Parable of the minas

[grafted branch]

It would be appreciated if servants of God would make some effort to spread the gospel, lots of ways to do this.

I agree. The parable of the minas is told in the Gospel of Luke and it’s important else it wouldn’t have been included.

What are your thoughts on that parable? How should it be understood?

 

[Jay Ross]

It would be appreciated if servants of God would make some effort to spread the gospel, lots of ways to do this.

But that is not the point Jesus was making in the Parables of the Minas or Talents.

 

[William Barton]

I agree. The parable of the minas is told in the Gospel of Luke and it’s important else it wouldn’t have been included.

What are your thoughts on that parable? How should it be understood?

The mandates in the New Testament are clear. One of them is this:
"Go into all nations and make disciples, baptizing them, and teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you."

"Observe all things" would include spreading a BIBLICAL understanding of end-times events.

 

[grafted branch]

The mandates in the New Testament are clear. One of them is this:
"Go into all nations and make disciples, baptizing them, and teaching them to observe all things I have commanded you."

"Observe all things" would include spreading a BIBLICAL understanding of end-times events.

Ok, I have no issues with what you’re saying, how are you interpreting the parable of the minas? Why does it seem like there will be more cities than there are servants?

 

[Davidpt]

In Luke 19:11-27 we have the parable of the minas, this parable is told because they thought the kingdom of God should immediately appear. In the parable there are ten servants, we know the fate of three of them which takes place after He receives the kingdom and returns. One gets ten cities, one gets five cities, and the other it isn’t clear but based on what the other two were given, presumably that servant would’ve received a city if they were faithful and not wicked.

So out of ten servants total, it’s known that fifteen cities were given out and reasonably, at a bare minimum, there were twenty three cities total for the ten servants based on the assumption of at least one city per servant. That’s a minimum of 2.3 cities for every faith servant to have authority over, it could be much higher.

The fate of those who didn’t want Him to reign over them is that they are slain in verse 27, that leaves only the faithful and unfaithful servants that are left. We end up with more cities to have authority over than there are people. What’s going on here?

We know that in the regeneration those that followed Him will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes. Could it be that in the parable of the minas the servants refer to the apostles only and not the true believers in general? If so that leaves the issue of ten servants and twelve apostles.

Or do the faithful servants have authority over cities that contain those who didn’t want Him to reign over them and they then use that authority to “bring them hither and slay them before me”?

Since you have a Preterist mindset, when are you assuming it is meaning when He returns after having received the kingdom? He returns from where and when? Maybe you already addressed this later in the thread? As of now, I don't recall having seen this thread in the past, and that I have only read the OP thus far.

 

[grafted branch]

Since you have a Preterist mindset, when are you assuming it is meaning when He returns after having received the kingdom? He returns from where and when? Maybe you already addressed this later in the thread? As of now, I don't recall having seen this thread in the past, and that I have only read the OP thus far.

I’m not fully convinced of the where and when His return is in this parable but it could’ve happened just after the cross. Here’s the verses that might suggest that …


Luke 19:15 then he commanded these servants to be called unto him.

Matthew 28:7And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.



Luke 19:17 have thou authority over ten cities.

John 20:21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace beunto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; andwhose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.



Luke 19:13And he called his ten servants,

John 20:24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

Obviously Judas was already dead and Mathias was not yet an apostle, making ten servants.



All the other details linking the 10 apostles/servants to the Luke 19:11-27 parable were not recorded.

John 21:25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.



John had seven cities which were the seven churches in Revelation.

 

[Davidpt]

I’m not fully convinced of the where and when His return is in this parable but it could’ve happened just after the cross. Here’s the verses that might suggest that …


Luke 19:15 then he commanded these servants to be called unto him.

Matthew 28:7And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.



Luke 19:17 have thou authority over ten cities.

John 20:21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace beunto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; andwhose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.



Luke 19:13And he called his ten servants,

John 20:24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

Obviously Judas was already dead and Mathias was not yet an apostle, making ten servants.



All the other details linking the 10 apostles/servants to the Luke 19:11-27 parable were not recorded.

John 21:25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.



John had seven cities which were the seven churches in Revelation.

In the event you might be onto something here, none of those things you mentioned that might explain the when and where would have crossed my mind in a million years. Why would that be the case in the event you might be right about these things? You would think if it explains it, it would have at least crossed my mind even if I rejected it. Except it never crossed my mind one single time. Therefore, when He returns per the 2nd coming in the end of this age is the only logical thing that can explain the 'when'. But then how does one get that to fit with a position, such as Amil? In light of 1 Cor 15:24-28. That when God is all in all, and whatever this authority looks like, they maintain this authority forever?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In the event you might be onto something here, none of those things you mentioned that might explain the when and where would have crossed my mind in a million years. Why would that be the case in the event you might be right about these things? You would think if it explains it, it would have at least crossed my mind even if I rejected it. Except it never crossed my mind one single time. Therefore, when He returns per the 2nd coming in the end of this age is the only logical thing that can explain the 'when'. But then how does one get that to fit with a position, such as Amil? In light of 1 Cor 15:24-28. That when God is all in all, and whatever this authority looks like, they maintain this authority forever?

Yes, they will maintain that authority forever. Why not? It seems that the only reason you would question that is by taking the parable literally and thinking that it's talking about believers literally being given authority over temporal cities when Jesus returns, but that's not what the parable is teaching. It's a parable. Jesus used fictional things in His parables to illustrate real things. So, the servants and the cities in the parable are not referring to any particular literal servants or cities. Those fictional servants being given authority over fictional cities figuratively represent the fact that believers will be receiving rewards of some kind when Jesus returns and the level or amount of rewards will depend on how faithful we were with what God has given us.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

In Luke 19:11-27 we have the parable of the minas, this parable is told because they thought the kingdom of God should immediately appear. In the parable there are ten servants, we know the fate of three of them which takes place after He receives the kingdom and returns. One gets ten cities, one gets five cities, and the other it isn’t clear but based on what the other two were given, presumably that servant would’ve received a city if they were faithful and not wicked.

So out of ten servants total, it’s known that fifteen cities were given out and reasonably, at a bare minimum, there were twenty three cities total for the ten servants based on the assumption of at least one city per servant. That’s a minimum of 2.3 cities for every faith servant to have authority over, it could be much higher.

The fate of those who didn’t want Him to reign over them is that they are slain in verse 27, that leaves only the faithful and unfaithful servants that are left. We end up with more cities to have authority over than there are people. What’s going on here?

Jesus did not mention how many people live in each fictional city in his parable, so how are you coming to the conclusion that there are more cities to have authority over than people? There's no basis for that claim since there is no indication of how many people live in each city.

Regardless, it's not talking about anyone literally being given authority over literal cities, as you seem to think. It's a parable. In Jesus's parables He made up fictional things that illustrated real things. The parable is not talking about any particular servants nor about any particular literal cities. So, in that parable, Jesus was illustrating that believers will be given rewards of some kind when He returns and the amount of rewards will depend on how well people used the talents/gifts/abilities that were given to them by God.

We know that in the regeneration those that followed Him will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes. Could it be that in the parable of the minas the servants refer to the apostles only and not the true believers in general? If so that leaves the issue of ten servants and twelve apostles.

No, there is no indication of that. Jesus was talking about believers in general receiving rewards when He returns in the future. He didn't say what exactly those rewards will be. Those rewards are figuratively represented in the fictional parable by authority over cities. We don't yet know what rewards we will actually receive when He returns.

Or do the faithful servants have authority over cities that contain those who didn’t want Him to reign over them and they then use that authority to “bring them hither and slay them before me”?

Again, it's a parable. There's no reason to try to figure things like that out. What the parable illustrates is that believers will receive various levels of rewards of some kind when Jesus returns while unbelievers will be punished.

 

[William Barton]

Ok, I have no issues with what you’re saying, how are you interpreting the parable of the minas? Why does it seem like there will be more cities than there are servants?

The three servants (Luke 19:11-27) were given money to invest.

Likewise we all have been given an earth to live on, with arable soil, oxygen atmosphere, protective ozone layer above, water, plants, animals, sun for warmth, planets and stars for guidance at night.

We did not create all this, it was given to us. Hence each of us will give an account to God, and be rewarded for whatever we did right with these "minas" we have all been given

No condemnation for believers, Jesus paid our penalty for us (Romans 8:1).

 

[Episkopos]

In Luke 19:11-27 we have the parable of the minas, this parable is told because they thought the kingdom of God should immediately appear. In the parable there are ten servants, we know the fate of three of them which takes place after He receives the kingdom and returns. One gets ten cities, one gets five cities, and the other it isn’t clear but based on what the other two were given, presumably that servant would’ve received a city if they were faithful and not wicked.

So out of ten servants total, it’s known that fifteen cities were given out and reasonably, at a bare minimum, there were twenty three cities total for the ten servants based on the assumption of at least one city per servant. That’s a minimum of 2.3 cities for every faith servant to have authority over, it could be much higher.

The fate of those who didn’t want Him to reign over them is that they are slain in verse 27, that leaves only the faithful and unfaithful servants that are left. We end up with more cities to have authority over than there are people. What’s going on here?

We know that in the regeneration those that followed Him will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes. Could it be that in the parable of the minas the servants refer to the apostles only and not the true believers in general? If so that leaves the issue of ten servants and twelve apostles.

Or do the faithful servants have authority over cities that contain those who didn’t want Him to reign over them and they then use that authority to “bring them hither and slay them before me”?

The saints rule over the righteous of the nations in the next age.

 

[Jay Ross]

Oh! How sad it is that people are still not understanding the Parables of the Talents and the Minas.

In the Parable of the Minas, Jesus, at the beginning, hints at the time when the Nation of Israel we repent of their turning away from God and as such Jesus speaks of the Israelite servants of Satan sending a delegation after Satan goes away to get a kingdom that they no longer want Satan to rule over them. Jesus also hints at the action of Satan after he returns with his claimed kingdom that Satan will want to destroy the Israelites because they turned away from Him while he was gone and demands that these "wicked servants of his," be killed before him. John in Rev 12 tells us this same story of Satan wanting to destroy Israel.

If we are looking forward as "Saints" of Christ to being given cities to rule over, then we have missed the point that Jesus demonstrated that as His Saints, we should humble ourselves and become like a servant and not desire to lord it over others.

Our understanding has clouded what Jesus taught in these two parables, where Satan has been replaced as the main character in the Parables by Christ and the "Good and Faithful Servants" of the man who goes away with "God's saints." who want to evangelize others through the use of money.

Oh Well! Such is life when we, the Saints do not eyes to see or ears to hears.

Shalom

 

[grafted branch]

In the event you might be onto something here, none of those things you mentioned that might explain the when and where would have crossed my mind in a million years. Why would that be the case in the event you might be right about these things? You would think if it explains it, it would have at least crossed my mind even if I rejected it. Except it never crossed my mind one single time. Therefore, when He returns per the 2nd coming in the end of this age is the only logical thing that can explain the 'when'. But then how does one get that to fit with a position, such as Amil? In light of 1 Cor 15:24-28. That when God is all in all, and whatever this authority looks like, they maintain this authority forever?

There might be a way the parable fits the Premill view. If you were to say the cities are given out at the beginning of the millennium, they would be empty cities, devoid of people. As the millennium progresses the cities would fill up and those that initially got the cities would maintain authority over them and over the people in them.

One thing for sure, people like @Spiritual Israel have to try to water down the parable to make it work for them.

 

[grafted branch]

Jesus did not mention how many people live in each fictional city in his parable, so how are you coming to the conclusion that there are more cities to have authority over than people? There's no basis for that claim since there is no indication of how many people live in each city

Did you even read the OP? When the cities are given out in the parable there are more cities than there are servants. Read the parable again.

Regardless, it's not talking about anyone literally being given authority over literal cities, as you seem to think. It's a parable. In Jesus's parables He made up fictional things that illustrated real things. The parable is not talking about any particular servants nor about any particular literal cities. So, in that parable, Jesus was illustrating that believers will be given rewards of some kind when He returns and the amount of rewards will depend on how well people used the talents/gifts/abilities that were given to them by God.

So you think the parable uses having authority over cities even though the meaning of the parable has nothing to do with having authority over other individuals?

No, there is no indication of that. Jesus was talking about believers in general receiving rewards when He returns in the future. He didn't say what exactly those rewards will be. Those rewards are figuratively represented in the fictional parable by authority over cities. We don't yet know what rewards we will actually receive when He returns.

There is indication of that you just seem to always reject anything that doesn’t fit your agenda. If Jesus was talking about believers in general then there are more cities being given out in the parable than there are believers. I get it that you have to appeal to things like we don’t know what rewards will be received but there are other explanations. I think the problem is it doesn’t fit your Amill view and that is something you seem to want to dearly hold onto no matter what.

Again, it's a parable. There's no reason to try to figure things like that out. What the parable illustrates is that believers will receive various levels of rewards of some kind when Jesus returns while unbelievers will be punished.

Sure, but you’re ignoring the obvious, cities are used in the parable, which means having authority over others.

 

[grafted branch]

The saints rule over the righteous of the nations in the next age.

What would be the difference between saints and the righteous? Are you associating the saints with those judging the 12 tribes in Matthew 19:28?

 

[grafted branch]

Oh! How sad it is that people are still not understanding the Parables of the Talents and the Minas.

In the Parable of the Minas, Jesus, at the beginning, hints at the time when the Nation of Israel we repent of their turning away from God and as such Jesus speaks of the Israelite servants of Satan sending a delegation after Satan goes away to get a kingdom that they no longer want Satan to rule over them. Jesus also hints at the action of Satan after he returns with his claimed kingdom that Satan will want to destroy the Israelites because they turned away from Him while he was gone and demands that these "wicked servants of his," be killed before him. John in Rev 12 tells us this same story of Satan wanting to destroy Israel.

If we are looking forward as "Saints" of Christ to being given cities to rule over, then we have missed the point that Jesus demonstrated that as His Saints, we should humble ourselves and become like a servant and not desire to lord it over others.

Our understanding has clouded what Jesus taught in these two parables, where Satan has been replaced as the main character in the Parables by Christ and the "Good and Faithful Servants" of the man who goes away with "God's saints." who want to evangelize others through the use of money.

Oh Well! Such is life when we, the Saints do not eyes to see or ears to hears.

Shalom

So who do you see handing out the cities, Christ or Satan?

 

[William Barton]

Minas.

I see that one webpage notes that the Ancient Greek μνα (mina) was a standard unit of weight and a major unit of "currency" (not a "city").

 

[Davidpt]

There might be a way the parable fits the Premill view. If you were to say the cities are given out at the beginning of the millennium, they would be empty cities, devoid of people. As the millennium progresses the cities would fill up and those that initially got the cities would maintain authority over them and over the people in them.

One thing for sure, people like @Spiritual Israel have to try to water down the parable to make it work for them.

One thing Premil does solve that Amil doesn't, is that this authority, whatever it might look like, can't get fulfilled in a single day, nor does it make sense to still be exercising this authority for ever once God is all in all. IMO, this authority fits a reigning with Christ theme. Except we can't apply it to the here and now spiritually, the fact the return after receiving the kingdom has not occurred yet. And that it is after He returns that He gives faithful servants this authority over something. Granted, per Amil chronology appears to be an illusion in a lot of cases, so maybe not every case. But how can there not be chronology involving going away to receive a kingdom for Himself, then returning after receiving it?

Returning to where, though? Some Amils have the entire planet engulfed in flames at the time. And we know for a fact nothing in the parable can be meaning post the GWTJ, the fact the parable still has death taking place after He returns.

 

[grafted branch]

@William Barton
That’s not my quote about the webpage notes on the mina, but I would agree with it nonetheless.

Luke 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

cities <4172> πόλις a town (properly, with walls, of greater or less size)
The noun πόλις appears one hundred sixty-five times across twenty-four New Testament books. It is found most frequently in the historical narratives of the Gospels (especially Luke) and Acts, then in Hebrews, Revelation, and a handful of Pauline and General Epistles. Whether describing literal municipalities (Nazareth, Philippi, Corinth) or eschatological realities (the New Jerusalem, the great city Babylon), the term always denotes an identifiable community with social, political, and spiritual implications.

The good servants were given cities. Do you have an explanation of why there were more cities given out than there were servants?

 

[William Barton]

Ok, I have no issues with what you’re saying, how are you interpreting the parable of the minas? Why does it seem like there will be more cities than there are servants?

A mina (Greek μινα) was a Greek unit of currency and weight..