Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

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JustMe

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We are not to judge by emotions. That's what caused men to fall. They disobeyed because it didn't seem right to not partake of the forbidden fruit.
Emotions are consistently involved in judgment… I will present this as a brief academic lecture note....there is no simple explanation as emotions and judgment is a complex relationship and formula in man and God.

Emotions and the mind are deeply connected to truth (of and from God), functioning as essential instruments for spiritual and personal development rather than simply acting as barriers to reason. Philosophical and theological viewpoints indicate that emotions are not merely responses but value-based judgments that assist us in evaluating the importance of facts and realities. In a spiritual framework, emotions are intended to respond to truth in a meaningful manner, enabling individuals to relate to God and others through fitting, faithful responses instead of manipulation or mere affective experience.

Developing the mind and emotions involves building awareness and self-regulation so they align with objective reality and divine purpose. This process calls for testing understanding through lived practice, separating fleeting emotional states from lasting truths, and applying mindfulness or reflection to reshape automatic reactions into deliberate, constructive actions. By combining logic, emotion, and discernment, individuals can cultivate emotional intelligence that encourages compassion, justice, and a deeper grasp of truth across all aspects of life.

The ultimate aim is to employ both mind and emotion in service to God in a fruitful way, steering clear of both cold rationality and uncontrolled emotional excess. This integrated approach highlights that faith requires engagement of the whole person, where body, mind, and emotions are trained together to perceive and respond to God’s reality. Through this integration, individuals can attain a balanced life in which emotions direct attention while reason supplies structure, resulting in deep discernment and spiritual growth.
 

amigo de christo

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You should know whether it's good or bad Armour.
The NT, including Jesus and Paul, stated that we should be one.
Philippians 2:2
2Complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.



Jesus said:
John 17:20
20“I do not ask for these only, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, that they may all be one,



If each denomination, including the non-denominational churches, use the same bible and yet teach different doctrine...it means that there is more than one truth.

I wonder what you would call a "detail".

Is obedience a detail?
Is OSAS a detail?

Either one could cause a person to be expelled from the Kingdom of Heaven.
There's a member on this forum right now advising me that I could sin and still be saved.
Is THIS a detail?
OH yes indeed my friend , DOCTRINE sure does matter . and it matters
that we do agree upon THE TRUTH . to b e likeminded On the pure and holy doctrine of the LORD
and later that which the apostels had left for the church .
DOCTRINE MATTERS . cause what most seem not to realize
YET PETER DID , is that those who do wrest the scriptures , DO SO unto their own DESTRUCTION .
Making void T RUTH is NOT GOOD , not at all .
We are to be likeminded and THE DOCTRINE sure does matter . Cause what we feed on
SURE does matter . BIBLE time in the house .
And remember , that no man is infallible and is capable of error .
Read daily them lovely scriptures and always test all .
 

GodsGrace

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OH yes indeed my friend , DOCTRINE sure does matter . and it matters
that we do agree upon THE TRUTH . to b e likeminded On the pure and holy doctrine of the LORD
and later that which the apostels had left for the church .
DOCTRINE MATTERS . cause what most seem not to realize
YET PETER DID , is that those who do wrest the scriptures , DO SO unto their own DESTRUCTION .
Making void T RUTH is NOT GOOD , not at all .
We are to be likeminded and THE DOCTRINE sure does matter . Cause what we feed on
SURE does matter . BIBLE time in the house .
And remember , that no man is infallible and is capable of error .
Read daily them lovely scriptures and always test all .
Of course I agree.
But not all do.

Some here seem to believe that Christians can believe different doctrine but there is only one truth.
That is one of the strangest statements I have ever heard.
I tried to get the member to explain, but he prefers to eat popcorn instead....
which is his right, of course.

I say there is only ONE TRUTH.
And we better find out what it is.
 
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amigo de christo

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That is not what holy means.

1 Peter 1:16
16Since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”


Do you think we can be holy like God is holy?

We are told to be holy.
Are we supposed to be sinless?
Is this possible?
Their can be Only one . as in TRUTH .
And any guesses on who decides what IS TRUTH .
A hint , ITS NOT THE ever changing views of man and of society .
A hint , ITS not what man says that is always truth .
BUT i can assure us all WHAT IS RECORDED in said Bible IS TRUTH
and WAS INSPIRED BY GOD .
GOD that cannot lie . but reader and us all , beware
cause i surely know of another one .
And he can play as though he be GOD and he sure can claim to be love and God .
ONLY HE AINT . Hims the devil .
SO now that i have our attention . BIBLE time . for the time to test all is NOW .
There are many false prophets amongst us in these last days and hours upon earth .
And the false prophets now heed the lying spirit that is sent
unto all false religoins , unto all denomaintoins and unto the RCC .
THIS spirit has come to make them as one
This spirit has come in under the cliam it is GOD and it is love
and it has a plan for world peace .
ONLY IT THE D EVIL . IT is the devil himself with his harlot and these spirits are seducing
all of the decieved to become as one man . watch out .
 
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GodsGrace

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Emotions are consistently involved in judgment… I will present this as a brief academic lecture note....there is no simple explanation as emotions and judgment is a complex relationship and formula in man and God.

Emotions and the mind are deeply connected to truth (of and from God), functioning as essential instruments for spiritual and personal development rather than simply acting as barriers to reason. Philosophical and theological viewpoints indicate that emotions are not merely responses but value-based judgments that assist us in evaluating the importance of facts and realities. In a spiritual framework, emotions are intended to respond to truth in a meaningful manner, enabling individuals to relate to God and others through fitting, faithful responses instead of manipulation or mere affective experience.

Developing the mind and emotions involves building awareness and self-regulation so they align with objective reality and divine purpose. This process calls for testing understanding through lived practice, separating fleeting emotional states from lasting truths, and applying mindfulness or reflection to reshape automatic reactions into deliberate, constructive actions. By combining logic, emotion, and discernment, individuals can cultivate emotional intelligence that encourages compassion, justice, and a deeper grasp of truth across all aspects of life.

The ultimate aim is to employ both mind and emotion in service to God in a fruitful way, steering clear of both cold rationality and uncontrolled emotional excess. This integrated approach highlights that faith requires engagement of the whole person, where body, mind, and emotions are trained together to perceive and respond to God’s reality. Through this integration, individuals can attain a balanced life in which emotions direct attention while reason supplies structure, resulting in deep discernment and spiritual growth.
JustMe
The above is very involved and I probably agree with most of it...
but this would fall under philosophy and not theology...would you agree?

Your very first line has a potential error in it...
what say you?

You stated:
"emotions and judgment is a complex relationship and formula in man and God."

I'd say that man can judge with emotion since it is impossible to keep it out of any everyday situation.
This would agree with your academic lecture note.

But does God judge with emotion?
This would imply that God could get mad at me and punish me because of this emotion of His?
Would this God be a reliable God? One that we could put our trust in to be just?

How could we be sure that God is being just and not basing his judgement on His emotion?

Does He have a continuous moral character or not?
 

amigo de christo

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Of course I agree.
But not all do.

Some here seem to believe that Christians can believe different doctrine but there is only one truth.
That is one of the strangest statements I have ever heard.
I tried to get the member to explain, but he prefers to eat popcorn instead....
which is his right, of course.

I say there is only ONE TRUTH.
And we better find out what it is.
Always remember do we seek to appease man and his rights
OR do we seek to please GOD WHO IS ALWAYS RIGHT .
Have you ever wondered why i dont say HEY its their right .
I dont support the rights of anyone or thing contrary to HE WHO IS and shall always be right .
Nor am i saying you do my friend .
I just honestly cannot stand that phrase . oh its their right .
In the church there is only one right . That which pleases GOD .
 
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Lizbeth

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We are not to judge by emotions. That's what caused men to fall. They disobeyed because it didn't seem right to not partake of the forbidden fruit.
But God calls it rebellion doesn't He.....? If we look deeper I think we'll find that pride is at the root and bottom of it. Wanting to be as gods - our own boss. As Leviathan (Satan, serpent) is king over the children of pride.

(Though it is certainly true that though we have emotions we are not to live by them and be ruled by them, but by the Lord and His every word. Our emotions need to be sanctified and brought under the Lordship of Christ like everything else about us.)
 

GodsGrace

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Always remember do we seek to appease man and his rights
OR do we seek to please GOD WHO IS ALWAYS RIGHT .
Have you ever wondered why i dont say HEY its their right .
I dont support the rights of anyone or thing contrary to HE WHO IS and shall always be right .
Nor am i saying you do my friend .
I just honestly cannot stand that phrase . oh its their right .
In the church there is only one right . That which pleases GOD .
We cannot FORCE anyone to agree.
It is their right to disagree.
Otherwise we'd be living in a totalitarian state.

It is their right to disagree with Christianity.
It is NOT their right to try to change it.
 
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Episkopos

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Always remember do we seek to appease man and his rights
OR do we seek to please GOD WHO IS ALWAYS RIGHT .
Have you ever wondered why i dont say HEY its their right .
I dont support the rights of anyone or thing contrary to HE WHO IS and shall always be right .
Nor am i saying you do my friend .
I just honestly cannot stand that phrase . oh its their right .
In the church there is only one right . That which pleases GOD .
And what pleases God is humility and the fear of the Lord....also having no guile, honesty and uprightness. Those are the kind of people (who practice such) that inherit the kingdom.

Doctrine is mainly about BEHAVIOUR and ATTITUDE.

How is our form of doctrine making us BEHAVE? Does our doctrine make us condemn the righteous, the meek, the pure-hearted and God-fearers? If so then the doctrine is false.
 

GodsGrace

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Don't let what you think you know already get in the way of the depth of meaning in the text.
What would you say that I THINK that I know that was not correct?
I said two things:

1. Moses was set aside for the work of God.
As also are you.


Holy means to be set aside...It does NOT mean to be perfect.
Those of us who believe in the Lord Jesus are set aside to do His work.

2. God is everywhere.

God was in the bush (or was it an angel? Or was it both and one and the same?) speaking to Moses.
You asked if the fact that God was there made it holy.

I replied that God is everywhere.

Which of those two statements is incorrect?

Logically...God said that the ground was holy. Is ALL ground holy? Was God saying that Moses had to go bare-foot everywhere?

Looks like you want to add to what I stated.
That does not make what I stated incorrect.

You may now continue and add to my statements...
which is appreciated....
but sans having to proclaim that I am leaving something out.
So you are missing the point... holiness is where God is. Holiness is about LOCATION. Our only way to be holy is to enter into Christ who is our holiness.
Ah. Yes.
And I would have to agree.

Jesus said we are to ABIDE IN HIM.
John 15:5
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
 

GodsGrace

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Lack of emotions, such as the ability to empathize with others, for example, is sometimes an indication that something needs healing.
I sure do wish we'd come to understand the difference between:
COMPASSION
EMPATHY

Why in the name of our God would you want empathy?
I'd be very happy to gift you mine.
 

MostlyConfused

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The latest new word in this thread is empathy and how important it is to understand the goodness of the Lord, His riches, His love for use, His holiness.

The Bible views a lack of empathy—often described as a cold heart, hardness of heart, or indifference—as a serious spiritual failing, though the modern English word "empathy" does not explicitly appear in biblical text. Instead, Scripture uses terms like compassion (splagchnizomai), mercy, and loving-kindness. [1, 2, 3]

What the Bible Says About Lacking Empathy
    • A Hard Heart: Scripture links a lack of caring emotion to a "cold heart" and flawed thinking, noting that what a person thinks dictates how they feel. [1]
    • The Example of Jesus: Jesus consistently showed deep emotional and physical response to human suffering—weeping at the tomb of Lazarus (John 11:35), having compassion on harassed crowds (Matthew 9:36), and understanding human weakness (Hebrews 4:15). [1, 2, 3, 4]
    • Core Commands:Believers are explicitly instructed to care for others and share in their emotional states:
      • "Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn" (Romans 12:15).
      • "If one part suffers, every part suffers with it" (1 Corinthians 12:26).
      • "Whoever sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him?" (1 John 3:17). [1, 2]
You are just employing the usual tactic of the crowd that follows this man wherever he goes to argue with him and set nets to try and catch him in them. He’s supposed to see a brother or sister in need of tearing him down and shooting like a not so covert sniper at him from the shadows and just let himself be beat up to supply their “need” and make them feel in control or soothed or make them feel good? That’s exactly how my parent and family was. What passed for love was setting yourself on fire to keep them warm, cozy and in their soothing fictions and delusions. Talk about suicidal empathy!
Truly, if Jesus were on earth now in human form, you would be talking the same about Him when he rebuked and corrected the Pharisees, saying he had no empathy!
 

Lizbeth

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MostlyConfused
I'm going to post something for you from Gemini.
Let me clarify that WE ARE NOT TO LEARN FROM AI....
however, it perfectly states what holiness is.

You can take it or leave it...up to you.

Holy means to be set apart.
God is Holy....HE is also set apart.... from everything....because He is God.

WE are also holy....
we are set apart...for service to God.

2 Timothy 2:21
21Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.



Source: Gemini

The word holy primarily means set apart, distinct, or connected to God and religion. [1, 2, 3]

Core Definitions

    • Set Apart: In biblical and theological contexts (such as the Hebrew word kadosh), to be holy means to be unique and separated from ordinary things for a special purpose.
    • Divine and Pure: It describes things, places, or beings associated with God, featuring complete moral goodness, righteousness, and spiritual perfection.
    In Christian theology, holy primarily means "set apart" or "other", describing something or someone dedicated exclusively to God. [1, 2]
    The concept breaks down into two core meanings:

    1. The Holiness of God (Transcendence and Purity)
      • Utterly Unique: God is separate from all creation, living in a class of His own with no rivals or equals.
Amen, set apart/separated from the world and unto God. And it does go hand in hand with purity...being a clean/pure/sanctified vessel. A prepared vessel in other words...prepared as a Bride. Before the Sabbath day of rest was a day of Preparation.
 

GodsGrace

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Perhaps compassion is empathy sanctified.....I'm not sure. Can you explain how the two differ?
Compassion is feeling sorry for another person.
We can understand, to some degree (we never understand fully what another person is experiencing) what they must be feeling in the situation they're in. I think it would be what spurs us on to be of some help,,,if we could be.

Empathy is different.
Empathy puts you in the emotional situation of the other person..you emotionally feel what they feel,,,not just understand it in some mental way.

Happily a person that feels this empathy will not experience it at every situation or life would be unbearable because it affects the person at deep levels that could even cause some depression.

Dictionaries must surely explain the difference.
It would be good to know...I certainly will not be changing our vocabulary.
 

MostlyConfused

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You are just employing the usual tactic of the crowd that follows this man wherever he goes to argue with him and set nets to try and catch him in them. He’s supposed to see a brother or sister in need of tearing him down and shooting like a not so covert sniper at him from the shadows and just let himself be beat up to supply their “need” and make them feel in control or soothed or make them feel good? That’s exactly how my parent and family was. What passed for love was setting yourself on fire to keep them warm, cozy and in their soothing fictions and delusions. Talk about suicidal empathy!
Truly, if Jesus were on earth now in human form, you would be talking the same about Him when he rebuked and corrected the Pharisees, saying he had no empathy!
And one more thing. This is an exact example of the useless conversation/useless way of life we were taught by our fathers and society. It IS that guile we were taught to move in, that form of attack that is covert and
”passive” that protects you from anyone being able to SAY you have attacked them. It is a veneer of politeness or manners that covers over murdering someone in your heart. And when a man speaks upfrontly and honestly, he is hated because he doesn’t play by these useless ”rules” of politeness. He is thought to use unnecessary roughness by being upfront instead of passive in his shot back.
 

GodsGrace

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You just didn’t recognize any of the verses I have alluded to because I used different wording.
A holy man, as you claim to be, would have recognized them.
Well, actually, I'm a girl the last time I checked.
And yes, I claim to be holy...using the correct definition of course...
NOT yours.

As to alluding to verses....
When I become a mind reader,,,I will be able to know to which verses you are alluding...

For now,,,it would be a good idea to actually post them.
 

MostlyConfused

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Well, actually, I'm a girl the last time I checked.
And yes, I claim to be holy...using the correct definition of course...
NOT yours.

As to alluding to verses....
When I become a mind reader,,,I will be able to know to which verses you are alluding...

For now,,,it would be a good idea to actually post them.
No, I won’t.