection….
“Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to my Father. But go to my brethren and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ” (New Catholic Bible)
At Rev 3:12…..
”Anyone who is victorious I will make into a pillar in the temple of my God, and never again will he depart from it. I will inscribe on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God, as well as my own new name.” (NCB)
Jesus again calls the Father “my God”…four times in that one verse, and he had been in heaven for over 60 years when John received his Revelation.
Does God have a god that he worships?
These are Jesus’ own words…..
Perhaps a revisit to the Ten Commandments is in order…? In the original Hebrew, this is Yahweh/Jehovah himself speaking….
“You shall not have other gods instead of me. You shall not make idols or any image of things that are in the heavens above or that are upon the earth or that are in the waters under the earth. You shall not bow before them nor shall you serve them. I, the Lord, [Yᵊhōvâ] am your God, a jealous God, who punishes the sins of fathers upon their sons until the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but I will show my favor for a thousand generations of those who love me and observe my commandments.” (NCB)
You cannot claim to love a God whom you disobey.
It is clear to me that those in Christendom do not really “know” either Yahweh or his son.….”the church” has a lot to answer for….but you don’t have to answer to me….nor can you ever offer the excuse that nobody told you the very inconvenient truth.
Last edited:
There's only God and it's written that we are to live and die for Him, not any other lord. (Rom. 14:8)
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
That is correct…there is only “one God” (Deut 6:4)…the same God whom Jesus himself worshipped, as you were sown from the Catholic Bible.
Address the points in the post….refute them…..or is it an inconvenient truth?
The Scriptures prove you wrong….but you cannot admit it.
We agree that there's one God then. And, do you agree that we aren't to live and die for any lord other than the Lord God?
I would, but, unfortunately, it's my understanding that the Holy Trinity can't be publicly discussed at this time.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
Yet Jesus Himself said, "I and My Father are one."
Isaiah prophesied concerning Jesus:
“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isa 9:6 NKJV)
Thomas, on being brought face-to-face with the risen Saviour, said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
This thread isn’t about the Trinity. This thread is about Jesus of Nazareth speaking God’s word - his God’s promise and prophesy - concerning him resurrecting Jesus from the dead.
This thread addresses the incident from the perspective of Jewish monotheism.
This thread addresses the incident from the perspective of Jewish monotheism.
David Lamb
Well-Known Member
But putting "the Trinity" in one corner and "Jewish Monotheism" in another is a false dichotomy. Believing in the Trinity is not believing in three Gods. Believers in the Trinity are also Monotheists. They too believe in one God. They believe that the one God exists in three "Persons", the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
I’ll start a thread about it for us (and others).
I’ve already addressed this and expressed my agreement with it. That doesn’t mean this thread is about it.
P.S.
The new thread is titled “The corner” and it is located in the Christian Apologetics Forum. (The composition of the OP, as you will see, was simple; my choice of which forum to place it in was limited and complex.)
Last edited:
Yes, one must decide if idolizing the man Jesus over his God's words brings one personal salvation or not. How many are brave enough to really know the difference?
Hiddenthings
Well-Known Member
If you go over to Matthew 26:61 they use this term of contempt “This fellow” . They couldn't even bring themselves to name the one who bore “the only name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12).
They recalled his words from three years earlier (“Destroy this temple”),but twisted them. What Jesus actually said was, “Destroy this temple” in other words, You!
Their disobedience led to the destruction of the temple (hieron – the physical structure).
His obedience resulted in the raising of the temple (naos – referring to his body).
Jesus reminded them at the last cleansing!
Luke 19:41–46
41 And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it,
42 saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes.
43 For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side
44 and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, because you did not know the time of your visitation.”
45 And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who sold,
46 saying to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a den of robbers.”
All these warnings as you rightly state were given by God in His foreknowledge.
Moonwood
Member
It’s true that the Father raised Jesus, but Scripture also teaches that the Son and the Holy Spirit were active in the resurrection.
- "Destroy this temple, and in three days I (the Son) will raise it up..." (John 2:19)
- "the Father, Who raised Him from the dead..." (Galatians 1:1)
- "But if the [Holy] Spirit of Him Who raised up Jesus from the dead..." (Romans 8:11)
Guidance from the Spirit of God is needed to truly understand much of Scripture. Many are unable to do so because this presence is missing within them, and as a result they interpret Scripture through unnecessary and confusing human-made terms and doctrines instead.
The Son of God, by faithfully carrying out his Father’s will all the way to the Cross and death, effectively secured his own resurrection into glory, and he spoke of this using the same kind of language as your first point.
The second and third points of Paul are essentially identical, expressed in two different ways as parallel statements describing who God is. It is the Father, and specifically his Spirit, who raised his Son into a glorious state of eternal life.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
- Jul 13, 2021
- 10,601
- 13,255
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
“Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’” John 2:19
If I understand the OP correctly, the argument is that here Jesus is acting as a prophet (albeit without the approved formula, "Thus saith the LORD") and speaking on behalf of YHWH.
...
At one of our Bible studies, we were going over John's little vignette of the Woman at the Well (that's in John 4, for those of you keeping score at home). The woman says to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet." (verse 19.) One of our members was a recent convert from Islam in which Isa (Jesus) is considered to be the penultimate prophet - but nothing more. Conversion to Christianity meant accepting that Jesus is the Son of God, something much more than "just a prophet" and the meaning of which we are still struggling today. He actually found referring to Jesus once again as a prophet (though He unquestionably did act in that function) to be disturbing to his new faith.
If I understand the OP correctly, the argument is that here Jesus is acting as a prophet (albeit without the approved formula, "Thus saith the LORD") and speaking on behalf of YHWH.
...
At one of our Bible studies, we were going over John's little vignette of the Woman at the Well (that's in John 4, for those of you keeping score at home). The woman says to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet." (verse 19.) One of our members was a recent convert from Islam in which Isa (Jesus) is considered to be the penultimate prophet - but nothing more. Conversion to Christianity meant accepting that Jesus is the Son of God, something much more than "just a prophet" and the meaning of which we are still struggling today. He actually found referring to Jesus once again as a prophet (though He unquestionably did act in that function) to be disturbing to his new faith.
Last edited:
Welcome to the forum.
Thank you for presenting the trinitarian perspective.
Jesus was dead, and the dead are inactive. The resurrection, in my view, is a Jewish monotheism act, the work of the Father by his operational presence and power.
Moonwood
Member
When Christians say “the Son raised Himself,” we’re not saying Jesus’ human body acted while dead. We’re saying the divine Son — who took on a human nature — continued to act. His humanity was dead; His divinity was not.
This distinction is essential in historic Christian theology and avoids the misunderstanding that Jesus’ corpse somehow performed actions.
John 2:19 and John 10:17-18 show Jesus claiming an ongoing authority over His own life and death. Those statements only make sense if His divine nature remained active.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God, and the resurrection is therefore the act of the one triune God rather than the work of the Father alone. The New Testament freely attributes the resurrection to each divine person — the Father who raised Jesus (Galatians 1:1), the Son who declares He will raise Himself (John 2:19; John 10:17-18), and the Spirit who gives life (Romans 8:11). This isn’t three separate actions but one divine act expressed through the three persons who share the same divine nature. Jesus’ human body was truly dead, but the divine Son was not; His humanity experienced death, yet His divinity remained fully alive and active, which is why He speaks of taking up His life again. This understanding doesn’t abandon Jewish monotheism but reflects how the earliest Jewish believers described God’s self‑revelation in Christ and the Spirit.
Moonwood
Member
Thanks for the clarification. Since you already understand the Trinitarian framework, my only point was that the New Testament itself distributes the resurrection across Father, Son, and Spirit. For Christians, that isn’t three separate causes but one divine act of the one God who is triune. So while Jesus’ human nature truly experienced death, the divine Son remained fully alive, and Scripture speaks of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit together in the single work of raising Him. That’s the sense in which the resurrection is both monotheistic and Trinitarian at the same time.
Similar threads
