rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Hmmmmm
I guess there are, indeed, no postrib rapture verses.
But we knew that already
What God Says About the False Pre-trib Rapture
- Thread starter Davy
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I guess there are, indeed, no postrib rapture verses.
But we knew that already
IMO:
o. 3.5 years tribulation +3.5 years great tribulation = seven 360-day years
o. Rapture is *between the two,* at the seventh trump.
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
imho:
Prophecy ( Time of Jacob's Trouble ) cannot be in The Mystery and
The Mystery ( God's Great GRACE Departure! ) cannot be in Prophecy, thus, these two different
Programs of God Must Be Rightly Divided, eh?:
"Prophecy/Covenants/Law" { earthly } Christ, Messiah/King And The Twelve,
gospel of the kingdom, Israel [Twelve tribes] prominent! {past/future} "faith Plus works"
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)
God's Current Context of His "Revelation" To One apostle, Paul:
"Mystery/GRACE!" { Heavenly! } Risen And Glorified Christ, Gospel Of GRACE,
Jew And Gentile "Equal!" In The One Body Of CHRIST!
-------------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
If you had actually read... and studied... what Apostle Paul really said in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17 you would have clearly understood that Paul was pointing to the LAST DAY of this world for Jesus' future coming to gather His Church.
Men's false Pre-trib Rapture theory wrongly teaches the idea of a 'rapture' for ALL... the Church, when that is not what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thess.4.
The idea of the 'rapture' (which word is actually translated to "caught up" in the KJV), is only... about the saints STILL ALIVE ON EARTH WHEN JESUS DESCENDS FROM HEAVEN WITH THE RESURRECTED SAINTS.
Paul says the asleep saints are raised first, and Jesus brings them with Him on His descent to earth.
Then at that SAME time, on Jesus' descent, the still alive saints are "caught up" (i.e., raptured) to Jesus in the "air" on His descent to earth.
And though Paul did not include the 'where' Jesus descends to, it is written in Zechariah 14, and will be upon the Mount of Olives where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1.
And per John 6, Jesus showed the future resurrection happens ONLY on the LAST DAY of this world when He comes.
So you have ample Bible Scripture witness that the Pre-trib Rapture theory is false, so why do you follow those men behind it instead of listening to Lord Jesus in His Word and to His Apostle Paul?
<last day of this world>
<Jesus reigns 1000 years>
So after this world sees its last day, Jesus rules it for 1000 years. Could be a time warp?
More likely Jesus reigns this world from Jerusalem for 1000 years. Then after that come new heavens and earth (Revelation, chapters 21, 22).
Zechariah 14:46 notes that Jesus will return and stand on the Mount of Olives, causing a split that allows Jews to flee. After the Jews escape Jesus and his angels will engage Satan and his angels. Satan and his angels will all be imprisoned in the earth at that time, and Jesus will then rule the earth for 1000 years.
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That idea is from the pre-trib rapture theory doctors.
They don't want you to know about Jesus' feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives, on earth, bringing all His saints with Him there, per Zechariah 14.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Daniel says 7 years, with the aod in the middle.
The mid trib rapture is rev14 :14.
The wrath part follows the mid trib Jewish rapture.
The church is raptured pretrib.
Your main problem is the setting BY JESUS at the time of the rapture.
Your timing has the wrong setting.
Davy noted:
<That idea is from the pre trib rapture doctors>
That idea is from the Bible:
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the arcangel, and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with then them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord " (1Thessalonians 4:15-16, Revelation 14:14-16).
This occurs at the seventh trump (Revelation 11:15-19), which is BEFORE the bowl judgments
Yes, Jesus does afterwards return with those saints, along with his holy angels. Satan and his angels then enjoy a free 1000-year vacation in the Hotel Purgatory.
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
You're not rightly dividing God's Precious Word of Truth if you contradict Jesus by believing that the dead will be resurrected at multiple different hours/times in the future rather than the one coming hour/time when Jesus said ALL of the dead will be resurrected (John 5:28-29).
Davy noted:
<Jesus does not take believers at the midpoint>
o. 2Thessalonians 4:16-17 says:
"Lord himself will descend.. meet the Lord in the air."
o. Revelation 14:26 says:
"So he who sat upon the cloud swung his sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped."
o. 1Corinthians 15:52 says:
"...at the LAST TRUMPET...the dead in Christ WILL BE RAISED.. "
The last of the seven trumpets is at the midpoint of the last "seven."
The following events all occur at that time:
o. The two witnesses are raptured (Rev 11:12)
o. Believing Jews are rescued when Michael arises (Rev 11:25)
o. Jesus receives authority over the world (Rev 11:15)
o. Judgment of the righteous dead occurs (Rev 11:7)
o. Bowl judgments ensue (Rev chapter 16, preceded by the rapture).
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Davy said:
< They don't want you to know>
Ad-hominem comments are non-probative.
<Bringing saints Zechariah 14>
Perhaps you meant 1Thessalonians 4:14.
Zechariah 14:4 sounds like the flight to Petra Been there, seen it.
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Mat 24
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Your rapture model does not have normal life at the rapture.
Your model has mass martyrdom and tge mark of the beast.
Both going on for 3.5 years and no saint surviving.
Virtually the opposite of scripture
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
You are placing the rapture after the martyrdom of all the saints.
Midway into the 7 yr trib Daniel places the AOD.
And this happens ( the gathering of the Jews)
Rev 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped
(There is your postrib prewrath rapture.)
Technically a mid 7yr trib rapture.
That gathering is after the church has been in heaven for 3.5 years.
Your timing is not scriptures timing.
rebuilder 454 noted:
<you are placing the rapture after the martyrdom of all the saints>
IMO:
o. The rapture occurs at the midpoint of the last "seven" of the seventy sevens (Daniel 9-24-27).
o. The Bible says the dead are caught up first, after that the *living* (1Thessalonians 4:16). So all the saints are not dead at that time.
o. The "saints" are all over the earth. I presume the rapture is Middle Eastern only, since the contention is over the land of Israel and the temple. No point in removing believers living elsewhere.
o. The subsequent return and battle of Jesus and his angels against Satan and his angels is shown in Revelation 19:11-29:3.
It's in the BOOK.
<you are placing the rapture after the martyrdom of all the saints>
IMO:
o. The rapture occurs at the midpoint of the last "seven" of the seventy sevens (Daniel 9-24-27).
o. The Bible says the dead are caught up first, after that the *living* (1Thessalonians 4:16). So all the saints are not dead at that time.
o. The "saints" are all over the earth. I presume the rapture is Middle Eastern only, since the contention is over the land of Israel and the temple. No point in removing believers living elsewhere.
o. The subsequent return and battle of Jesus and his angels against Satan and his angels is shown in Revelation 19:11-29:3.
It's in the BOOK.
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Jesus returns "afterwards" what??? You just agreed that event happens when He returns on the 7th Trumpet.
The reason I quoted that event of Christ's feet touching down upon the Mount of Olives at His future coming is to show just where Apostle Paul was pointing to with the idea of Jesus' DESCENT from Heaven when He comes.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Again, it says the AC overcomes thecsaints.
It says power is given to him to overcome the saints.
It says all take the mark.
ALL TAKE THE MARK that are not in the book.
If you refuse the mark, you die.
Show me that in your model.
It does not fit.
IOW, you omitted all that.
If you factor in those verses from rev 13, then you would need to start over.
That is one dynamic.
The other is the setting.
Your model has the opposite setting of mat 24.
EXACT OPPOSITE OF JESUS'S SETTING, of normal life and everyday life, AT HIS COMING.
Davy noted:
<feet touching>
o. "Feet touching" is at the SECOND COMING, which is all the way to the EARTH.
o. The RAPTURE at the 7th trump is descent of Jesus from the DOMAIN of HEAVEN to our upper atmosphere, then back with us to the DOMAIN of HEAVEN = ANOTHER DIMENSION, much like our own, nice place.
o. Heaven is another dimension. Jesus does not descend from another dimension, he comes to our universe and descends from the sky.
o. People who refuse the mark do not die, rather they are refused certain privileges.
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rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
The innumerable number are in heaven during the trib.
Innumerable.
Billions?
ALL MARTYRED DURING THE TRIB.
Rev 20 says they were beheaded for not worshipping the beast. Not getting the mark.
You are definately wrong.
Refuse the mark and you die.
Davy noted:
<feet touching>
o. "Feet touching" is at the SECOND COMING, which is all the way to the EARTH.
o. The RAPTURE at the 7th trump is descent from the domain of heaven to our upper atmosphere, then back to the domain of heaven.
o. Heaven is another dimension.
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That idea is MADE UP by the false Pre-trib Rapture doctors. It is NOWHERE written in God's Word, and certainly not by Paul in 1 Thess.4.
The two angels who appeared in Acts 1 when Jesus ascended to Heaven on a cloud said Jesus will return in like manner. And that took place upon the Mount of Olives, which is where Zechariah 14 reveals where Jesus will return. So there it is, believe God's Word as written, or put your misplaced faith in men. You decide. I've done my job for The LORD with warning you.
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