The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[Marvelloustime]

it can be easy to misunderstand or misjudge what one means on the internet especially .
THIS is why rather than accusing the warner
we should always ask them questions first .
So if you do have any questions , or pehaps something i am saying seems off to you ,
YOU ask me to explain it .
And meanwhile i give us all this advice as well .
LETS G ET ourselves back into daily bible reading for ourselves .
YOU , my friend , would marvel at just how quickly things can be cleared up .
Its true that many are going to hate the message and correction we bring .
Beause many love their sin and the image of a god that serves and accepts such sin .
BUT its also true that its time we start asking questions .
So if anything i have written has either not been clear or etc
START asking me to explain . I will also do the same . The faster we get this cleared up
the better .
Because when i warn us all that satan has overtaken many churches , i am not kidding at all .
Ecumeincalsim in clusivsim intefaith IS of the dark one
but claoked to sound as if it is of GOD and is love and is his plan for peace .
Now if you have any questoins a bout that , start asking and i will do my best to explain .

@amigo de christo

 

[rebuilder 454]

I very much agree.

Jesus said before the flood there is normal life, marriage, commerce, and everyday life.
...and half of a group taken in that timeframe and setting.
No matter how you slice it, Jesus said his coming is pretrib.

Your job at that point is to convince yourself that Jesus is mistaken, as davidpt has directed people to believe.

 

[Davidpt]

What did paul say GOD would send . A strong delusion .
And who does this lying spirit that was allowed to be sent by GOD go too .
UPON all who had rejected the love of the truth whereby they may be saved .
Now this LIE they will beleive is for their damnation .
Now lets back the truck up to the first letter .
What did paul say They would be saying right before their own sudden destruction came raining down upon them all
and they would not escape .
PEACE N SAFETY .
So now tell me . DO YOU SEE a delusion occuring right now .
That is causing many to now merge under a lie . OH you DO S ISTER . you might not know what i am yet talking about
BUT I BET YOU SEEN IT TOO sister .
What one event has come upon them . and when i say them
I MEAN the false religoins as well as a lot of christendom .
What do you see sister .
More and more leaders of christendom , from protesatant to RCC and greek or thodox ande etc
are now joining hands also with hindus , buddists , unbelievig jews , muslims .
AND what are they all chanting GOD IS LOVE
and what are they all saying , WE ALL SERVE THE SAME GOD .
THERE IT IS . JESUS has obviously been denied , HIS GOSPEL HAS , thus that means HE HAS .
And now they all are chanting
HEY we all serve the same GOD . and all relgions are coming to the same GOD .
That all religoins serve the same GOD we christains do .
SO WE SEE THE LIE . BUT here is the kicker .
WHAT DO THEY BELIEVE . THEY cry aloud and they say
WE must come together as one , we all serve the same GOD
and we must find common ground f or .............................................
and WOE WOE WOE t hey do BELEIVE this is the means by how to attain .................................................
What is it sister . what it is that they BELIEVE , that those who BELIVE THE LIE THAT WE ALL SERVE
the same GOD , beleive . That this is GODS PLAN .
HIS plan for what s ister .
WHAT IS IT they beleive they can attain by this coming together as one . PEACE N SA FETY .
AND THERE IT IS SISTER for all to see .
THE STRONG DELUISOIN IS HERE SISTER . ITS HERE and they bleive it will usher them PEACE N SAFETY .
It aint coming sister , ITS HERE and its only growing now .

I don't know if we are on the same page here or not. If we are on the same page the following would be adding to what you said, not challenging it instead.

You don't send strong delusion to someone already deceived, in order for them to believe a lie. You send strong delusion to someone no longer deceived, in order for them to believe a lie.

In context this strong delusion is involving the great falling away in verse 3. In context all of the lost in general are not meant here. In context professed believers are meant here and that some fall away, thus buy into the strong delusion, thus believe the lie.

 

[Marvelloustime]

me too sister . and g uess what else .
Not only is that delusion here .
I want us to go and examine something else .
GO to and behold exactly what this AI LED , image speaking led , digital system can do .
CUT OUT all buying and selling for those who CONFORM NOT .
but look ag ain and ye shall see something else
about this AI image speaking system .
AI can see anything typed ,written , hear what is spoken over a phone .
And is connected into camera survelliance systems .
So what can this AI do you might be wondering .
Well once enforced , and soon it will be ,
IF say you and i are typing on a computer
or maybe talking on the phone
WHEN key words are said , or typed
they can be routed instantly to a data base that routes them instantly
to the nearest police station .
So we have our chat . We hang all . all seems well .
TILL you hear
a rapping at your chamber door
and i will hear it too in my own town .
AND it aint gonna be a raven a rapping and a tapping on our chamber door .
THOUGH they will be d ressed in black as a raven and be holding a bull horn
saying COME OUT ye have been determined and deemed a potential terroist
and off to a camp you go
and off to a camp i go .
AND NOW A WORD .
And he giveth life unto the image of the beast so that it can SPEAK
and CAUSE those who did not worship the image to b e KILLED .
AI can DO THIS . it can route anything we will say or type and cause
our arrest and dentention .
AND keep reading revleation thirteen .
cause it also sits over
A DIGITAL system . And he cuases all both small and great , poor and rich
to receive a mark in their forhead or hand
and that no ONE might buy OR SELL save HE WHO has the mark .
ITS HERE AREADY , JUST LIKE THE STRONG DELUSION IS ALREADY here sister .
And its about to go from the ecuemincal phase of , OH LETS JUST bE ONE
to the crusades of CONFORM OR DIE . its coming sister . ITS AT the door . the hour of our betrayal is at the door .

@amigo de christo

 

[Davidpt]

Jesus said before the flood there is normal life, marriage, commerce, and everyday life.
...and half of a group taken in that timeframe and setting.
No matter how you slice it, Jesus said his coming is pretrib.

Your job at that point is to convince yourself that Jesus is mistaken, as davidpt has directed people to believe.

And you have debunked what I submitted---exactly where and in what post?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Sorry if my post is a bit lengthy. I don't like to discuss things with one liners like you typically do. I like to see how someone is reasoning through something, such as I am here. But that's me. Not everyone is me, I guess.


The ones worshiping the beast aren't experiencing great tribulation in the same manner as those refusing to worship it. Look at Revelation 13. That is meaning great tribulation.

Does any of the following sound like they are experiencing great tribulation in the manner you think they are?

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Revelation 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Even though I didn't include verse 7, but look at verse 7 and then verse 15---And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them---and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Are those things also happening to those worshiping the beast during great tribulation? No! In comparison, those worshiping the beast, life goes on as usual. And verse 17, for another, proves it. They can still buy and sell, the ones not worshiping the beast can't. But you want us to believe nonsense, that great tribulation is affecting everyone on the earth in the same manner.

When 1 Thessalonians 5:3 is meaning---in regard to saying peace and safety, it is meaning when they are worshiping the beast during it's 42 month reign. It is when they can freely buy and sell but those refusing to worship it can't. Pretribbers, just like Preterists, conflate great tribulation with the wrath of God and judgment.

The wrath of God is not being poured out during great tribulation. That is absurd. As if it makes sense, that during the wrath of God would they then be saying this--Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

If the wrath of God does not involve making war with the beast, then I give up. Once again, this---Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?---undeniably proves that the wrath of God is not underway at the time. The wrath of God doesn't begin until the 7th trumpet. The reign of the beast is during the 6th trumpet.

Let's go this route for a moment then.

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.


This for certain would describe something that can fit saying peace and safety, in comparison with--because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth

But look where Pretrib has these events taking place in their timeline. Not before 1 Thess 5:3 is meaning, but after it is meaning and that the church is no longer on the planet.

1) only half the church is rapturedvpretrib as Jesus taught in mat 24 and mat 25.
2) gather all of the verses of rev 13 describing the AC killing all the saints not in the book, not just those verses that you can bend.

 

[Sel@h]

@amigo de christo

Matthew 24:27-31 (KJV) 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The term "eagles" should be interpreted as "vultures." The carcasses represent those who are spiritually dead, and these vultures of Satan (the Antichrist) will prey upon every spiritually dead person on earth.

 

[rebuilder 454]

And you have debunked what I submitted---exactly where and in what post?

Jesus said before the flood there is normal life, marriage, commerce, and everyday life.
...and half of a group taken in that timeframe and setting.
No matter how you slice it, Jesus said his coming is pretrib.

Show me how Jesus is mistaken.
That is your job.

 

[rebuilder 454]

@amigo de christo

Matthew 24:27-31 (KJV) 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The term "eagles" should be interpreted as "vultures." The carcasses represent those who are spiritually dead, and these vultures of Satan (the Antichrist) will prey upon every spiritually dead person on earth.

Vultures feeding on dead bodies is in the last few books of Revelation.
They died fighting in the AC army.
Ahem.....That is post 7yr trib and before the millennium.

The "ones taken" of Matthew 24 are TAKEN PREFLOOD.
How can anyone get that confused????

That postrib doctrine has so many backward assumptions it is crazy trying to get you guys out of all those doctrinal traps.

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus said before the flood there is normal life, marriage, commerce, and everyday life.
...and half of a group taken in that timeframe and setting.
No matter how you slice it, Jesus said his coming is pretrib.

Your job at that point is to convince yourself that Jesus is mistaken, as davidpt has directed people to believe.

you be twisting things to fit pre t rib .
Long long before many christians were put to death for JESUS sake .
And yet you wanna believe this last so called generation wont have to face
THE VERY triublations appointed UNTO THE CHURCH .
Preachers , well a few of the chinese ones , would weep for you now .
HEY they sold their churches the same line you all now sell us .
DONT worry , before it gets bad JESUS will come for us .
Years later a couple of preachers who had sold pre trib
unto their chinese churches were weeping like a child as they now gave
their confession and repentance s tory ..
THEY had once taught their own chinese churches , HEY you have nothing to worry about
God wont allow warth upon you , HE GONNA rapture you up before it gets bad .
YEARS later these much older chinese pastors wept
as they recorded a live message for all to see .
And here is their story .
WHEN the communists came and times got bad
THE PEOPLES were confused and many thought God had abandoned them
Because we had not prepared them for perseuctoin but have told them not to worry .
THOSE GROWN MEN WEPT like b abies .
THEY said many sold out , many blamed God for our mistake , for our preaching of pre trib .
THose older men were weeping when they gave this tesitmony .
WELL AT LEAST they repented . YOU and yalls pre trib is gonna sell this flocks to anti christ . TO ANTI CHRIST .
Now get them out of anything ecumeincal incliusvie interafith
and that anti christ peace
AND start reminding them and preparing them FOR great PERSEUCTION . and to be faithful even unto the death
no ma tter the cost .

 

[Marvelloustime]

you be twisting things to fit pre t rib .
Long long before many christians were put to death for JESUS sake .
And yet you wanna believe this last so called generation wont have to face
THE VERY triublations appointed UNTO THE CHURCH .
Preachers , well a few of the chinese ones , would weep for you now .
HEY they sold their churches the same line you all now sell us .
DONT worry , before it gets bad JESUS will come for us .
Years later a couple of preachers who had sold pre trib
unto their chinese churches were weeping like a child as they now gave
their confession and repentance s tory ..
THEY had once taught their own chinese churches , HEY you have nothing to worry about
God wont allow warth upon you , HE GONNA rapture you up before it gets bad .
YEARS later these much older chinese pastors wept
as they recorded a live message for all to see .
And here is their story .
WHEN the communists came and times got bad
THE PEOPLES were confused and many thought God had abandoned them
Because we had not prepared them for perseuctoin but have told them not to worry .
THOSE GROWN MEN WEPT like b abies .
THEY said many sold out , many blamed God for our mistake , for our preaching of pre trib .
THose older men were weeping when they gave this tesitmony .
WELL AT LEAST they repented . YOU and yalls pre trib is gonna sell this flocks to anti christ . TO ANTI CHRIST .
Now get them out of anything ecumeincal incliusvie interafith
and that anti christ peace
AND start reminding them and preparing them FOR great PERSEUCTION . and to be faithful even unto the death
no ma tter the cost .

@amigo de christo

 

[Marvelloustime]

And now a word .
And this word is a general reminder to all .
it will be a cold day in the lake of fire long before i follow or heed inclusion or its delusion .
And you might wanna ask , before just condeming me , why i made such a statement .
You would marvel and marvel indeed
if you knew that not only can satan say God is love , not only can satan himself
seem lov ing and seem as though he is pro humanity and for its good .
Not only can satan say judge not God is l ove ,
BUDDY he has millions to bilions of co workers who now sell this inclusvie love of his
and of his ecumeincal harlot to many .
The delusion of inclusion is massive . And oh yeah satan can say GOD is love and judge not
BUT boy does he twist the version of it
into ALLOWING leaven to remain , while silencing the lips of those who expose it with a judge not
and the leaven grows . And while it grows when others come in to warn and to correct
its judge not God is love . ALL IT DID was allow
leaven in and leaven to remain and leaven to grow . till now many love a lie
and are hard core haters and judgers of THE VERY WORDS OF GOD in that bible
that does so expose the very sin and lie they LOVE and even bleieve to be of GOD .
WHEN IT IS ALL of satan masquerading as though he is god and is love . OH he is liar . OH is he a liar .

@amigo de christo

 

[rebuilder 454]

It doesn't matter. All that matters is that it is AFTER the tribulation. Don't jerk it out of context, go back up to verse 29.

Mt 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

It is YOU who has no verses...zero, nada, null

Your one verse, is a verse you guys have never unpacked.

Look what you did to it.
Mat 24
1)After the trib...yes you did get that correct.
2) Jesus sends..oooops, your teachers invert it to "Jesus goes"
3) angels gather...oooops, your teachers are unable to discern something that simple.
4) Saints gathered..yes , Bravo, you got two dynamics correct
5) His elect...wow, your teachers actually got another dynamic correct.
6) in heaven...oooops , your teachers inverted it to "on earth".

So I will give you guys an F at reading comprehension.

Your one and only verse , and your teachers botch a no brainer.

 

[Sel@h]

If you look in Strong's you should note that the Greek word for 'took' in verse 39 is not the same Greek word for 'taken' in verse 40. Which then can mean taken in verse 40 is a good thing, being left is a bad thing. But even so, this hardly implies only a Pretrib rapture. It can work with a Posttrib rapture just as well.

@amigo de christo

Hello guys… Well, we disagree. Here’s my understanding:

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

The "field" represents the world. And as servants of God, we are supposed to be tending the Good Master's vineyard (Matthew 21) until Jesus returns. Many people pray to be taken during the first coming (pretrib), unaware that they are actually praying to be taken by the Antichrist.

The person taken first is taken by the Antichrist. Our calling is to remain working in the field until Jesus returns at the 7th trump (not the 6th trump).

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Again in this verse, the first person taken is deceived by Satan. Again, we’re working for Jesus, following the command to occupy until He returns.

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo

Hello guys… Well, we disagree. Here’s my understanding:

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

The "field" represents the world. And as servants of God, we are supposed to be tending the Good Master's vineyard (Matthew 21) until Jesus returns. Many people pray to be taken during the first coming (pretrib), unaware that they are actually praying to be taken by the Antichrist.

The person taken first is taken by the Antichrist. Our calling is to remain working in the field until Jesus returns at the 7th trump (not the 6th trump).

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Again in this verse, the first person taken is deceived by Satan. Again, we’re working for Jesus, following the command to occupy until He returns.

sister my concern is what did you think
about my comment on the delusion going on right now
as well as what we see in revelation thirteen and the ai digital system .
re read those and lets talk about That mee near and my dear sister . and there is reason i move us into
that dialgoue .

 

[Sel@h]

Jesus said before the flood there is normal life, marriage, commerce, and everyday life.
...and half of a group taken in that timeframe and setting.
No matter how you slice it, Jesus said his coming is pretrib.

Show me how Jesus is mistaken.
That is your job.

Yeah, people will be carrying on, but what is it that was also going on in Noah’s day? The fallen angels were here doing their wicked things. That’s how it’ll be again in these latter days:

Luke 17:26-30 (KJV) 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[ewq1938]

I don't know if we are on the same page here or not. If we are on the same page the following would be adding to what you said, not challenging it instead.

You don't send strong delusion to someone already deceived, in order for them to believe a lie. You send strong delusion to someone no longer deceived, in order for them to believe a lie.

You can delude someone deceived to ensure they stay that way. It's like using twice the tie downs that is needed just to make sure.

 

[Sel@h]

sister my concern is what did you think
about my comment on the delusion going on right now
as well as what we see in revelation thirteen and the ai digital system .
re read those and lets talk about That mee near and my dear sister . and there is reason i move us into
that dialgoue .

Weren’t we discussing about “being taken?”

 

[amigo de christo]

@amigo de christo

Matthew 24:27-31 (KJV) 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The term "eagles" should be interpreted as "vultures." The carcasses represent those who are spiritually dead, and these vultures of Satan (the Antichrist) will prey upon every spiritually dead person on earth.

yes i already know the term eagles was meant as the birds feasting upon the dead bodies . aka we call them vultures .
Se lah . i am very very and very very very concerned
about something else . The st rong delusion . OH its not coming , ITS HERE . ITS HERE
and many see it as love
many believe it to be of GOD
and many even believe its solution for world peace n safety .
SO i must go ahead and
start asking the questions , I KNOW this generation has about zero desire to hear and be asked .
Lets start with A dire warning .
NOW i am gonna give it and if you agree Explain also why you agree
And if you disagree , explain why you do disagree .
HERE IS the warning .
FLEE ANYTHING connected to anything or anyone who supports anything or anyone ecumeincal inclusive and intefaith .
Now lets get down to business . Lets s tart asking and lets start talking .

 

[amigo de christo]

Weren’t we discussing about “being taken?”

Yeah . only the house is on fire .
IF you and i were sitting in a building
and we had went to go hear miss sally and all she had to say about cake b aking .
T ell me
if during that meeting you saw smoke coming down from the roof and coming out f rom under doors
And then i turned to you and said , hey sister i t hink the building is on fire
are you gonna then tell me , HEY brother amigo
the topic is on sallys cake b aking
OR would you say OH MY GOODNESS this house is on fire and it coming down and we gots to warn
them TO GET THE HECK out .
NOW SISTER . You need to hear this
Ecumeinalsim incluisivity has INFILTRATED , and by GOLLY this people has to be warned .