Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[Marvelloustime]

You the one calling JESUS the liar and you use his own words to DO so epi .
IT aint me picking and choosing His words . ITS always been you .
However seeing this generation is very inclusive , though not all have bought the same lie you did ..............YET .
and yeah i say YET cause they soon will .
I SEEM to remember THIS JESUS you always seem to t ry and quoate and use his words agaisnt HIS OWN GOSPEL ,
HAD THIS to say .
AND i never once you seen preach it , and i always see you hammer those who do
. JESUS Did not say go into the world and teach them the things i said , BUT DONT TELL THEM THEY HAVE TO BELEIVE ON ME
In fact JESUS did not do as you do epi . For when a man reminds even an atheist of his dire need
TO DO , Exactly what JESUS told the desciples to tell them to do , YA CALL IT RELIGUOS extremsim .
JESUS didnt say go into all the world and gather all the religoins cause they all serve the same GOD in different ways .
JESUS DIDNT say GO into all the land and find common ground .
JESUS said TO BELIEVE ON HIM and TO observe all things HE DID teach .

@amigo de christo

 

[Laurina]

@amigo de christo
View attachment 91231

Here's the whole verse:
Is. 34:16
Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

In context, this chapter of Isaiah is talking of:

Is 34:8
For it is the day of the LORD'S vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

 But yes, read the Bible and know the warnings therein!!

 

[ProDeo]

Don't you think "commit" once, rather than "practice" more than once is present? The Greek word used means "commit" once.

This is one of the most hard verses to understand, checking the Greek as a layman the word "once" is not even used. It seems to me the KJV and the YLT have it right.

1Joh 3:9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. [YLT]

1Joh 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [KJV]

And when taken it literally -- and I see no reason to take it another way -- we will land in a circle of the need to re-born again and again every time we end up in a (little) sin. And as such I don't think that is the Gospel message.

So the mystery remains.

 

[ProDeo]

\

It's in the Present Active, which in Koine Greek is ongoing.

That would be nice, I don't see it.

 

[Episkopos]

This is one of the most hard verses to understand, checking the Greek as a layman the word "once" is not even used. It seems to me the KJV and the YLT have it right.

1Joh 3:9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. [YLT]

1Joh 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [KJV]

And when taken it literally -- and I see no reason to take it another way -- we will land in a circle of the need to re-born again and again every time we end up in a (little) sin. And as such I don't think that is the Gospel message.

So the mystery remains.

It means that as long as the seed (grace) of God remains in the soul of the believer, he cannot sin...he will not sin. The grace of God overcomes sin.

That means a number of things.

1. If a believer has never walked for at least a few days/weeks or so without ANY sin....that person was never born of the Spirit. That is for the initial grace.

2. What makes the initial grace run/leak out? The gradual or sudden unbelief of the one who is not used to walking in a place of perfection. The slow erosion of faith by the cares of this world. Like too many papers getting in the way of a fridge magnet.

3. After that initial grace has run out....the believer enters the Romans 7 phase...where most never proceed from.

 

[shepherdsword]

That would be nice, I don't see it.

 

[JustMe]

Once a person becomes a true believer, begotten by God through the spirit of His Son, they are said to remain begotten and the “holy seed” is not removed or lost.

Because of this, a believer is regarded as sinless through Christ’s spirit and their new alignment with God’s righteousness, not due to any personal works generated from self-will. There is nothing a believer can achieve on their own; the only role they have is to continue in faith as they grow more like Christ.

These believers are sinless not because of who they are in themselves, it is because of the perfect seed of the Son within them. They do not practice sin as a natural life style anymore, as under the law.

The idea of an “initial grace” is very dubious and questionable. Using the term grace at this stage of salvation is viewed as unnecessary and potentially confusing. The seed of Christ placed by God (his vital piece for salvation by his grace) is described as not leaving or “leaking out,” as if there were a temporary trial period in which a person could decide whether to rely on faith in God or not. Instead, scripture suggested that the decision has already been made in alignment with Christ and God, and that no one can interfere with these spiritual matters once they are established. It is also asserted that a genuine believer would not return to a life driven by carnal self-will after conversion.

It is further stated in scripture, by strong implications, that many who identify as followers of Christ in each generation are not genuine believers, and that only a remnant are chosen whose faith endures throughout their lives.

Those who are begotten of God today and possess the spirit of His Son are described as being dead to the law. A believer is said to be guided by God’s law through His Son, which produces spiritual fruit from God rather than from self-interest or ego. These “few” are described as holy and continue to bear spiritual fruit in their lives, ultimately derived from God and His righteousness by his Son.

 

[marks]

That would be nice, I don't see it.

Have you studied the language?

Much love!

 

[Episkopos]

Once a person becomes a true believer, begotten by God through the spirit of His Son, they are said to remain begotten and the “holy seed” is not removed or lost.

This is not accurate. An initial grace will invariably be lost. The idea is to go back to God for a fresh filling of grace. We are to go to the "throne of grace" in time of need. The parable of the 10 virgins is applicable here. Only the wise had brought along the extra oil...to the humble God gives MORE grace. But to the proud...their initial oil runs out and they are too smug to go back for more. Like burying one's talent.

Because of this, a believer is regarded as sinless through Christ’s spirit and their new alignment with God’s righteousness,

No...God sees us better than we can. It just SEEMS like He can't see our true condition. But to think that way is a grave error. Every idle word will come under scrutiny...

not due to any personal works generated from self-will.

Again you are not leaving room for the truth. Righteousness is required in order to support the gift of grace. Otherwise we are building on sand.

There is nothing a believer can achieve on their own; the only role they have is to continue in faith as they grow more like Christ.

There is a difference between what God provides in purity and what we produce in maturity.

These believers are sinless not because of who they are in themselves, it is because of the perfect seed of the Son within them. They do not practice sin as a natural life style anymore, as under the law.

You are speaking here superficially about sinlessness. Almost every modern believer is just trying their best to not sin..and failing. The elephant in the room is the religious ego that refuses to go to the cross and be put to death to allow the inner man to enter INTO Christ who is our perfection and sanctification.

 

[Brakelite]

Your not Go9d

Weird answer.

conquering sin is not sinless perfection.

One addiction, one bad habit, one sin at a time. Remember even a rose bud is perfect. May not be mature, but perfect in its own sphere. Same with us.

it is not being bound or enslaved by sin.

Agree.

 

[Episkopos]

Your not Go9d

conquering sin is not sinless perfection.

it is not being bound or enslaved by sin.

Jesus said...all who sin are slaves of sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Weird answer.

are you saying you are God?

One addiction, one bad habit, one sin at a time. Remember even a rose bud is perfect. May not be mature, but perfect in its own sphere. Same with us.

yes. remember this, perfection does not mean sinless.. many times it means mature. even paul still struggled with some sins.

Agree.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jesus said...all who sin are slaves of sin.

all who liv in sin are slaves to sin.

I stopped being a slave to sin 50 years ago. That does not mean sin does not creep into my life.. nor that all my struggles are gone.

that is part of maturing in Christ.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is one of the most hard verses to understand, checking the Greek as a layman the word "once" is not even used. It seems to me the KJV and the YLT have it right.

1Joh 3:9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten. [YLT]

1Joh 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [KJV]

And when taken it literally -- and I see no reason to take it another way -- we will land in a circle of the need to re-born again and again every time we end up in a (little) sin. And as such I don't think that is the Gospel message.

So the mystery remains.

I put once in there as how many times do you need to murder to be sentenced to death? Just once.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I put once in there as how many times do you need to murder to be sentenced to death? Just once.

true

But in context of 1 John, once is not the proper word.

 

[Episkopos]

I put once in there as how many times do you need to murder to be sentenced to death? Just once.

You know that you have to drive like 100,000 miles to be seen as a real truck driver...but murder just one person....

 

[shepherdsword]

I put once in there as how many times do you need to murder to be sentenced to death? Just once.

You don't even need to commit murder. All you have to do is hate.

 

[JustMe]

This is not accurate. An initial grace will invariably be lost. The idea is to go back to God for a fresh filling of grace. We are to go to the "throne of grace" in time of need. The parable of the 10 virgins is applicable here. Only the wise had brought along the extra oil...to the humble God gives MORE grace. But to the proud...their initial oil runs out and they are too smug to go back for more. Like burying one's talent.


No...God sees us better than we can. It just SEEMS like He can't see our true condition. But to think that way is a grave error. Every idle word will come under scrutiny...


Again you are not leaving room for the truth. Righteousness is required in order to support the gift of grace. Otherwise we are building on sand.


There is a difference between what God provides in purity and what we produce in maturity.


You are speaking here superficially about sinlessness. Almost every modern believer is just trying their best to not sin..and failing. The elephant in the room is the religious ego that refuses to go to the cross and be put to death to allow the inner man to enter INTO Christ who is our perfection and sanctification.

Let me just stop at the the first part comment you made without going down 'your' path of explanation. There is no such thing as 'initial' grace...as you seen to use it..

--added for your accommodation ----

If by that you mean the “initial” movement by God that turns a person’s heart toward conversion and His Son, then this is what many people believe, and it is very clear to me as well, since I experienced it personally in my own conversion. It was a process that unfolded over time, although you seem to mean something quite different that you have never explained clearly or simply.

This idea, along with your claim that “initial” grace can be lost, is something you have constructed in your own doctrine and is not what the Spirit communicates to me at all.

Even Catholics believe in this first initial contact from God for conversion, something we cannot take credit for—only God can—as part of His ongoing grace in our salvation.

 

[Episkopos]

Let me just stop at the the first part comment you made without going down 'your' path of explanation. There is no such thing as 'initial' grace...as you seen to use it..

If you have never had an initial grace you have not yet been regenerated in the Spirit. If you have received an initial grace and then sinned again, you have not retained your initial grace...there is no sin under grace. But you can still repent and seek to be filled with the Spirit subsequently.

--added for your accommodation ----

If by that you mean the “initial” movement by God that turns a person’s heart toward conversion and His Son, then this is what many people believe, and it is very clear to me as well, since I experienced it personally in my own conversion. It was a process that unfolded over time, although you seem to mean something quite different that you have never explained clearly or simply.

A man can be converted over time without being born of the Spirit. Righteousness is about what we do. So if you repented from evil works and continue to do good works...then you have a level of conversion that God can show mercy to. That is by His MERCY standard. The glory standard is by calling and election.

This idea, along with your claim that “initial” grace can be lost, is something you have constructed in your own doctrine and is not what the Spirit communicates to me at all.

All grace can and will be lost...as least initially. That's why there is a throne of grace we can go to in time of need (Heb 4:16).. God gives MORE grace to the humble (James 4:6)

Even Catholics believe in this first initial contact from God for conversion, something we cannot take credit for—only God can—as part of His ongoing grace in our salvation.

Not all people who convert to a religion are born of the Spirit. That's an error to think that we can decide if we are born again or not. A modern church error. But it's OK to convert to Christ by an act of the will and be water baptized....making a commitment to Christ to serve God to the best of one's ability. That's on the righteousness level.

On the holiness level the bible says...I was found of them that sought Me not. So for holiness it is GOD who decides if a man should follow Him or not...not people. Jesus went up to His disciples and said...follow Me! Not...Hi Jesus I mean to follow you. Those who followed Jesus that were not called by Jesus followed Him from a distance...then as now.

 

[Grailhunter]

Episkopos is pretty much the last person to take religious advise from.