The Case for a Post-Tribulation Second Coming

[amigo de christo]

Weren’t we discussing about “being taken?”

i understand . but what would you say if i told you
that many are already being TAKEN down a road , that if they do not get off it
THEY gonna howl on JESUS day .
SISTER i aint the monster many have made me out to be . I also dont think you think i am such .
BUT WHEN THE BUILDINGS ON FIRE
WE GOTS TO GET THEM OUT of that building . ANd i am telling us
THE DELSUION has infiltrated
and if they DO NOT GET OUT , THEY G OING DOWN .

 

[shepherdsword]

Your one verse, is a verse you guys have never unpacked.

Look what you did to it.
Mat 24
1)After the trib...yes you did get that correct.
2) Jesus sends..oooops, your teachers invert it to "Jesus goes"
3) angels gather...oooops, your teachers are unable to discern something that simple.
4) Saints gathered..yes , Bravo, you got two dynamics correct
5) His elect...wow, your teachers actually got another dynamic correct.
6) in heaven...oooops , your teachers inverted it to "on earth".

So I will give you guys an F at reading comprehension.

Your one and only verse , and your teachers botch a no brainer.

How does Jesus say he will return? Not in some secret rapture like you have claimed.

No mention of a secret rapture here:
Mt 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

No mention of a secret rapture here either
Mt 26:64
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

No mention of a secret rapture here either
1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

No mention of a secret rapture here either
Rv 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

In short, no where does Jesus say He will return in some secret gathering before the second coming. The pretrib rapture is a big mess of goobly gook. It's not in scripture. It's only in the minds of those who have been taught by false teachers.

 

[Sel@h]

What did paul say GOD would send . A strong delusion .
And who does this lying spirit that was allowed to be sent by GOD go too .
UPON all who had rejected the love of the truth whereby they may be saved .
Now this LIE they will beleive is for their damnation .
Now lets back the truck up to the first letter .
What did paul say They would be saying right before their own sudden destruction came raining down upon them all
and they would not escape .
PEACE N SAFETY .
So now tell me . DO YOU SEE a delusion occuring right now .
That is causing many to now merge under a lie . OH you DO S ISTER . you might not know what i am yet talking about
BUT I BET YOU SEEN IT TOO sister .
What one event has come upon them . and when i say them
I MEAN the false religoins as well as a lot of christendom .
What do you see sister .
More and more leaders of christendom , from protesatant to RCC and greek or thodox ande etc
are now joining hands also with hindus , buddists , unbelievig jews , muslims .
AND what are they all chanting GOD IS LOVE
and what are they all saying , WE ALL SERVE THE SAME GOD .
THERE IT IS . JESUS has obviously been denied , HIS GOSPEL HAS , thus that means HE HAS .
And now they all are chanting
HEY we all serve the same GOD . and all relgions are coming to the same GOD .
That all religoins serve the same GOD we christains do .
SO WE SEE THE LIE . BUT here is the kicker .
WHAT DO THEY BELIEVE . THEY cry aloud and they say
WE must come together as one , we all serve the same GOD
and we must find common ground f or .............................................
and WOE WOE WOE t hey do BELEIVE this is the means by how to attain .................................................
What is it sister . what it is that they BELIEVE , that those who BELIVE THE LIE THAT WE ALL SERVE
the same GOD , beleive . That this is GODS PLAN .
HIS plan for what s ister .
WHAT IS IT they beleive they can attain by this coming together as one . PEACE N SA FETY .
AND THERE IT IS SISTER for all to see .
THE STRONG DELUISOIN IS HERE SISTER . ITS HERE and they bleive it will usher them PEACE N SAFETY .
It aint coming sister , ITS HERE and its only growing now .

Absolutely. It’s a wicked one-world system comprised of lies and unity.

 

[Sel@h]

Yeah . only the house is on fire .
IF you and i were sitting in a building
and we had went to go hear miss sally and all she had to say about cake b aking .
T ell me
if during that meeting you saw smoke coming down from the roof and coming out f rom under doors
And then i turned to you and said , hey sister i t hink the building is on fire
are you gonna then tell me , HEY brother amigo
the topic is on sallys cake b aking
OR would you say OH MY GOODNESS this house is on fire and it coming down and we gots to warn
them TO GET THE HECK out .
NOW SISTER . You need to hear this
Ecumeinalsim incluisivity has INFILTRATED , and by GOLLY this people has to be warned .

…but you can’t equate being deceived by the AC as a cake baking, my friend.

 

[amigo de christo]

Absolutely. It’s a wicked one-world system comprised of lies and unity.

And what would you do if i told you its all over the left , the right , the trump and the vance
all over the RCC and most all of even the prostant realm .
What would you do if i told you there is only a remant within even christendom who even knows
the TRUTH anymore .
The false religoins never did
the athiest and agnostic never did .
What would you say if i told you that most within even christendom
have sold the ONE TRUE JESUS out
for a love and a lie claoked as though it was of GOD and even is of Christ .
I been watching this for years sister . for years and it has only gotten much worse .
Many , and a number so high not you and i could count it , within christendom
no longer realizes what it has lost and worse that it is lost
and now follows another god , another jesus and a false love .
That aint hate speech , and it darn sure dont give me pleasure , BUT ONLY SADNESS , to even have to see it .
And forget asking me about the number of the remnant cause on that i have no idea .
The only thing i do know is
I AINT FOUND A MAINSTREAM church one i can sit in at all .
Nor does the internet show me such a one .
We got problems sister . And i aint talking about meats drinks and days and that
I mean we dont even have many left that ev en know and or believe the basic gospel
And if even they claim to believe
the moment i then say to them , SO you are t ellling me
that if an atheist , ag nostic , muslim or any other religoin hears that gospel
and dont beleive in JESUS they are in danger of hell fire
ALL OF A Sudden they even say , NO I WOULD NOT SAY THAT . in fact they believe
that if even atheist , muslim , agnostic or any other religon heard the gospel
and yet beleived not ON JESUS , oh if they at least did good works they gonna be okay .
WHAT A lie . people are double minded sister . they now stagger between belief and unbeleif
PROVING they only belive UNBELIEF .
EITHER WE as children BELIEVE JESUS , or we dont . but it cannot b e both .

 

[amigo de christo]

…but you can’t equate being deceived by the AC as a cake baking, my friend.

thats my point sister .
These people are debating over this and that
AND YET THEY ARE ALL already being led into that direction OF ANTI CHRIST .
we got s to get them back to the basics and NOW .

 

[Sel@h]

And what would you do if i told you its all over the left , the right , the trump and the vance
all over the RCC and most all of even the prostant realm .
What would you do if i told you there is only a remant within even christendom who even knows
the TRUTH anymore .
The false religoins never did
the athiest and agnostic never did .
What would you say if i told you that most within even christendom
have sold the ONE TRUE JESUS out
for a love and a lie claoked as though it was of GOD and even is of Christ .
I been watching this for years sister . for years and it has only gotten much worse .
Many , and a number so high not you and i could count it , within christendom
no longer realizes what it has lost and worse that it is lost
and now follows another god , another jesus and a false love .
That aint hate speech , and it darn sure dont give me pleasure , BUT ONLY SADNESS , to even have to see it .
And forget asking me about the number of the remnant cause on that i have no idea .
The only thing i do know is
I AINT FOUND A MAINSTREAM church one i can sit in at all .
Nor does the internet show me such a one .
We got problems sister . And i aint talking about meats drinks and days and that
I mean we dont even have many left that ev en know and or believe the basic gospel
And if even they claim to believe
the moment i then say to them , SO you are t ellling me
that if an atheist , ag nostic , muslim or any other religoin hears that gospel
and dont beleive in JESUS they are in danger of hell fire
ALL OF A Sudden they even say , NO I WOULD NOT SAY THAT . in fact they believe
that if even atheist , muslim , agnostic or any other religon heard the gospel
and yet beleived not ON JESUS , oh if they at least did good works they gonna be okay .
WHAT A lie . people are double minded sister . they now stagger between belief and unbeleif
PROVING they only belive UNBELIEF .
EITHER WE as children BELIEVE JESUS , or we dont . but it cannot b e both .

Yep, that’s what I’ve been talking about.

 

[amigo de christo]

Yep, that’s what I’ve been talking about.

to the trenches , this is the last hour and to THE CHRIST JESUS of GOD we owe all .
And there will be no false hope thus no false love god being honored nor glorifed by ME . ITS JESUS ONLY sister

 

[ThomasDGW]

And now a word .
And this word is a general reminder to all .
it will be a cold day in the lake of fire long before i follow or heed inclusion or its delusion .
And you might wanna ask , before just condeming me , why i made such a statement .
You would marvel and marvel indeed
if you knew that not only can satan say God is love , not only can satan himself
seem lov ing and seem as though he is pro humanity and for its good .
Not only can satan say judge not God is l ove ,
BUDDY he has millions to bilions of co workers ...

Why would you put in the quote from me when I was not referring to you? I was answering a statement directed to me that a person should not be excluded based on eschatology. The rancor shown on this forum toward those who hold different eschatology would result in exclusion. You are talking about excluding those who love sin, a completely diffrrent matter.

 

[Marvelloustime]

And what would you do if i told you its all over the left , the right , the trump and the vance
all over the RCC and most all of even the prostant realm .
What would you do if i told you there is only a remant within even christendom who even knows
the TRUTH anymore .
The false religoins never did
the athiest and agnostic never did .
What would you say if i told you that most within even christendom
have sold the ONE TRUE JESUS out
for a love and a lie claoked as though it was of GOD and even is of Christ .
I been watching this for years sister . for years and it has only gotten much worse .
Many , and a number so high not you and i could count it , within christendom
no longer realizes what it has lost and worse that it is lost
and now follows another god , another jesus and a false love .
That aint hate speech , and it darn sure dont give me pleasure , BUT ONLY SADNESS , to even have to see it .
And forget asking me about the number of the remnant cause on that i have no idea .
The only thing i do know is
I AINT FOUND A MAINSTREAM church one i can sit in at all .
Nor does the internet show me such a one .
We got problems sister . And i aint talking about meats drinks and days and that
I mean we dont even have many left that ev en know and or believe the basic gospel
And if even they claim to believe
the moment i then say to them , SO you are t ellling me
that if an atheist , ag nostic , muslim or any other religoin hears that gospel
and dont beleive in JESUS they are in danger of hell fire
ALL OF A Sudden they even say , NO I WOULD NOT SAY THAT . in fact they believe
that if even atheist , muslim , agnostic or any other religon heard the gospel
and yet beleived not ON JESUS , oh if they at least did good works they gonna be okay .
WHAT A lie . people are double minded sister . they now stagger between belief and unbeleif
PROVING they only belive UNBELIEF .
EITHER WE as children BELIEVE JESUS , or we dont . but it cannot b e both .

@amigo de christo

 

[William Barton]

Are you saying that Jesus Christ will return twice?

Yes, twice in a sense.
o. Jesus will descend from heaven and catch up believers into the air, so they may avoid the coming bowl judgments (Revelation 14:14-16).

o. Jesus will subsequently descend to earth with his angels and engage Satan and his angels at the plain of Megiddo (Revelation 16:16, 19:11-21).

 

[amigo de christo]

Why would you put in the quote from me when I was not referring to you? I was answering a statement directed to me that a person should not be excluded based on eschatology. The rancor shown on this forum toward those who hold different eschatology would result in exclusion. You are talking about excluding those who love sin, a completely diffrrent matter.

it was just a reminder for us all .
Yes i can work with those whose views are pre , mid , post trib etc
Even those views we must correct .
but correct that if anyone not only is in sin , but if they even s upport any sin
they must be dealt with according to the biblical pattern Jesus and the apostels left for us .
That means if even a man or woman supports sin . examples , lying , stealing , coveteousness , idolarty
homosexuality , abortion and anything contrary . And if one brings a false gospel
they must also quickly be exposed as well . Unbeleif IS deadly .
And if even i were to call any sin as t hough it were okay and even good
I would be calling GOD a liar who said otherwise .
WE all have to remember , ONLY JESUS the Christ can save and to be sav ed one must beleive .
We all have to remember that JESUS is not the minstir of any sin or unbeleif in the gospel.
And thus any who comes to a jesus that is okay with sin and unbeleif , That one cannot sa ve them .
IT is the devil in wool and his co ministirs who simply p reach another jesus .

 

[rebuilder 454]

How does Jesus say he will return? Not in some secret rapture like you have claimed.

No mention of a secret rapture here:
Mt 24:29-30
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

No mention of a secret rapture here either
Mt 26:64
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

No mention of a secret rapture here either
1:9-11 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

No mention of a secret rapture here either
Rv 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

In short, no where does Jesus say He will return in some secret gathering before the second coming. The pretrib rapture is a big mess of goobly gook. It's not in scripture. It's only in the minds of those who have been taught by false teachers.

You are stuck on the second coming and hoping to fit the rapture in.
Look at Acts one, "...LIKE MANNER".
That is OPPOSITE YOUR THEORY of the rapture.
Rev 14: 14,15 rapture, in no way fits the second coming. IT IS TOTALLY OPPOSITE.

Mat 24 " before the flood", also is OPPOSITE your theory.
In fact all rapture verses are pretrib setting.
Again...OPPOSITE your setting you impose on the passages.

The second coming has no rapture at all.
None, as you have demonstrated.

You simply can not have Jesus VIVIDLY DEPICTING a pretrib rapture, then gathering verses to try and prove JESUS IS MISTAKEN.
That dog will not hunt.

You are busy looking at the second coming, and fail to understand JESUS depicted 3 comings.( TWO have raptures, the other is tge second coming)
Ahem, mat 24 alone has two separate comings.
In fact, you get shown all of them, and deny it exists.

Postribber " one coming" theory is most likely you biggest deception

The other is watching you guys unpack Rev 14.....or the virgin parable, or the "one taken, one left behind"
( watch what posrribbers do to that one, it is hilarious)

Take a look at what your doctrine does to all of those passages.

Then ask yourself why you are in agreement to reframing Gods word.
It is nothing short of appalling.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Yeah, people will be carrying on, but what is it that was also going on in Noah’s day? The fallen angels were here doing their wicked things. That’s how it’ll be again in these latter days:

Luke 17:26-30 (KJV) 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

You just proved there is normal, everyday life at the rapture.
Thank you.

 

[rebuilder 454]

@amigo de christo

Hello guys… Well, we disagree. Here’s my understanding:

Matthew 24:40 "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken and the other left.

The "field" represents the world. And as servants of God, we are supposed to be tending the Good Master's vineyard (Matthew 21) until Jesus returns. Many people pray to be taken during the first coming (pretrib), unaware that they are actually praying to be taken by the Antichrist.

The person taken first is taken by the Antichrist. Our calling is to remain working in the field until Jesus returns at the 7th trump (not the 6th trump).

Matthew 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Again in this verse, the first person taken is deceived by Satan. Again, we’re working for Jesus, following the command to occupy until He returns.

The ones taken are 1/2 of a group of people.
Half are taken
Are you saying half the world's population is taken by the devil?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus said before the flood, (pretrib), one is taken, and the other left behind.

I have yet to see ANY POSTRIBBER UNPACK THAT.
SMH

 

[amigo de christo]

The ones taken are 1/2 of a group of people.
Half are taken
Are you saying half the world's population is taken by the devil?

again you are slightly twisting things and beleieve me it was quite difficult for me to even type Slightly .
But seeing you did make such a statement and did ask a question
allow me to answer . OH ITS GONNA BE MUCH more than one half the world population that the devil has A HOLD upon .
Heck its far more than even HALF of chrsitendom he already has taken captive .
IT will b e exactly as THE LORD said , like in the days of lott and in the days of noah .
VERY FEW TOO HEED and the rest were DESTROYED and had mocked the few.
If you find that hard to beleive , and beleive me i also never desired their destruction
THEN you needs to get in that bible and b e refreshed .
The you compare and contrast to how todays lovey do sensual judge not god is love
WALKS SO contrary to how JESUS walked and later by the SPIRIT the apostels walked .
Do not get offended . i want to show you something . I will do so on the next email
And when you see it , YOU might just be shocked massively . I know i would be
IF i were seeing this for the first time . So be ready to hear and do test this as well .

 

[shepherdsword]

You are stuck on the second coming and hoping to fit the rapture in.
Look at Acts one, "...LIKE MANNER".
That is OPPOSITE YOUR THEORY of the rapture.
Rev 14: 14,15 rapture, in no way fits the second coming. IT IS TOTALLY OPPOSITE.

Mat 24 " before the flood", also is OPPOSITE your theory.
In fact all rapture verses are pretrib setting.
Again...OPPOSITE your setting you impose on the passages.

The second coming has no rapture at all.
None, as you have demonstrated.

You simply can not have Jesus VIVIDLY DEPICTING a pretrib rapture, then gathering verses to try and prove JESUS IS MISTAKEN.
That dog will not hunt.

You are busy looking at the second coming, and fail to understand JESUS depicted 3 comings.( TWO have raptures, the other is tge second coming)
Ahem, mat 24 alone has two separate comings.
In fact, you get shown all of them, and deny it exists.

Postribber " one coming" theory is most likely you biggest deception

The other is watching you guys unpack Rev 14.....or the virgin parable, or the "one taken, one left behind"
( watch what posrribbers do to that one, it is hilarious)

Take a look at what your doctrine does to all of those passages.

Then ask yourself why you are in agreement to reframing Gods word.
It is nothing short of appalling.

I just presented numerous verses where Jesus was explicit about how He would return. He said nothing about some secret return. That is something you are reading into the text. You have believed a pack of lies.

 

[amigo de christo]

Jesus said before the flood, (pretrib), one is taken, and the other left behind.

I have yet to see ANY POSTRIBBER UNPACK THAT.
SMH

Here is my promised response .
Paul warned the church of a coming s trong delusion .
One in which they who had rejected the love of the Truth and thus by means of a lying spirit would all believe a lie .
And before i show us what all are now seeing and t hinking is truth and is of GOD and shall bring this world peace n safety .
ALLow me to remind us all of ALSO what paul said they would all be saying RIGHT BEFORE that SWIFT and SUDDEN
destruction were t ocome upon them all .
PEACE N SAFETY .
And now what do we see going on within more and more of the false religions as well as more and more within
even chistendom . THE LIE . the lie that ALL RELIGOINS are serving the same GOD
and that this PEACE plan IS OF G OD and will usher upon them all PEACE N SAFETY .
THERE IT IS for all to see . THE DELUSION is not coming , ITS HERE

 

[rebuilder 454]

I just presented numerous verses where Jesus was explicit about how He would return. He said nothing about some secret return. That is something you are reading into the text. You have believed a pack of lies.

The only time I hear of "secret return" is with postribbers.
Look through all my posts.
You can not find me ever saying that or believing that.
So what is your next non point?
All you have is one liners with no purpose attached to it.
That is WHY no postribber can unpack the passages by Jesus