Failed execution of female murderer

[Jack]

Do a study Jack

The Sword of Romans 13 - CultureWatch

My topic here involves how we are to understand the sword – and the state’s use of it – as found in Paul’s discussion of…

billmuehlenberg.com

I did. Killing is MURDER!

 

[sondring7]

It seems we’re having trouble communicating. My point was not in opposition to the theory of capital punishment, per se. My point was that we should not fool ourselves that in practice executing someone is inherently barbaric and brutal.

The only reason this thread exists is because our attempt to pretend we got it down to a painless and peaceful process was exposed as a fraud.

Agreed Wrangler the method needs to be quick & humane.

ps I do have a proviso though :-
If a murderer put their victim through a tortuous death then they should receive the same

eg If your loved one was slowly & painfully killed by a murderer, would you want them just to be killed instantly or let them experience what it was like for your loved one at the time they murdered them ?

 

[Jack]

Agreed Wrangler the method needs to be quick & humane.

ps I do have a proviso though :-
If a murderer put their victim through a tortuous death then they should receive the same

eg If your loved one was slowly & painfully killed by a murderer, would you want them just to be killed instantly or let them experience what it was like for your loved one at the time they murdered them ?

You profess to be Christian and You're preaching MURDER!!!

 

[Moonwood]

Praise God she's alive. It was God's Will for her to live. He always ultimately has control over who lives and dies.

 

[Lambano]

Maybe the best method, the guillotine; must be 100% effective if the head is severed, and quickest death. Plus it must be about the most painless. 2nd most painless, firing squad where they shoot the heart with multiple bullets, instant loss of blood pressure, the person faints unconscious.
If you have ever been injured seriously and in shock, the first few minutes of the injury can be very painless, afterwards that pain appears. Happened when I got bad burns on my legs.

Electric shock will fail if the connection to the body is not good. Also high resistance electrical burns can happen at point of contact.

Since no country currently uses the guillotine, we should ask Saudi Arabia for their statistics on botched beheadings with a sword. I'm guessing that if the first stroke doesn't do it, they just keep on chopping until it does. The Saudis are definitely a country we should desire to emulate.

 

[Lambano]

It was God's Will for her to live.

At least until she's healthy enough to be executed again.

 

[Jack]

Truly amazing that professing Christians advocate MURDER!!! Won't Judgment Day be interesting!!!

 

[Moonwood]

At least until she's healthy enough to be executed again.

Christians who speak and act uncharitably grieve God the most.

 

[markalan]

If your loved one was slowly & painfully killed by a murderer, would you want them just to be killed instantly or let them experience what it was like for your loved one at the time they murdered them ?

Have to disagree with you on this.
I would not want that.
Erika Kirk does not want that.
Patrick Clancy does not want that.

 

[Scott Downey]

Since no country currently uses the guillotine, we should ask Saudi Arabia for their statistics on botched beheadings with a sword. I'm guessing that if the first stroke doesn't do it, they just keep on chopping until it does. The Saudis are definitely a country we should desire to emulate.

guillotine is so dramatic but it works even if blade is dull, it is super heavy, hits hard on a thin edge.

 

[Scott Downey]

At least until she's healthy enough to be executed again.

Likely to happen again, although she has smaller veins. Bring over here a Saudi executioner

Medieval Christian Europe's executioner swords were inscribed, but I don't think they are available for hire anymore.

Executioner's sword - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Wrangler]

If your loved one was slowly & painfully killed by a murderer, would you want them just to be killed instantly or let them experience what it was like for your loved one at the time they murdered them ?

This is why throughout all of human history, the families of those murdered are not given the burden to execute justice. People know revenge is not a virtue. This is why God says vengeance is his.

 

[Wrangler]

You profess to be Christian and You're preaching MURDER!!!

I have to disagree with you here @Jack. I know you feel strongly about but killing and murder aren’t the same. Consider the burden these verses put on us:

• Micah 6:8 The LORD God has told us what is right and what he demands: "See that justice is done
• Romans 13:4 if you do what is wrong, be afraid! Because it is not for nothing that he holds the power of the sword; for he is God’s servant, there as an avenger to punish wrongdoers.
• 1 Corinthians 6:3 Don't you know we will judge angels? And if this is so, we can surely judge everyday matters.

I understand your point of letting her come to Christ in prison. It’s irresponsible to deny that just because we’re Christian’s suggest we don’t have Biblical burdens besides evangelism that extend to our supporting civilian authorities carrying out their God given responsibilities.

Being a religious and moral people, we live by the maxim of equal protection under the law. And of course, I’m talking about laws we humans are blessed to enact being a free people. Now, with respect to capital punishment, I stand opposed, in theory. In practice, we must live under the law OR change the law. It is law that separates civilization from barbarism. And you know our God is not a God of chaos but order, laws and ordinances.

An injustice in our system is violating a ‘public and speedy‘ trail. The Fort Hood massacre mass murderer waited 17 years to be given justice. The Tennessee woman waited 30 years. The adjudication should be complete within a lunar cycle, IMO.

 

[Lambano]

ps I do have a proviso though :-
If a murderer put their victim through a tortuous death then they should receive the same

I hear this method of execution is nice and excruciating*. Will this suffice for your need for revenge?

(*Latin pun intentional.)

 

[Lambano]

Christians who speak and act uncharitably grieve God the most.

Shh! Don't tell anybody but the Lord, but I'm praying that the Governor of Tennessee commutes her sentence to life imprisonment with no hope of parole.

 

[Wrangler]

I came across this article and thought some would find it edifying.

The Bible is a law book * WorldNetDaily * by Scott Lively

'The regularity of creation is itself a covenant – a binding legal arrangement between God and the cosmos'

www.wnd.com

 

[Moonwood]

Shh! Don't tell anybody but the Lord, but I'm praying that the Governor of Tennessee commutes her sentence to life imprisonment with no hope of parole.

Imprisonment or death is not what God wants to happen to her though. If you're going to claim to follow Him, then you need to want to do His will: which is to see to the healing and conversion of souls.

Christian moral theology never treats the act alone as the whole story. God judges both the act and the heart, and that means Christians have to consider a person's circumstances. The heart matters because charity, responsibility, and the willingness to protect life are interior realities before they ever become external actions.

And this is exactly why Christians cannot judge the way humans often do — by the act alone. If God judged us the way humans do, without considering the heart, the wounds, the intent, or the circumstances, every one of us would be condemned.

 

[Wrangler]

Imprisonment or death is not what God wants to happen to her though.

Wrong. See post #113.

If you're going to claim to follow Him, then you need to want to do His will: which is to see to the healing and conversion of souls.

Wrong. See post #113.

And this is exactly why Christians cannot judge the way humans often do — by the act alone.

Wrong. Most judges in America are Christian. See post #113.

 

[Lambano]

Imprisonment or death is not what God wants to happen to her though. If you're going to claim to follow Him, then you need to want to do His will: which is to see to the healing and conversion of souls.

I agree.

I met a man who was called to prison ministry. He was a tough hombre; had spent considerable time inside himself before God called him. Had to be tough; those aren't nice people in there, but God had also done something with his heart. God has special people for that task. I can't do that ministry, but I respect those who do.

 

[Moonwood]

I have to disagree with you here @Jack. I know you feel strongly about but killing and murder aren’t the same. Consider the burden these verses put on us:

• Micah 6:8 The LORD God has told us what is right and what he demands: "See that justice is done
• Romans 13:4 if you do what is wrong, be afraid! Because it is not for nothing that he holds the power of the sword; for he is God’s servant, there as an avenger to punish wrongdoers.
• 1 Corinthians 6:3 Don't you know we will judge angels? And if this is so, we can surely judge everyday matters.

I understand your point of letting her come to Christ in prison. It’s irresponsible to deny that just because we’re Christian’s suggest we don’t have Biblical burdens besides evangelism that extend to our supporting civilian authorities carrying out their God given responsibilities.

Being a religious and moral people, we live by the maxim of equal protection under the law. And of course, I’m talking about laws we humans are blessed to enact being a free people. Now, with respect to capital punishment, I stand opposed, in theory. In practice, we must live under the law OR change the law. It is law that separates civilization from barbarism. And you know our God is not a God of chaos but order, laws and ordinances.

An injustice in our system is violating a ‘public and speedy‘ trail. The Fort Hood massacre mass murderer waited 17 years to be given justice. The Tennessee woman waited 30 years. The adjudication should be complete within a lunar cycle, IMO.

I think part of our disagreement comes from talking about two different levels of judgment. You’re focusing on the state’s responsibility to maintain order; I’m talking about the Christian responsibility to imitate God’s heart toward the sinner. Those aren’t the same thing, and Scripture treats them differently.

Yes, civil authority has a legitimate role in restraining evil. Romans 13 makes that clear. Christians can support due process, lawful adjudication, and the rule of law. But none of those passages say that Christians should desire the death of a sinner, or that God wants capital punishment. In fact, Scripture is explicit on the opposite point:

“I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live.” (Ezekiel 33:11)

God’s desire is always repentance, healing, and conversion — never destruction. And Jesus shows this repeatedly. The clearest example is the adulterous woman in John 8. The Mosaic law explicitly required her execution. The Pharisees weren’t misreading anything; the penalty was death. Yet Jesus stops the execution. He doesn’t deny the seriousness of her sin, but He reveals God’s heart: mercy ordered toward conversion.

“Neither do I condemn you. Go, and sin no more.”

If God desired the death of the sinner, that moment would have affirmed it. Instead, Jesus shows that even when the law permits death, God desires repentance and restoration. That is the model Christians are commanded to imitate.

The adulterous‑woman scene also highlights the danger of judging and condemning from a place of hypocrisy. Jesus forces every accuser to confront their own sin before they dare to condemn someone else. Humans almost never judge perfectly, much less without hypocrisy. All of us are guilty of sin, and many are guilty of the very sins they condemn in others. This is why Jesus shifts the focus from the act alone to the heart — because only God can judge without hypocrisy, and Christians must imitate His mercy rather than human self‑righteousness.

And the fact that Christina Pike survived two lethal injections and was declared brain-dead yet lived again should at least remind us that God remains sovereign over life and death. If God had willed her destruction, she would not be here. The very fact that she continues to live suggests that God has not finished with her — that He still desires her repentance, healing, and conversion. God alone is the giver and taker of life, and He often uses even the justice system to reveal His mercy.

So yes, the state may have the legal authority to punish wrongdoing. But Christians are not permitted to imitate the state’s posture. We are commanded to imitate God’s posture — and God’s posture is mercy, patience, and the hope of conversion. Supporting the rule of law doesn’t require wanting someone’s death; it requires wanting justice. And justice in the Christian sense is always restorative before it is punitive.

My point about Christina Pike is simply this: Christians must not judge her soul by the act alone. God judges both act and heart, wounds and intent, circumstances and interior reality. We can acknowledge that she must face legal consequences while still desiring her healing and salvation — and frankly, after thirty years of physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual imprisonment, I think she has already paid a profound price. The suffering she has endured is not trivial. God sees the whole of a person’s life, not just the moment of their worst sin. Christians are allowed to recognize that interior punishment, remorse, trauma, and decades of confinement often accomplish far more in the soul than any further external penalty could.

So I’m not arguing against due process or lawful adjudication. I’m arguing that Christians should align their desires with God’s will — and God’s will is the conversion of the sinner, not their annihilation. Jesus Himself shows us that mercy is not weakness; it is the very shape of divine justice.