What If the False Teacher Sounds Like a Man of God?

[amigo de christo]

What if the false teacher sounds like a man of God?

Sounds......The religious lingo.....A false teacher can sound religious. But you got to look for key points.
Can he or she provide scriptural support for what they believe? Do they have large posts without providing scripture to support their beliefs?

What is a false teacher?

What if they do not believe that earth is flat? Do you have to believe the world is flat to be a true Christian?

What if they believe the earth is older than 6,000 years?

What if they do not believe the earth was created in 6 days?

To be a true Bible believer do you have to believe these things?

The earlier part of the scriptures came from oral traditions. For example Moses included two accounts of creation in Genesis. How accurate are the earlier parts of Genesis?

As far as foundational beliefs scriptures are very important, but does scripture only work? Should Christian beliefs remain as written in the 1st century? Does scripture only work?
The Bible never put an end to polygamy, concubinage, slavery, fathers picking their daughter's husbands and receiving money for them. The scriptures never required a wedding ceremony to married. Should Christianity go back to all this? If not then scripture only does not work.

Was it intended for Christianity to evolve? The scriptures teach us the foundation of Christian morals and how to apply Christianity to our lives, was it intended for us to take that knowledge and apply it to the future of Christianity?

How can Christianity evolve beyond the scriptures? This is where it is important to understand the spirit of the scriptures. It is that spirit and morals that we use to guide Christianity in its evolution. Living a moral life does not change. Worshipping the Lord does not change.

It is that spirit and morals that have guided us not to support polygamy, concubinage, slavery, fathers picking their daughter husbands and receiving money for them. And it is that spirit and moral that are going support church wedding ceremonies to be married. And now how are we going to respond to the equality of women in Christianity?

False teachers and heretics are relative terms. At one time the Catholic Church considered all Protestants to be heretics and Protestants pretty much believe the same of the Catholic Church.

So what is a true man or woman of God? So what is a "true teacher"?
Is it a man or woman that believes and teaches the morality and spirit of the scriptures?

In America we are faced with accepting communism, atheism, homosexuality, the murdering of babies, promiscuity, and drug use, are we going to accept all this? If not what are we going to do? Well for one, Vote! For another don't vote democrat. Go to church and help spread the Gospels and lead people to Christ.

folks sure can Sound religous all right .
But did you know that massive amounts can also sound so loving and even say GOD is love
and yet know NOT GOD OR HIS LOVE but only be following a harlots love and her father inclusive love
and the lie of an anti christ intefaith peace plan . Someone been real real busy .
And when i say real real busy , i say DECEIVING THIS people . WHY am i seeing
korans being kissed for world peace .
WHY am i seeing a LIE get sold for world peace .
WHY am i seeing the love of harlot being sold as though its the LOVE OF GOD
and WHY O why am i seeing a lot of christendom BUY that love and buy the lie . questions
WE MIGHT ALL be asking ourselves . bible time .

 

[amigo de christo]

That is all very good, but it lacks one thing: That approach is not unlike that of those who crucified Christ, for their approach also was by the letter and word alone, and lacked the Spirit of truth.

But you make lots of good points and cite many good passages that we would all do well to learn from. So then, having been warned by Peter, and Paul, and confirmed by John, that these days and times of the gentiles would suffer strong delusion--strong--delusion-- If one is swimming with the current during these times, what should they be suspicious of, those who preach with the current, or one who stands "courageously before" and often against the current? Or rather, think that God has left us orphans and no more sends anyone, as was His way for so long?

i wonder how phraisee like and letter like this approach sounds to this inclusive generation .
Ready
steady .
YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS for IF YOU BELIEVE NOT that I AM HE you shall DIE in your sins .
Now before you do accuse that of being of a pharisee , a hater , one who knows not the love of GOD
or a religous EXTREMIST .
IT WAS JESUS who said that . JESUS who said that . This generation is in dire trouble scott . and i mean DIRE grave and deadly danger trouble .

 

[amigo de christo]

Always remember when ya do digging for water under an outhouse
ya aint never gonna find anything fit to drink .
SO remember when you go digging for water of the cisterns of men gone wrong
That water wont be fit to drink at all . Have a good day now . and do remember
never follow a harlot . FOr within her chambers be only death leading to THE DEATH twice told .

 

[Episkopos]

What the church lacks is balance...rightly DIVIDING the word of God. Divide into what??? Into righteousness and holiness.

A lack of understanding of God's ways (plural) leads to religious extremism that contradicts either one half of the bible or the other. And the DISHONESTY of people who ignore plain teachings of Jesus in order to uphold their ignorance. People believe what they WANT to believe...not how they SHOULD believe.

And where false prophets are concerned...Someone who reads the bible and develops a religious position is not in a very good place to judge who is a prophet or not. A prophet is speaking deeper things. Of course an obvious deviation from the words of the bible is easy enough to spot. But remember how DISHONEST people are when it comes to formulating doctrines they think save them.

Jesus was put to death for speaking things that were not in the Tanach...although the ones that did the judging were not prophets...just holders of religious opinions and traditions. The very same thing as today...with people reading the very nuanced scriptures that requires a very careful study to get the balance right. Add to that the need to be spiritually awakened to the truth, and we get an almost impossible task in regard to figuring out who is from God and who is speaking from themselves.

The answer is having the faith of Christ. Jesus said...My sheep hear My voice. The truth is heard among those who are humble and fear His name.

The proud, the dishonest, the opinionated, the extremist, the self-serving, the self-interested...they will NEVER hear the truth. God has designed things to catch the hypocrites and make sure they remain in darkness.

So this is not about staging witch hunts looking for false prophets as much as taking the whole counsel of God to heart...staying honest and remaining open to the leading of God's Spirit. That is, unless one wants to remain dead in one's sins.

 

[Davy]

Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God what is God's.

If someone in aviation told you, would you give it greater consideration?

We have reached a time in Church history where the 'old bottles' are set in their ways, and most of them cannot handle the 'new wine' which needs room to expand. I've met young babes in Christ that understood more about these end times today per God's Word than those who have been going to Church all their lives. It's because they have not been subjected to all the bottle traditions of men over many years. God is no respecter of persons. He touches those whom He wants.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So here is something I think all of us should seriously consider. If one of our favorite Christian teachers began teaching something that we discovered clearly contradicted Scripture, would God's Word be enough for us to reject that teaching, even if we really liked and respected the person teaching it?

Did not want to bring your whole quote down.

This is why we need to study to show ourselves approved. Subtle heresy requires careful study. Young immature believers need the counsel of the more mature to show them from Gods Word why a teacher is preaching false doctrine.

We had a visiting preacher at my very first church about 45 years ago. He preached but I knew something was wrong, but could not define it. I was in bible college at the time and still growing doctrinally. Come to find out the man was preaching tri-modalism which denies the Trinity. I learned and found out the lies.

 

[bdavidc]

What the church lacks is balance...rightly DIVIDING the word of God. Divide into what??? Into righteousness and holiness.

A lack of understanding of God's ways (plural) leads to religious extremism that contradicts either one half of the bible or the other. And the DISHONESTY of people who ignore plain teachings of Jesus in order to uphold their ignorance. People believe what they WANT to believe...not how they SHOULD believe.

And where false prophets are concerned...Someone who reads the bible and develops a religious position is not in a very good place to judge who is a prophet or not. A prophet is speaking deeper things. Of course an obvious deviation from the words of the bible is easy enough to spot. But remember how DISHONEST people are when it comes to formulating doctrines they think save them.

Jesus was put to death for speaking things that were not in the Tanach...although the ones that did the judging were not prophets...just holders of religious opinions and traditions. The very same thing as today...with people reading the very nuanced scriptures that requires a very careful study to get the balance right. Add to that the need to be spiritually awakened to the truth, and we get an almost impossible task in regard to figuring out who is from God and who is speaking from themselves.

The answer is having the faith of Christ. Jesus said...My sheep hear My voice. The truth is heard among those who are humble and fear His name.

The proud, the dishonest, the opinionated, the extremist, the self-serving, the self-interested...they will NEVER hear the truth. God has designed things to catch the hypocrites and make sure they remain in darkness.

So this is not about staging witch hunts looking for false prophets as much as taking the whole counsel of God to heart...staying honest and remaining open to the leading of God's Spirit. That is, unless one wants to remain dead in one's sins.

Stop using claims of spiritual depth to shield your teaching from Scripture. You say “rightly dividing” means dividing God’s Word into righteousness and holiness. Second Timothy 2:15 never states that division. If you want to teach it as God’s command, establish it from the text. Your assertion is not proof.

You suggest that people who study the Bible are poorly equipped to judge a prophet because prophets speak “deeper things.” Scripture commands the examination you are trying to discredit: “Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). Paul says, “Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge” (1 Corinthians 14:29). A claim to prophetic insight gives you no exemption.

Your statement about Jesus speaking things outside the Tanach does not withstand His own words: “Had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me” (John 5:46). Jesus exposed His opponents’ unbelief through Scripture. You cannot use their rejection of Christ to portray rejection of your teaching as the same sin. You are not Christ, and your interpretations are not His voice merely because you say they are.

You accuse your critics of pride, dishonesty, and darkness while leaving their biblical objections unanswered. Those accusations establish nothing. The Bereans examined Paul’s preaching by searching Scripture, and they were commended for it (Acts 17:11). If an apostle’s preaching could be examined, yours certainly can.

Twisting God’s Word and discouraging people from testing spiritual claims serves deception. Paul warned that Satan presents himself as “an angel of light,” and that his ministers present themselves as “ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works” (2 Corinthians 11:14–15). Religious language does not make deception holy. Claiming to teach righteousness does not protect a false teacher from judgment.

This is the warning: repent of every teaching that contradicts Scripture, stop condemning people for examining your claims, and answer the passages placed before you. James 3:1 warns that teachers “shall receive the greater condemnation.” You are accountable for what you teach. Claims of superior understanding will not excuse error before God, and they will not silence biblical examination here.

A Serious Warning About Episkopos and His Teaching

 

[bdavidc]

We have reached a time in Church history where the 'old bottles' are set in their ways, and most of them cannot handle the 'new wine' which needs room to expand. I've met young babes in Christ that understood more about these end times today per God's Word than those who have been going to Church all their lives. It's because they have not been subjected to all the bottle traditions of men over many years. God is no respecter of persons. He touches those whom He wants.

Years of church attendance do not automatically give someone biblical understanding, and traditions can certainly get in the way. Jesus warned about “making the word of God of none effect through your tradition” (Mark 7:13). We all need to let Scripture correct what we have been taught.

But being a new believer does not automatically make someone free from error either. Paul warns that spiritual children can be “tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine” (Ephesians 4:14). A younger believer may understand a particular passage better than someone who has attended church for decades, but the teaching still needs to be demonstrated from Scripture.

We also need to keep the new wine illustration in context. In Mark 2:18–22, Jesus was answering a question about fasting and explaining His presence as the bridegroom. That passage does not establish that newer interpretations of end-times prophecy are the new wine, or that people questioning them are old bottles.

That is the point of this thread. Whether a teaching comes from a longtime preacher, a new believer, or someone claiming deeper revelation, we examine it by God’s Word. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We should be willing to abandon an old error, but just as willing to reject a new one.

 

[bdavidc]

That is all very good, but it lacks one thing: That approach is not unlike that of those who crucified Christ, for their approach also was by the letter and word alone, and lacked the Spirit of truth.

But you make lots of good points and cite many good passages that we would all do well to learn from. So then, having been warned by Peter, and Paul, and confirmed by John, that these days and times of the gentiles would suffer strong delusion--strong--delusion-- If one is swimming with the current during these times, what should they be suspicious of, those who preach with the current, or one who stands "courageously before" and often against the current? Or rather, think that God has left us orphans and no more sends anyone, as was His way for so long?

Scott, your teaching is subject to Scripture, and comparing those who examine it to the people who crucified Christ does not shield it from correction. Answer the biblical argument. In 1 Kings 13, a prophet claimed divine authority for a message that contradicted God’s command. Scripture says, “But he lied unto him” (verse 18). His claim to revelation did not make his message true.

You misrepresent why Christ’s opponents rejected Him. Jesus said, “Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition” (Mark 7:9). He also said, “Had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me” (John 5:46). Their problem was rejecting God’s Word, not faithfully submitting to it. You cannot use their unbelief to discredit people who require your teaching to agree with Scripture.

Your argument sets the Spirit of truth against the examination He commands. “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). The Bereans “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). They examined Paul’s preaching. Your teaching deserves no exemption.

You appeal to standing courageously against the current. Being opposed does not prove you are right. A false teacher can oppose the majority and still preach falsehood. Paul did not tell believers to accept whichever preacher seemed most courageous. He said, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). The message must agree with the apostolic gospel.

Your reference to strong delusion does not support your argument either. Those deceived “received not the love of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:10). Paul’s instruction was to hold fast the teaching delivered by the apostles, whether spoken or written (verse 15). That passage gives no protection to someone claiming spiritual insight while resisting biblical correction.

Stop suggesting that rejecting your teaching means rejecting someone God has sent. That is precisely the claim that needs examination. False teaching does not become truth because its teacher invokes the Spirit, claims courage, or accuses his critics of spiritual blindness. Repent of the errors exposed by Scripture and answer the passages before you. “Thy word is truth” (John 17:17). Your teaching must submit to that truth.

 

[bdavidc]

What If the False Teacher Sounds Like a Man of God?​

What if the False Teacher actually believes he is a Man sent from God?

He can sincerely believe he is sent by God and still be a false teacher. Jesus warned, “The time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service” (John 16:2). Those people would believe they were serving God, yet Jesus said, “These things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me” (verse 3). Sincerity does not establish truth.

That is why we examine what someone teaches rather than how convinced he sounds. God said, “I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied” (Jeremiah 23:21). A man’s confidence that God sent him cannot outweigh Scripture that exposes his error. “Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1).

 

[bdavidc]

The failed rapture prophecy in the bible is likely the reason for the rise of false teachers.

The fact that the rapture didn't take place means we require new teachers who can lead us through the Bible, exploring its teachings and relevance in today's world.

Fathom, which biblical prophecy are you claiming failed? Give the passage and show where God specified a deadline that passed. A prediction someone made about the rapture is not automatically a prophecy from Scripture. If a teacher assigned a date God never gave, that teacher’s prediction failed. That does not establish that the Bible failed.

Paul describes believers being “caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). That passage gives no calendar date. Jesus said, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man” (Matthew 24:36). You need to establish your accusation from the text rather than assume that an event still awaited is a broken promise.

Scripture also directly addresses the argument that Christ’s return has failed because it has not happened yet. Peter warned that scoffers would ask, “Where is the promise of his coming?” (2 Peter 3:4). His answer was, “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward” (verse 9). Delay does not mean failure.

We need faithful teachers who explain Scripture accurately. We do not need replacement teaching built on an unsupported accusation against God’s Word. Peter warned that false teachers would arise (2 Peter 2:1), and Paul warned that people would seek teachers to suit their own desires (2 Timothy 4:3–4). Neither passage attributes false teaching to a failed promise from God. Put the passage before us, and let us examine what it actually says.

 

[ScottA]

Scott, your teaching is subject to Scripture, and comparing those who examine it to the people who crucified Christ does not shield it from correction. Answer the biblical argument. In 1 Kings 13, a prophet claimed divine authority for a message that contradicted God’s command. Scripture says, “But he lied unto him” (verse 18). His claim to revelation did not make his message true.

You misrepresent why Christ’s opponents rejected Him. Jesus said, “Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition” (Mark 7:9). He also said, “Had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me” (John 5:46). Their problem was rejecting God’s Word, not faithfully submitting to it. You cannot use their unbelief to discredit people who require your teaching to agree with Scripture.

Your argument sets the Spirit of truth against the examination He commands. “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). The Bereans “searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). They examined Paul’s preaching. Your teaching deserves no exemption.

You appeal to standing courageously against the current. Being opposed does not prove you are right. A false teacher can oppose the majority and still preach falsehood. Paul did not tell believers to accept whichever preacher seemed most courageous. He said, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8). The message must agree with the apostolic gospel.

Your reference to strong delusion does not support your argument either. Those deceived “received not the love of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:10). Paul’s instruction was to hold fast the teaching delivered by the apostles, whether spoken or written (verse 15). That passage gives no protection to someone claiming spiritual insight while resisting biblical correction.

Stop suggesting that rejecting your teaching means rejecting someone God has sent. That is precisely the claim that needs examination. False teaching does not become truth because its teacher invokes the Spirit, claims courage, or accuses his critics of spiritual blindness. Repent of the errors exposed by Scripture and answer the passages before you. “Thy word is truth” (John 17:17). Your teaching must submit to that truth.

I told you what was wrong with your own claims. Then I only meant to reason with you using your own terms, but you just wrote a page speaking against me, though I even complimented you. And what--your big gripe is that my message doesn't "agree with the apostolic gospel?" That is the very thing that I was calling to your attention about your own claims.

But no, my claims and message, are not my own, but are indeed in agreement with the apostolic gospel. The problem (and I repeat) is you have aligned with the errors of false teachers that were foretold to come and have come--strongly, causing so much delusion, that you feel you should be correcting me regarding the very gospel you say must agree, while your own gospel is out in the weeds...and yes, you are every bit as unaware as those who crucified Christ--because, what you have done to me--you have done to Him.

But it's all quite enough, you have had your warning, and rejected it many times. I will not bother you further.

 

[Fathom]

Fathom, which biblical prophecy are you claiming failed? Give the passage and show where God specified a deadline that passed. A prediction someone made about the rapture is not automatically a prophecy from Scripture. If a teacher assigned a date God never gave, that teacher’s prediction failed. That does not establish that the Bible failed.

Paul describes believers being “caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air” (1 Thessalonians 4:17). That passage gives no calendar date. Jesus said, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man” (Matthew 24:36). You need to establish your accusation from the text rather than assume that an event still awaited is a broken promise.

Scripture also directly addresses the argument that Christ’s return has failed because it has not happened yet. Peter warned that scoffers would ask, “Where is the promise of his coming?” (2 Peter 3:4). His answer was, “The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward” (verse 9). Delay does not mean failure.

We need faithful teachers who explain Scripture accurately. We do not need replacement teaching built on an unsupported accusation against God’s Word. Peter warned that false teachers would arise (2 Peter 2:1), and Paul warned that people would seek teachers to suit their own desires (2 Timothy 4:3–4). Neither passage attributes false teaching to a failed promise from God. Put the passage before us, and let us examine what it actually says.

Paul’s theological trajectory shifts from an apocalyptic expectation of immediate historical rupture to an ecclesial framework centered on institutional endurance and covenantal continuity.

In his earliest letters (such as 1 & 2 Thessalonians and Galatians), Paul operated with an intense, imminent eschatology. He anticipated that the return of Christ would happen almost immediately within his lifetime.

As the years progressed and Christ did not immediately return, Paul’s theological paradigm shifted from preparing for an immediate exit to building up the structural of the church. His later letters (Ephesians, Colossians, and the Pastoral Epistles) transition away from urgent end-times panic toward structural organization, pastoral governance, relational unity, and establishing deep roots for institutional survival.

Peter notes in (2 Peter 3:16) that some parts of Paul's letters are hard to understand, leading untaught and unstable people to twist them to their own destruction. (martin luther)

 

[sondring7]

Paul’s theological trajectory shifts from an apocalyptic expectation of immediate historical rupture to an ecclesial framework centered on institutional endurance and covenantal continuity.

In his earliest letters (such as 1 & 2 Thessalonians and Galatians), Paul operated with an intense, imminent eschatology. He anticipated that the return of Christ would happen almost immediately within his lifetime.

As the years progressed and Christ did not immediately return, Paul’s theological paradigm shifted from preparing for an immediate exit to building up the structural of the church. His later letters (Ephesians, Colossians, and the Pastoral Epistles) transition away from urgent end-times panic toward structural organization, pastoral governance, relational unity, and establishing deep roots for institutional survival.

Peter notes in (2 Peter 3:16) that some parts of Paul's letters are hard to understand, leading untaught and unstable people to twist them to their own destruction. (martin luther)

+++some parts of Paul's letters are hard to understand, leading untaught and unstable people to twist them to their own destruction. (martin luther)
Do you claim that GOD allowed the NT to be distorted by Paul to such a degree that it would lead believers to destruction ??

 

[ScottA]

Paul’s theological trajectory shifts from an apocalyptic expectation of immediate historical rupture to an ecclesial framework centered on institutional endurance and covenantal continuity.

In his earliest letters (such as 1 & 2 Thessalonians and Galatians), Paul operated with an intense, imminent eschatology. He anticipated that the return of Christ would happen almost immediately within his lifetime.

As the years progressed and Christ did not immediately return, Paul’s theological paradigm shifted from preparing for an immediate exit to building up the structural of the church. His later letters (Ephesians, Colossians, and the Pastoral Epistles) transition away from urgent end-times panic toward structural organization, pastoral governance, relational unity, and establishing deep roots for institutional survival.

Peter notes in (2 Peter 3:16) that some parts of Paul's letters are hard to understand, leading untaught and unstable people to twist them to their own destruction. (martin luther)

What you have observed is not a shift in paradigm by Paul, but is the result of his ministry being most on the cusp between the Jews and the gentiles, thus the need for his "rightly dividing the word of truth."

Paul literally had two different ministries that purposely transitioned from the one to the other. The first was to establish the foundation (begun by Israel) of the church as being "Christ crucified." The second was to "press on" "leaving behind the elementary principles of Christ" with what was just the beginning of the times of the gentiles and a mere start on building the framework of the church. As he explained, "According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it."

 

[Fathom]

+++some parts of Paul's letters are hard to understand, leading untaught and unstable people to twist them to their own destruction. (martin luther)
Do you claim that GOD allowed the NT to be distorted by Paul to such a degree that it would lead believers to destruction ??

According to Heb 3:1 who is Apostle to sondring7 ?........LOL

 

[Scott Downey]

Paul’s theological trajectory shifts from an apocalyptic expectation of immediate historical rupture to an ecclesial framework centered on institutional endurance and covenantal continuity.

In his earliest letters (such as 1 & 2 Thessalonians and Galatians), Paul operated with an intense, imminent eschatology. He anticipated that the return of Christ would happen almost immediately within his lifetime.

As the years progressed and Christ did not immediately return, Paul’s theological paradigm shifted from preparing for an immediate exit to building up the structural of the church. His later letters (Ephesians, Colossians, and the Pastoral Epistles) transition away from urgent end-times panic toward structural organization, pastoral governance, relational unity, and establishing deep roots for institutional survival.

Peter notes in (2 Peter 3:16) that some parts of Paul's letters are hard to understand, leading untaught and unstable people to twist them to their own destruction. (martin luther)

2 Thess 2 is not reflecting imminence of a return. Read it and you can see Paul is not pushing that, and the scriptures remain true.
We desire the Lord's soon return, but even Jesus told us of the signs before His return, and they are still not met.

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and by our gathering together unto Him,

2 that ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if from us that the Day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means, for that Day shall not come, unless there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition,

4 who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sitteth as God in the temple of God, showing himself to be God.

5 Remember ye not that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

6 And now ye know what withholdeth, that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now holdeth back will hold him back, until he is taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming—

9 even him, whose coming is according to the working of Satan, with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 and with all the deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie,

12 that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Mark 13
19 For in those days shall be affliction such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created until this time, neither shall be.

20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved; but for the elect’s sake, whom He hath chosen, He hath shortened the days.

21 And then if any man shall say to you, ‘Lo, here is Christ!’ or, ‘Lo, He is there!’ believe him not;

22 for false christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed; behold, I have foretold you all things.

24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, ‘the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 and the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.’

26 And then shall they see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall He send His angels and shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

28 “Now learn a parable of the fig tree: When her branch is yet tender and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near.

29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.

31 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My words shall not pass away.

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man — no, not the angels who are in Heaven, neither the Son, but only the Father.

33 “Take ye heed, watch and pray; for ye know not when the time is.

34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch.

35 Watch ye therefore, for ye know not when the Master of the house cometh — at evening, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning —

36 lest coming suddenly, He find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you, I say unto all: Watch!”

 

[Davy]

Years of church attendance do not automatically give someone biblical understanding, and traditions can certainly get in the way. Jesus warned about “making the word of God of none effect through your tradition” (Mark 7:13). We all need to let Scripture correct what we have been taught.

But being a new believer does not automatically make someone free from error either. Paul warns that spiritual children can be “tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine” (Ephesians 4:14). A younger believer may understand a particular passage better than someone who has attended church for decades, but the teaching still needs to be demonstrated from Scripture.

We also need to keep the new wine illustration in context. In Mark 2:18–22, Jesus was answering a question about fasting and explaining His presence as the bridegroom. That passage does not establish that newer interpretations of end-times prophecy are the new wine, or that people questioning them are old bottles.

That is the point of this thread. Whether a teaching comes from a longtime preacher, a new believer, or someone claiming deeper revelation, we examine it by God’s Word. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). We should be willing to abandon an old error, but just as willing to reject a new one.

I'm not referring to newer interpretations as the 'new wine'. I point to the 'new wine' as meaning understanding of The Word of God by The Holy Spirit, full strength. For example, Lord Jesus made sure His Apostles understood what He was teaching, and it was the full strength Word of God as 'new wine'. The word 'new' is not what Lord Jesus was concentrating on when He gave that parable of the bottles. He was simply talking about fresh fermenting wine that needs room to expand, and thus new wine skins that won't crack. The 'new wine' was used in The Old Testament Books of Joel 1 and Isaiah 24 & 65 as a symbol also. It is comparable to the "strong meat" idea Paul used in Hebrews 5.

God chooses who is to hear and see with eyes to see, and ears to hear, and is not everyone during this present world time. That appears to be difficult for many brethren to accept but we will find out why that is when Lord Jesus returns. (I refer to Matthew 13).

Is there any one of us perfect in understanding all of God's written Word? Nope. But we should all strive to understand asking God's help, and following His Way to do it.

 

[Sel@h]

ahhhhh, there's plenty of them. How do you tell the genuine from the non genuine?

Hi, quietthinker,

A deep understanding of Scripture is the most important thing, but consider this simple test: If you pinch yourself and can still feel physical pain, you are not seeing the return of the “genuine“ Christ. According to 1 Corinthians 15:52, the real return of Jesus happens in an instant, transforming us into incorruptible, spiritual bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

*The Antichrist comes at the sixth trumpet, and Jesus follows at the seventh.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi, quietthinker,

A deep understanding of Scripture is the most important thing, but consider this simple test: If you pinch yourself and can still feel physical pain, you are not seeing the return of the “genuine“ Christ. According to 1 Corinthians 15:52, the real return of Jesus happens in an instant, transforming us into incorruptible, spiritual bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:52 (KJV) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

*The Antichrist comes at the sixth trumpet, and Jesus follows at the seventh.

Ah yes, but the real deal is to know Jesus NOW before He comes back in a physical return. Otherwise we risk being rejected in a "I never knew you" moment as we claim to have spoken and done things in His name.