Sinless Perfection. Why do so many teach against what Jesus taught?

[Laurina]

Deliverance from the penalty of sin. A.k.a. forgiveness.

Sorry, that doesn't work with Luke 4:18.

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance (aphesis) to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty (aphesis) them that are bruised,"

How does preaching forgiveness help the captives OR help them that are bruised? It's not forgiveness, it's actually freedom/deliverance/liberty and NOT from the "penalty of sin" but FROM SIN (that which holds us captive).
Why do you add the word "penalty"? Are you a sports fan? Are you making a game of this?

 

[Laurina]

Jesus said that here:

Matthew 26:28
28This is My blood of the covenant,e which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Check the concordance, again it's "aphesis" ...deliverance of sins.
There are no penalties taken here unless you change the meaning of the original words. And that penalty is not a 2 minute sitting out penalty (I'm Canadian so I talk hockey, not football), but a "curses will be added to you" type of penalty...NOT A PENALTY YOU'D WANT TO TAKE!

I can't even read the rest of your post because your premise is wrong.

 

[Laurina]

Forgiveness by and through High Priest and Sacrifice, Jesus Christ, has always been the source of forgiveness from the very beginning of mankind.

2 Timothy 1:9-10
9 This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, 10but it has now been revealed through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus

His sacrifice was needed to be able to "cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness."

That's MORE than what forgiveness is.

 

[Laurina]

Matt 26:27 And he took a cup, and when he had given thanks he gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you,
Matt 26:28 for this is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.

Baby milk.

Good day ProDeo!!
Sorry Brother, it's actually "for the aphesis (deliverance) of sins."

Try again!
Blessings !

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

His sacrifice was needed to be able to "cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness."

That MORE than what forgiveness is.

The word that best describes that is 'redemption'. Like how a slave has his debt paid off by a rich relative but is also set free from his slavery.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

Check the concordance, again it's "aphesis" ...deliverance of sins.
There are no penalties taken here unless you change the meaning of the original words. And that penalty is not a 2 minute sitting out penalty (I'm Canadian so I talk hockey, not football), but a "curses will be added to you" type of penalty...NOT A PENALTY YOU'D WANT TO TAKE!

I can't even read the rest of your post because your premise is wrong.

Like the redemption of slaves in the OT, the slave to sin is set free from the taskmaster of sin he has sold himself to BECAUSE someone else in the family who was rich enough paid his debt off, thereby setting him free from his legal obligation to serve sin. In your 'gospel' there is no rich person who comes along and pays your debt for sin, and so you remain in the service of sin trying to pay your debt off yourself. If you think the law of redemption is unreasonable to you, be aware that the law of redemption is in the law and approved by God. It's a picture of what rich brother Jesus has done for his brother Israelites. Us gentiles are included in that.

 

[ProDeo]

David was displeased and afraid of God that day (the importance of having the fear of the Lord??). @ProDeo
.....just saying....

Let's talk about the fear of the Lord and what you mean by that, options -

1. afraid, scared, anxiety, guilt, punishment.

2. Holy Fear, awe, respectfully, reverent, submission.

Your pick ?

Check your Bible, whenever a human has an encounter with the holy what is the first thing that is said ?

Correct, Fear not.

 

[Lizbeth]

How can you murder someone in a state of belief? Once born again of the Spirit do you believe murder can be forgiven? Murder is willful.

Why did God provide a city of refuge for Cain? I think it is possible even for a believer to commit murder, unpremeditated....and it can be forgiven. Same for adultery, I think it's possible for a believer to succumb in a weak moment of temptation and be sorry for it afterwards. The only sin that can't be forgiven according to Jesus, is the sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That is the reason we are not to waste our time praying for someone concerning that. All other sins can be forgiven and that is why we are to pray for someone who sins other sins if we know of or see a brother or sister commit any of them.

 

[ProDeo]

Check the concordance, again it's "aphesis" ...deliverance of sins.

Bible Hub Greek

 

[ProDeo]

Good day ProDeo!!
Sorry Brother, it's actually "for the aphesis (deliverance) of sins."

Try again!
Blessings !

See the Bible Hub Greek I posted.

It's so simple, forgiveness of sins is the base to be in the right standing with the Lord. And with a cleansed conscience we can work out our deliverance from sin.

Correct ?

 

[Laurina]

Let's talk about the fear of the Lord and what you mean by that, options -

1. afraid, scared, anxiety, guilt, punishment.

2. Holy Fear, awe, respectfully, reverent, submission.

Your pick ?

Check your Bible, whenever a human has an encounter with the holy what is the first thing that is said ?

Correct, Fear not.

I just found this verse:

Rev. 19:5
"And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great."

Let's talk about the fear of the Lord and what you mean by that, options -

1. afraid, scared, anxiety, guilt, punishment.

2. Holy Fear, awe, respectfully, reverent, submission.

Your pick ?

Check your Bible, whenever a human has an encounter with the holy what is the first thing that is said ?

Correct, Fear not.

That's why I said and still say "fear of the Lord" not just fear....go back and check what I said!
Now, do your own in depth study on this.
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT!!!
I had listed a few verses, but my study doesn't help you. You have to do the work to be able to understand this at the depth that is needed!!

P.S. UNLESS you hear "Fear not" you're wise to fear!!! Don't assume the "fear not", that will get you the same end as Uzza!

 

[Laurina]

The word that best describes that is 'redemption'. Like how a slave has his debt paid off by a rich relative but is also set free from his slavery.

No, I don't accept that. Redemption doesn't go far enough.

Try again.

 

[Judge Hardcastle]

It's not forgiveness, it's actually freedom/deliverance/liberty and NOT from the "penalty of sin" but FROM SIN (that which holds us captive).

It's both forgiveness of sin and deliverance from sin.

You can't be set free from the slavery of sin until it is forgiven.

Why do you add the word "penalty"?

There is a just and lawful penalty for sin. That penalty doesn't just go away. The justice of God demands that penalty be satisfied. You can pay it if you want but the penalty is death. Or you can let Jesus take your place in the place of judgement as a ransom paid for your freedom and let him absorb the just penalty for your sin (Matthew 20:28). You have chosen to pay the penalty yourself by rejecting Jesus as the substitutionary death God will accept on your behalf. You don't believe and trust God's word that Jesus is the propitiation for your sins that He will accept. That is literally what it means to be in unbelief.

 

[Laurina]

See the Bible Hub Greek I posted.

It's so simple, forgiveness of sins is the base to be in the right standing with the Lord. And with a cleansed conscience we can work out our deliverance from sin.

Correct ?

It has to agree with Isaiah 61:4, which is where Luke 4:18 is quoted from and the word used in Luke 4:18 is "aphesis". The meaning of "forgiveness" does not capture the meaning of "deliverance/liberty". ...because a prisoner can be forgiven but he's still in jail!!
Can you understand what I'm trying to show you? If one is forgiven that's great but, what stops them from sinning again?? They are still in bondage to their sin nature. Jesus came to free us from our very sin nature! That is HOW and WHY we have the potential to walk like He walked in all reality, in truth, not in hypothetical.

 

[Laurina]

It has to agree with Isaiah 61:4, which is where Luke 4:18 is quoted from and the word used in Luke 4:18 is "aphesis". The meaning of "forgiveness" does not capture the meaning of "deliverance/liberty". ...because a prisoner can be forgiven but he's still in jail!!
Can you understand what I'm trying to show you? If one is forgiven that's great but, what stops them from sinning again?? They are still in bondage to their sin nature. Jesus came to free us from our very sin nature! That is HOW and WHY we have the potential to walk like He walked in all reality, in truth, not in hypothetical.

P.S. @ProDeo

Why in Luke 4:18 is "aphesis" translated as "deliverance" and "liberty" (it's used twice in that verse)??? ...and then, in most other places it's translated as forgiveness or remission (remission is closer in meaning because in remission the power is taken away, but freedom is clearer in meaning, as in freedom from sin).

 

[Laurina]

There is a just and lawful penalty for sin.

Yeah, the soul that sins, it shall die.

 

[Laurina]

It's both forgiveness of sin and deliverance from sin.

You can't be set free from the slavery of sin until it is forgiven.

But just because your are forgiven doesn't mean you are delivered from the power of sin.
To say forgiveness of sin IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING deliverance of sin. It doesn't MEAN the same thing. Forgiveness to the captives is not the same as deliverance to the captives. As a captive, which would you prefer, forgiveness or deliverance??? BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Is not being able to commit the sins that are unto death the reason OSAS is true?

The problem with OSAS is many use it as a license to sin. Not everyone going to church is born again of the Spirit. It is an actual life changing experience. Not just a belief of doctrine.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It's okay to believe that he came to do both, right?

Redemptions is not only the forgiveness of sin but deliverance from sin too, like how a slave is redeemed from his taskmaster.

Correct.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So I'm not being holy when I obey God's commands in and one situation or circumstance, only when I always obey his commands and never sin?

Do you ever do something against your conscience? I always obey my conscience and stay in peace. That is walking in the Spirit.