Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[Lizbeth]

It is interesting that you should say, "takes it up," because that is how I've always described it. I literally felt a heaviness lift up out of me, and all desire for the serious sin I was trapped in was gone. In its place was a bursting desire to surround myself with things of the Lord. TV Christian programs, Christian radio, and being at church whenever the doors were open. I couldn't get enough of God. And of course reading the Bible. That was in 1977 in California.

So, I'm sorry it is not just imputed righteousness covering over the sins I commit. It is not just a position in heavenly places. It is real. I could no longer commit willful lawless sin. I just didn't want to anymore. Jesus makes it so easy. I just obeyed my conscience. Also, I was given supernatural gifts of the Spirit, and new ones over the years, and miracles.

Sinless is not perfection. It is sinless of sins of the flesh as in Galatians 5:19-21 and the commandments that Jesus as the Author of our faith performs in a moment in time. Sinless is righteous. But there is a higher level of purity that takes a long time to achieve with the process of glorification. ("Sanctification" is not the right word for it) This is Jesus as the Finisher of our faith. He matures all the fruit of the Spirit and makes us perfect to where we "never stumble." 2 Peter 1:10 (read 5-11). That higher level is holy.

Revelation 22:11 he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

Praise God for what he did in your life, sister.....His strength made perfect in weakness. And I agree with holiness (in principle at least - different people seem to have different takes and details on it, and I don't feel I understand it entirely yet).

But how do we account for the fact that some believers fall into adultery or other sin after receiving Christ? The bible says to take heed who thinks he stands lest he fall. Different people may be gifted different graces and deliverances in the beginning, and still have to fight and battle their flesh concerning other sins afterward. And unwanted temptations can certainly arise even though they are not being sought for....the devil is always seeking our destruction. Our sins have been borne away by Jesus on the cross, they have been forgiven and we have been cleansed of them, but in spite of that it doesn't mean believers automatically will never have to battle and contend with any of them any more, unless I'm misunderstanding something with what you are saying.

Jesus said we have had the bath and are every whit clean......but it is a given that we still need to have our feet washed along the way.....which I believe speaks to our walk. James mentioned that "we offend in many ways all". Paul said in 1 Cor 4 to judge nothing before the time, and He who judges him is the Lord, I think someone posted that already if memory serves.......that, along with what he wrote in Phil 3 about not considering that he had attained and that we should be of that same mind, would seem to actively discourage claims of sinless perfection, or of all our sins being taken away as necessarily being in a literal sense.

1Co 4:4-5

For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord.

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

 

[Lizbeth]

Just want to add that righteousness is imputed to us by default as it were.......because our sins are not being imputed to us, ie, they have been forgiven and forgotten because of our faith in Christ. And that we are seated in heavenly places is a very real thing....it is via our new man, through the Spirit.

 

[Episkopos]

Just want to add that righteousness is imputed to us by default as it were.

God is not a default position. He has to be included not ignored. Only God can declare someone as righteous. Many have very foolishly declared themselves as righteous even claiming to be as righteous as God.

......because our sins are not being imputed to us,

Where do you get that? That is a religious scam. Sin will always be imputed to those who sin. What you are confusing here is the TYPE of sin that a man is blessed to not have imputed to him...namely iniquity. We are to depart from iniquity....or else it will be imputed to us.

ie, they have been forgiven and forgotten because of our faith in Christ.

The sins that are past, yes.

And that we are seated in heavenly places is a very real thing....it is via our new man, through the Spirit.

False. It is a very real thing therefore almost no one knows that experience. People would rather pretend, name and claim....anything but go to God to be known of Him.

 

[Lizbeth]

God is not a default position. He has to be included not ignored. Only God can declare someone as righteous. Many have very foolishly declared themselves as righteous even claiming to be as righteous as God.


Where do you get that? That is a religious scam. Sin will always be imputed to those who sin. What you are confusing here is the TYPE of sin that a man is blessed to not have imputed to him...namely iniquity. We are to depart from iniquity....or else it will be imputed to us.


The sins that are past, yes.

False. It is a very real thing therefore almost no one knows that experience. People would rather pretend, name and claim....anything but go to God to be known of Him.

Why don't you first respond to my post #178 on page 9 of this thread disputing your assertion that a belief in imputed righteousness etc is the strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thess. 2. Are you going to continue asserting that those precious foundations of the gospel are the strong delusion?

 

[Episkopos]

Why don't you first respond to my post #178 on page 9 of this thread disputing your assertion that a belief in imputed righteousness etc is the strong delusion spoken of in 2 Thess. 2. Are you going to continue asserting that those precious foundations of the gospel are the strong delusion?

The great delusion is making up a false gospel that God has no part of. It is literally SELF-generated.

Some of the aspects of the great delusion are ...

1. Positional theology: whereby a person reads about a spiritual experience in truth in the bible and claims that vicariously as an imagined happening.

2. Self-imputation...not just of a human righteousness the way God does it...but actually imputing to oneself the very righteousness of God.

3. That Jesus did 100% of the work in the New Covenant...no need to obey the gospel.

Someone who comes OUT from such tomfoolery has saved their own soul from rejection.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

But how do we account for the fact that some believers fall into adultery or other sin after receiving Christ?

I went to church for 30 years BEFORE that evening in 1977 happened. It is the difference between knowing about Jesus, and actually following Him. And as I found out, following him is more than going to church once a week. It is the difference between you turning away from a sin you know is wrong, only to eventually fail, and admitting you are weak and love your sin, and turning the whole matter over to Jesus to take away the desire from your nature. Also, what I do is stay away from compromising situations as 1 John 5:18 tells us that is called "keeping" ourselves. Change your friends. If you're a stripper, quit your job. Things that can trip you up.

Do you know there are whole denominations that teach a lie about sin? They do not teach "freedom from sin." They teach "freedom from condemnation and penalty" for your sins you can't stop doing. If you are in one of those churches - RUN! That is not the TRUTH that can set you free. John 8:32, 34-36. Only Jesus can make you free from sin INDEED. Once actually born again of the Spirit, Paul says to "reckon" yourself free from sin, lest you fall back into it.

As for the rest of your post, no Protestant church teaches the truth about how God sees sin. There are two types, not the Reformation's "sin is sin." The Catholics still call them mortal sins and venial sins. Mortal sins are sins unto death. Venial sins are actions from immature fruit and are committed unintentionally from the standpoint it is a minor sin. This second type is the sins Jesus cleanses after we are walking in the light, 1 John 1:7. The first type is what Jesus originally cleanses from our nature and is the type of sin the whole chapter of 1 John 3 is about. Those are the "past sins" Peter speaks of in 2 Peter 1:9. And those mortal sin are never "unintentional." There is another lie in Protestant churches that instead of just those past mortal sins that are cleansed from our nature, there is another teaching of demons about "past, present and future sins." Does any of this sound familiar?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Remember what Paul said....that which i do...i wish not...that which i wish..... i do not.
Has a great reflection of the challenge upon us.

Romans 7 refers to three different times in history about God's laws. As verse one shows, this chapter is to those who know about the law, like Jews.

Verse 9 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

The red is like the time of Adam and Eve, Noah and Abraham. The blue is when Moses received the law on Mt. Sinai. Notice Paul uses the Semitic writing style of the East and uses present personal pronouns, even though Paul was not alive thousands of years ago. Don't let personal pronouns trip you up to the meaning just because you have a Western mindset. John uses them to in 1 John 1. (1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are before confession and cleansing of sins).

What you quoted is in the midst of Romans 7:14-25 which is about the Jews in the wilderness and then in bondage all before Christ. Even verse 24 says how much those persons needed Christ to free him from that uncleansed sin nature. Paul ends the chapter with the conclusion of one under the Law who Christ has not yet cleansed them of their "flesh" which means sin nature. Keep reading. Romans 8:1-9

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

 

[Lizbeth]

The great delusion is making up a false gospel that God has no part of. It is literally SELF-generated.

Some of the aspects of the great delusion are ...

1. Positional theology: whereby a person reads about a spiritual experience in truth in the bible and claims that vicariously as an imagined happening.

2. Self-imputation...not just of a human righteousness the way God does it...but actually imputing to oneself the very righteousness of God.

3. That Jesus did 100% of the work in the New Covenant...no need to obey the gospel.

Someone who comes OUT from such tomfoolery has saved their own soul from rejection.

I already know what you believe the strong delusion is. I am asking you to square your idea of the strong delusion with the context of where it is spoken of in 2 Thess 2....square it with the son of perdition and return of Christ to judge him.

 

[Lizbeth]

I went to church for 30 years BEFORE that evening in 1977 happened. It is the difference between knowing about Jesus, and actually following Him. And as I found out, following him is more than going to church once a week. It is the difference between you turning away from a sin you know is wrong, only to eventually fail, and admitting you are weak and love your sin, and turning the whole matter over to Jesus to take away the desire from your nature. Also, what I do is stay away from compromising situations as 1 John 5:18 tells us that is called "keeping" ourselves. Change your friends. If you're a stripper, quit your job. Things that can trip you up.

Amen.

Do you know there are whole denominations that teach a lie about sin? They do not teach "freedom from sin." They teach "freedom from condemnation and penalty" for your sins you can't stop doing. If you are in one of those churches - RUN! That is not the TRUTH that can set you free. John 8:32, 34-36. Only Jesus can make you free from sin INDEED. Once actually born again of the Spirit, Paul says to "reckon" yourself free from sin, lest you fall back into it.

Yes, the pendulum swung too far in the opposite direction....it started out as a kind of overreaction to religious legalism I think and grew worse from there. I don't belong to the greasy grace camp, and nor do I belong in a grace-less camp. I believe the truth lies somewhere in between, so to speak.

As for the rest of your post, no Protestant church teaches the truth about how God sees sin. There are two types, not the Reformation's "sin is sin." The Catholics still call them mortal sins and venial sins. Mortal sins are sins unto death. Venial sins are actions from immature fruit and are committed unintentionally from the standpoint it is a minor sin. This second type is the sins Jesus cleanses after we are walking in the light, 1 John 1:7. The first type is what Jesus originally cleanses from our nature and is the type of sin the whole chapter of 1 John 3 is about. Those are the "past sins" Peter speaks of in 2 Peter 1:9. And those mortal sin are never "unintentional." There is another lie in Protestant churches that instead of just those past mortal sins that are cleansed from our nature, there is another teaching of demons about "past, present and future sins." Does any of this sound familiar?

Honestly I don't know what the Reformers taught about sin, and I can't remember what Catholicism lists as mortals or venial sins. But the bible mentions wilful sins....that if a believer keeps on sinning wilfully there is no more sacrifice for such sins....because God is not mocked - He expects sincerity at the very least from us. For other sins we have an Advocate, who ever lives to make intercession for us. But I assume any sin that we are aware of after coming to faith needs to be repented of and forgiveness sought....that goes along with sincerity. Though I believe the Lord overlooks minor inadvertent things that people aren't aware of. Otherwise nobody would be saved because we all offend in many ways, on the way to being perfected, and I suspect that nobody is really aware of all their personal foibles and shortcomings.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes, the pendulum swung too far in the opposite direction....it started out as a kind of overreaction to religious legalism I think and grew worse from there. I don't belong to the greasy grace camp, and nor do I belong in a grace-less camp. I believe the truth lies somewhere in between, so to speak.

I came to the conclusion that there is one Author of Scripture, God, so there is one and only one correct interpretation for every verse and doctrine. That is my goal in believing. I keep reading the New Testament over and over. There are some other things that God has shown me. They are "key" words that when you see them you know what God is referring to, and it is not what the Church has been teaching. But you won't notice them if you don't read the Word many times over.

onestly I don't know what the Reformers taught about sin, and I can't remember what Catholicism lists as mortals or venial sins. But the bible mentions wilful sins....that if a believer keeps on sinning wilfully there is no more sacrifice for such sins....because God is not mocked - He expects sincerity at the very least from us. For other sins we have an Advocate, who ever lives to make intercession for us. But I assume any sin that we are aware of after coming to faith needs to be repented of and forgiveness sought....that goes along with sincerity. Though I believe the Lord overlooks minor inadvertent things that people aren't aware of. Otherwise nobody would be saved because we all offend in many ways, on the way to being perfected, and I suspect that nobody is really aware of all their personal foibles and shortcomings.

Yes, willful vs. unintentional or unknowing sins is what the Old Testament also teaches as those two types of sin. Mortal sins are against the commandments of God. You can't commit them unintentionally. You will always know if you commit them. They are sins unto death.

1 John 1:7 is after being cleansed of all unrighteousness of sins unto death. The only sins that are left would be unintentional sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17.

When you've been born again of the Spirit and have no desire to commit any of the sins unto death I just told you about, then you can really just keep abiding in Jesus (read the Word daily and pray and praise and thank Him) then just follow your conscience. If your conscience tells you to STOP! Then don't do whatever the Spirit warned you not to do. Simple. "My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

 

[Lizbeth]

I came to the conclusion that there is one Author of Scripture, God, so there is one and only one correct interpretation for every verse and doctrine. That is my goal in believing. I keep reading the New Testament over and over. There are some other things that God has shown me. They are "key" words that when you see them you know what God is referring to, and it is not what the Church has been teaching. But you won't notice them if you don't read the Word many times over.

I was just pointing out that there are two ditches on either side of the right road....leaven of the Pharisees as well leaven of licentious Herod.

I don't know if you agree, but God's word is a spiritual word and needs to be understood in spirit..... "comparing spiritual with spiritual". I believe it is not static per se, but there is often depth to it in what the Lord is conveying. We need the Holy Spirit to give us understanding ultimately. And I'm guessing there is no end to plumbing the depths of it.

Yes, willful vs. unintentional or unknowing sins is what the Old Testament also teaches as those two types of sin. Mortal sins are against the commandments of God. You can't commit them unintentionally. You will always know if you commit them. They are sins unto death.

1 John 1:7 is after being cleansed of all unrighteousness of sins unto death. The only sins that are left would be unintentional sins not unto death. 1 John 5:16-17.

When you've been born again of the Spirit and have no desire to commit any of the sins unto death I just told you about, then you can really just keep abiding in Jesus (read the Word daily and pray and praise and thank Him) then just follow your conscience. If your conscience tells you to STOP! Then don't do whatever the Spirit warned you not to do. Simple. "My yoke is easy and My burden is light."

For the sake of discussion, I wonder if it is the intentionality of the sin that is what would make it "mortal". I think it is possible that a believer can be seduced to commit adultery or fornication in a weak and unguarded moment, which they then regret....God can forgive that if the person is sincerely sorry. But not if they were to keep on doing it without a care, that would be intentional and He is not mocked. And I think that a believer can even commit violence or kill if circumstances conspire in such a way as to cause them to be overcome with anger and they then are smitten with sorrow for doing it and ask God for forgiveness. I wouldn't consider circumstances like that to be intentional even though they are major sins and the person knows it. The devil does conspire against God's people and it is one reason we need to be sober and alert. I think of intentional as being wilful, when the person is in control of themself but knowingly sins anyway. If they don't repent and keep on sinning they are on the path of perdition and not salvation...fallen away.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I was just pointing out that there are two ditches on either side of the right road....leaven of the Pharisees as well leaven of licentious Herod.

I don't know if you agree, but God's word is a spiritual word and needs to be understood in spirit..... "comparing spiritual with spiritual". I believe it is not static per se, but there is often depth to it in what the Lord is conveying. We need the Holy Spirit to give us understanding ultimately. And I'm guessing there is no end to plumbing the depths of it.

Yes, I keep learning new things, and every time He reveals something new, I'm on a high that lasts a month, and then I'm hungry for the next golden nugget.

For the sake of discussion, I wonder if it is the intentionality of the sin that is what would make it "mortal". I think it is possible that a believer can be seduced to commit adultery or fornication in a weak and unguarded moment, which they then regret....God can forgive that if the person is sincerely sorry. But not if they were to keep on doing it without a care, that would be intentional and He is not mocked. And I think that a believer can even commit violence or kill if circumstances conspire in such a way as to cause them to be overcome with anger and they then are smitten with sorrow for doing it and ask God for forgiveness. I wouldn't consider circumstances like that to be intentional even though they are major sins and the person knows it. The devil does conspire against God's people and it is one reason we need to be sober and alert. I think of intentional as being wilful, when the person is in control of themself but knowingly sins anyway. If they don't repent and keep on sinning they are on the path of perdition and not salvation...fallen away.

I understand what you're saying, and from my own experience I did things that were wrong that I was taught weren't. And I remember even in the midst of doing them, God was still speaking to me, and even doing miracles. Our fellowship wasn't broken. But as the Author and Finisher of my faith, He brought me out of those unintentional sins. Look at Eve. She had never been lied to before and didn't even know that was possible, so she believed the devil. It may have been she wanted to be more like God, as we want to be more like Jesus. That may be a stretch, so you can take it or leave it, but that is what I believe happened. It was unintentional. Otherwise she would have seen her nakedness. That didn't happen until Adam sinned willfully.

Now God has me on a new level of obedience. That happens to be the last line of a long prophecy I received in 2001 that I didn't understand how it could come true; it was so wonderful. But as soon as I got back home to Arizona the first line came to pass. And each line after that came to pass in order. Even that my eyes would be opened by the Spirit of the Lord. Just a few years ago at our class before church I heard one of the ladies talking about there being three seers in our fellowship. I asked her what she was talking about. She said they could see a white aura around our pastor when he was teaching his sermon. So on my way into the sanctuary I prayed that if, and only if, this gift was from Him I wanted it too. And I got it immediately. It was a couple years later that I noticed on that prophecy I had typed out that it fulfilled a line in that prophecy close to the end. I've learned what it is that we are seeing. It is the anointing. I've visited other churches, and found the speaker was covered in a blue anointing. It was breathtaking. And I was reading in a Christian book that this can been seen in either white or blue. I had never heard of this before, except in the occult world of psychic mediums seeing auras. I refuse to call it that, and then I learned it was the anointing. Some are large, and some preachers have none at all.

BTW, Satan cannot create, he can only counterfeit a gift that only God can create. So this is the real thing that Satan copies.

 

[Lizbeth]

Yes, I keep learning new things, and every time He reveals something new, I'm on a high that lasts a month, and then I'm hungry for the next golden nugget.


I understand what you're saying, and from my own experience I did things that were wrong that I was taught weren't. And I remember even in the midst of doing them, God was still speaking to me, and even doing miracles. Our fellowship wasn't broken. But as the Author and Finisher of my faith, He brought me out of those unintentional sins. Look at Eve. She had never been lied to before and didn't even know that was possible, so she believed the devil. It may have been she wanted to be more like God, as we want to be more like Jesus. That may be a stretch, so you can take it or leave it, but that is what I believe happened. It was unintentional. Otherwise she would have seen her nakedness. That didn't happen until Adam sinned willfully.

Now God has me on a new level of obedience. That happens to be the last line of a long prophecy I received in 2001 that I didn't understand how it could come true; it was so wonderful. But as soon as I got back home to Arizona the first line came to pass. And each line after that came to pass in order. Even that my eyes would be opened by the Spirit of the Lord. Just a few years ago at our class before church I heard one of the ladies talking about there being three seers in our fellowship. I asked her what she was talking about. She said they could see a white aura around our pastor when he was teaching his sermon. So on my way into the sanctuary I prayed that if, and only if, this gift was from Him I wanted it too. And I got it immediately. It was a couple years later that I noticed on that prophecy I had typed out that it fulfilled a line in that prophecy close to the end. I've learned what it is that we are seeing. It is the anointing. I've visited other churches, and found the speaker was covered in a blue anointing. It was breathtaking. And I was reading in a Christian book that this can been seen in either white or blue. I had never heard of this before, except in the occult world of psychic mediums seeing auras. I refuse to call it that, and then I learned it was the anointing. Some are large, and some preachers have none at all.

BTW, Satan cannot create, he can only counterfeit a gift that only God can create. So this is the real thing that Satan copies.

Motives matter. Our motives often need to be purified.....I think pride was/is at the root of the fall, like Lucifer. But yes, deceived by the serpent for sure, and it is the mercy and grace of God that we can learn from our mistakes. I believe Eve was under Adam's covering/protection to some extent (he having spiritual authority over her), until he fell.

 

[Lizbeth]

Now God has me on a new level of obedience. That happens to be the last line of a long prophecy I received in 2001 that I didn't understand how it could come true; it was so wonderful. But as soon as I got back home to Arizona the first line came to pass. And each line after that came to pass in order. Even that my eyes would be opened by the Spirit of the Lord. Just a few years ago at our class before church I heard one of the ladies talking about there being three seers in our fellowship. I asked her what she was talking about. She said they could see a white aura around our pastor when he was teaching his sermon. So on my way into the sanctuary I prayed that if, and only if, this gift was from Him I wanted it too. And I got it immediately. It was a couple years later that I noticed on that prophecy I had typed out that it fulfilled a line in that prophecy close to the end. I've learned what it is that we are seeing. It is the anointing. I've visited other churches, and found the speaker was covered in a blue anointing. It was breathtaking. And I was reading in a Christian book that this can been seen in either white or blue. I had never heard of this before, except in the occult world of psychic mediums seeing auras. I refuse to call it that, and then I learned it was the anointing. Some are large, and some preachers have none at all.

BTW, Satan cannot create, he can only counterfeit a gift that only God can create. So this is the real thing that Satan copies.

Sister, I don't know about your Christian life and walk, but I found out that a seer in scripture is simply a prophet. It appears that "seer" is a term that was used before the term "prophet" came into useage. So I would be careful of that aura thing. I do agree in general that the devil counterfeits things of God, but just don't think seeing auras is of God to start with. There are gifts of prophets and prophecy, but we don't see auras in the word of God, nor a specific gift of seeing them. Also, since spiritual gifts are for the building up of the body, seeing auras doesn't seem to fulfill any purpose in that regard. I hope you will ask the Lord and look into that.

1Sa 9:9
(Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is a very narcissistic response. I am simply conveying what the power of the gospel is...that Paul preached. If that doesn't line up with your lack of experience, that doesn't make it wrong.

You have to remove yourself from being the center of everything. Repentance needs to come from you. You need to turn from your religious ways.

It's far better to fear the Lord and seek Him for yourself. Seek Him while He may be found.

Wrong again! You are very presumptious.

As I am not the center of everything- I willt ake your comment as coming from deep ignorance.

I seek my Lord and Savior daily. I find HIm daily!

This is not a good testimony. God gives us a NEW nature in Christ. And that new nature comes to the fore by the power of the cross that crucifies the old sin nature.

If you haven't yet experienced that, I'm not the one sinning by telling you that.

I know this well! but you reject the fact that we still have to contend with the old man.

But let me ask you directly and I hope you will answer directly.
Do you believe you are living without sin 24/7?

All have sinned. Find a verse that says.....ALL WILL sin. You will see that the opposite is true. You need to stop cherry picking verses that you can easily take out of context....unless you don't care about the truth.

Whoever sins has not seen Him or known Him.

He who is born again does not sin.

Try finding some balance in your understanding. I have done extensive studies....you should try it...with HONESTY....not in a self-seeking way.

I will match my studies with yours any day!

So do you believe you have been living a sinless life 24/7 for how long?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Sister, I don't know about your Christian life and walk, but I found out that a seer in scripture is simply a prophet. It appears that "seer" is a term that was used before the term "prophet" came into useage. So I would be careful of that aura thing. I do agree in general that the devil counterfeits things of God, but just don't think seeing auras is of God to start with. There are gifts of prophets and prophecy, but we don't see auras in the word of God, nor a specific gift of seeing them. Also, since spiritual gifts are for the building up of the body, seeing auras doesn't seem to fulfill any purpose in that regard. I hope you will ask the Lord and look into that.

1Sa 9:9
(Beforetime in Israel, when a man went to enquire of God, thus he spake, Come, and let us go to the seer: for he that is now called a Prophet was beforetime called a Seer.)

I thought the same thing, which is why I prayed that I wanted the gift ONLY if it was from God, and just as my prayers are answered immediately, so was this. My prayers have all been answered since 1977 because I only pray what God first tells me to pray. Psychics see colors around anyone. That is the counterfeit. But Satan can't counterfeit something if there wasn't the real in existence from God. It is just rare. And since this was given to me, I've read a Christian book and it mentions this and the colors of "white or blue." Those are the two colors I see. Mine is only to judge anointing of a sermon. Besides, it was prophesied that "her eyes be opened by the Spirit of God." My ears have been opened since I was born again. Haven't you read 1 Corinthians 2:9-16. The first part is

9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Be careful on how you judge me, as it appears I may not be rightly judged by you.

 

[Episkopos]

Wrong again! You are very presumptious.

As I am not the center of everything- I willt ake your comment as coming from deep ignorance.

I seek my Lord and Savior daily. I find HIm daily!

How very presumptuous of you. That's like saying I drink plenty, I take a drop of water daily. Do you realize how much flesh is left over that needs to be overcome? Your idea of scale is way off.

God says...you have healed the hurt of My people slightly. All religious people exaggerate their true condition. I speak in UNDERstatements because the truth is too hard to bear for many here. I'm speaking to people who love to make OVERstatements.

I know this well! but you reject the fact that we still have to contend with the old man.

That's not true. You just stated that you find God everyday. Do you know what an overstatement is? If you truly found God you wouldn't have to seek Him every day. You would already be where He is.

But let me ask you directly and I hope you will answer directly.
Do you believe you are living without sin 24/7?

Not now. But I have for 2 lengths of time. At first for only a few days...I couldn't handle being in Christ's perfection for what seemed like a permanent condition. The 2nd time was 18 years later and I lasted for 2.5 years. That time I blew it by not understanding righteousness. So I have been learning righteousness ever since...that was 25 years ago.

I will match my studies with yours any day!

No you won't. I study for at least 3 hours a day and I read Hebrew.

So do you believe you have been living a sinless life 24/7 for how long?

I have been collecting the dew of the morning and being cleansed of sin in my conscience. But I know the difference between a daily cleansing and being filled with the Spirit.

I can't explain this to people very well, but I don't feel like an individual anymore. I'm part of the body of Christ (understatement) so that in my learning of righteousness I can come alongside other brethren and help them to see the truth....in the subtle and nuanced way the bible shows the divine balance for both truth AND mercy.

Peace frère Nolette. <><

 

[Lizbeth]

I thought the same thing, which is why I prayed that I wanted the gift ONLY if it was from God, and just as my prayers are answered immediately, so was this. My prayers have all been answered since 1977 because I only pray what God first tells me to pray. Psychics see colors around anyone. That is the counterfeit. But Satan can't counterfeit something if there wasn't the real in existence from God. It is just rare. And since this was given to me, I've read a Christian book and it mentions this and the colors of "white or blue." Those are the two colors I see. Mine is only to judge anointing of a sermon. Besides, it was prophesied that "her eyes be opened by the Spirit of God." My ears have been opened since I was born again. Haven't you read 1 Corinthians 2:9-16. The first part is

9 But as it is written:

“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Be careful on how you judge me, as it appears I may not be rightly judged by you.

I was trying to point out that the gift of seer is the gift of prophet, not of seeing auras that the woman at your church spoke of....so that does not appear to be based in truth....and what that might mean. I was not not judging you, but I do sometimes wonder at what people consider to be judgmental these days.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I was trying to point out that the gift of seer is the gift of prophet, not of seeing auras that the woman at your church spoke of....so that does not appear to be based in truth....and what that might mean. I was not not judging you, but I do sometimes wonder at what people consider to be judgmental these days.

There are only two words of what this is. Seer and Prophet. God spoke to me in 2000 on my trip from Arizona back to California and only said He was giving me the Office of Teacher. He didn't say He was also making me a Prophet, so I won't use that word. I've had no problem with pastors understanding the term seer. Although, I do operate in the gift of prophecy sometimes, but not enough to call myself a Prophet. I only call myself what God told me, nothing more. It limits it to seeing anointings in either white light or rich royal blue, not prophecies, except once. Instead of an anointing, what came out of the pastors head was dark billowing clouds as a backdrop to a tornado. I knew it was a dark secret sin that was tearing him up. And that's what I told him. I haven't been back to see if he's dealt with it with God.

 

[Grailhunter]

There are only two words of what this is. Seer and Prophet. God spoke to me in 2000 on my trip from Arizona back to California and only said He was giving me the Office of Teacher. He didn't say He was also making me a Prophet, so I won't use that word. I've had no problem with pastors understanding the term seer. Although, I do operate in the gift of prophecy sometimes, but not enough to call myself a Prophet. I only call myself what God told me, nothing more. It limits it to seeing anointings in either white light or rich royal blue, not prophecies, except once. Instead of an anointing, what came out of the pastors head was dark billowing clouds as a backdrop to a tornado. I knew it was a dark secret sin that was tearing him up. And that's what I told him. I haven't been back to see if he's dealt with it with God.

Well Well, I have read your posts in this thread and......WOW girl you are on a roll! Great testimony and great words. You would do well on a pastor team or even a pastor. Ya got it right.....few do. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. Matthew 7:14 The walk with Christ.....you have walked that narrow path and found the gate. God Bless Sister.