Did Jesus return around 70 AD?

[SeekTruth]

Sounds like you are referring to Babylon, not Jerusalem. End times Babylon is a symbolic city and woman which are those who worship the false god in the trib. It's essentially the counterfeit of the bride of Christ.

Babylon is not a future city. Babylon was a city that already existed in first century. How else could she killed Jesus and the prophets. The New Testament says Jerusalem was Babylon.

 

[SeekTruth]

Why didn't Jesus rapture and change into immortal the saints like John? John died over 20 years later. If there was no rapture, and no resurrection of the saved dead then Jesus did not return in the past.

The second coming changes everything in this world so it's obvious he did not come yet. It's no different than someone saying we live on the new Earth found in Rev 21-22 and that we are immortals etc.

You dont know when John died. Dont use the testimony of no new testament Christians like for example the Church Fathers because they are often wrong.

 

[SeekTruth]

No, physical city Jerusalem was never Babylon.



Show us chapter and verse to prove this.



The conclusions I am seeing everywhere coming out of your mouth is that you are wrong with your assumption. You have not yet offer a single verse to support your claim.

Jerusalem was Babylon. No doubt about this. I have many proofs.

 

[ewq1938]

Babylon is not a future city. Babylon was a city that already existed in first century.

Babylon in Rev is a symbolic city comprised of those who worship the AC.

How else could she killed Jesus and the prophets.

Babylon the city of the past did not kill them.

The New Testament says Jerusalem was Babylon.

No, it doesn't. It speaks of them as separate cities.

 

[ewq1938]

You dont know when John died.

Historians know the approximate time he died. The fact he did die proves Jesus did not return in the 1st century.

 

[SeekTruth]

Babylon in Rev is a symbolic city comprised of those who worship the AC.




Babylon the city of the past did not kill them.




No, it doesn't. It speaks of them as separate cities.

Book Of Revelation states that Babylon already existed in first century. Revelation states that she murdered Christ and the prophets. She must have already existed in 1st century and even before. Only Jerusalem fits.

 

[SeekTruth]

Historians know the approximate time he died. The fact he did die proves Jesus did not return in the 1st century.

No, historians dont know it. They are referring to Irenaeus. Whether his report is reliable is disputed.

 

[ewq1938]

Book Of Revelation states that Babylon already existed in first century.

Existed long before that.

Revelation states that she murdered Christ and the prophets.

What verse?

She must have already existed in 1st century and even before. Only Jerusalem fits.

Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

So Jerusalem hasn't existed and does not exist today? Really?


Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

So no voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be and the sound of a millstone and the light of a candle haven't been in Jerusalem since 70AD?

 

[SeekTruth]

Existed long before that.



What verse?



Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

So Jerusalem hasn't existed and does not exist today? Really?


Rev 18:22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
Rev 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

So no voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be and the sound of a millstone and the light of a candle haven't been in Jerusalem since 70AD?

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

There are many other proofs that Jerusalem was Babylon.

 

[TribulationSigns]

I already did, it’s common sense. God is not the author of confusion.

The Bible doesn’t specifically say to use common sense, that verse isn’t in the Bible. Are you now going to argue that we shouldn’t use common sense because it isn’t Biblical and no interpretation needs to make sense?

Oh brother... you are answering a question I never asked. I did not ask whether we should use common sense or whether interpretations should make sense. I asked you to support your specific claim that comparing Scripture with Scripture applies to doctrine but excludes prophetic fulfillment.

Citing “God is not the author of confusion” does not establish that distinction. Where does that passage teach the restriction you are placing on interpreting prophecy? Simply calling your position “common sense” does not make it a biblical rule. Selah!

If you cannot provide a passage that teaches or necessarily establishes that distinction, then acknowledge it as your assumption, rather than presenting it as Scripture’s prescribed method. The question remains unanswered. Deal with it!

 

[TribulationSigns]

Jerusalem was Babylon. No doubt about this. I have many proofs.

“Many proofs,” yet apparently none made it into your post. How convenient.

Present the chapters and verses, explain their context, and demonstrate from Scripture why Babylon must mean Jerusalem. Saying “no doubt about this” tells us how confident you are; it does nothing to establish that you are correct.

You have announced your conclusion. Now supply the argument. Confidence is not exegesis.

Selah!

 

[ewq1938]

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

There are many other proofs that Jerusalem was Babylon.

Zero proofs. I have already presented the fact that when Babylon is burned in Rev, it cannot ever exist again yet Jerusalem was rebuilt and exists today. Rev also describes Babylon as a port city which Jerusalem is not. How about you comment on those proofs?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jerusalem was Babylon. No doubt about this. I have many proofs.

No doubt you are wrong. Tell me how Jerusalem ever reigned over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Tell me how Jerusalem was "a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird!" (Revelation 18:2). Tell me how "all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her" (Revelation 18:3). The waters upon which the harlot Babylon sites represent "peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues" (Rev 17:1,15). How does that apply to Jerusalem?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.

There are many other proofs that Jerusalem was Babylon.

Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem. Try again.

John 19:20 Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city; and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.

Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate.

Babylon was not first century Jerusalem. It is the spiritual opposite of the New Jerusalem. It is a global entity. All unbelievers are citizens of Babylon spiritually while all believers are citizens of New Jerusalem spiritually (Galatians 4:26, Hebrews 12:22).

 

[Davidpt]

No doubt you are wrong. Tell me how Jerusalem ever reigned over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18). Tell me how Jerusalem was "a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird!" (Revelation 18:2). Tell me how "all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her" (Revelation 18:3). The waters upon which the harlot Babylon sites represent "peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues" (Rev 17:1,15). How does that apply to Jerusalem?

Why can't that mean the old Jerusaem then? But not in a literal sense. And certainly not involving literal Jerusalem in the first century. In order for the NJ to make sense in the future, the old Jerusalem has to be found no more at all.


Revelation 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

You have read Ezekiel 16 before, right?

Ezekiel 16:1 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
Ezekiel 16:13 Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.