Answering The Error: Did Paul Teach Christ Sent Him Not To Baptize?

[Fred J]

+++i have no conversation with heretics who think that Paul is the Apostle of the Gentiles and Gentile church.
In that case you aint gonna like Gal 2:7-9 :)

Well you ain't gonna like this either.

Acts 9:
15. But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
16. For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of My name."

First of all, the Master Jesus Christ chose Paul as His 'instrument' to minister the Gospel given him to the uncircumcised Gentiles and cirsumcised children of Israel as well.

The Gospel which Paul received is an 'addition' that corresponds with the Gospel received by the 12 Apsotles prior, as one foundation to bring law, order and unity between Jew and Gentile church.

Nevertheless, Paul faced mostly hostility from the Jews and he's most wanted in Israel to be persecuted, therefore his Gospel ministry to the Jews became very difficult.

And at one time, he even washed his hands of them and stop ministering to them the Gospel, even the one give to him for furthermore understanding.

Acts 18:
5. When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that Christ was Jesus.
6. And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."

Henceforth Paul turned his attentiion and Gospel ministry to the Gentiles which was more welcoming and peaceful, besides time to time scattered Jews in Gentile nation gave him trouble.

As a result in the letter to the Galatians later, Paul verifies that the false brothers/spy/seemed influential Jews added to the church, were themselves aware that Paul's Gospel ministry was to the uncircumcised Gentile church. (Gal. 2:7)

This deviation of Gospel which Christ entrusted to Peter later, is to minister unto the saved Jew church, once under the Law as their schoolmaster, circumcised and have not come off it.

And the Gospel which Christ entrusted to Paul later as well, is to minister unto the saved Gentile church who were once Heathens, uncircumcised, immoral, idol worshippers and easily deceived.

But the Gospel unto salvation ministered to the unsaved Jews and Gentiles about sin, repentance, baptism and discipleship, remain the same given to the 12 Apostles and to Paul furthermore in understanding.

Apparently your 'out of context' scripture quotes and shortsighted understanding just falls apart against the context which is the sound doctrine truth in the Holy Bible.

Where scripturally written, only the unlearned and unstable 'wrest' the scripture and doctrine to their own destruction, preaching and imparting another gospel and spirit.

End of discussion.

 

[sondring7]

Well you ain't gonna like this either.

Acts 9:
15. But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine to carry my name before the Gentiles and kings and the children of Israel.
16. For I will show him how much he must suffer for the sake of My name."

First of all, the Master Jesus Christ chose Paul as His 'instrument' to minister the Gospel given him to the uncircumcised Gentiles and cirsumcised children of Israel as well.

The Gospel which Paul received is an 'addition' that corresponds with the Gospel received by the 12 Apsotles prior, as one foundation to bring law, order and unity between Jew and Gentile church.

Nevertheless, Paul faced mostly hostility from the Jews and he's most wanted in Israel to be persecuted, therefore his Gospel ministry to the Jews became very difficult.

And at one time, he even washed his hands of them and stop ministering to them the Gospel, even the one give to him for furthermore understanding.

Acts 18:
5. When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that Christ was Jesus.
6. And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."

Henceforth Paul turned his attentiion and Gospel ministry to the Gentiles which was more welcoming and peaceful, besides time to time scattered Jews in Gentile nation gave him trouble.

As a result in the letter to the Galatians later, Paul verifies that the false brothers/spy/seemed influential Jews added to the church, were themselves aware that Paul's Gospel ministry was to the uncircumcised Gentile church. (Gal. 2:7)

This deviation of Gospel which Christ entrusted to Peter later, is to minister unto the saved Jew church, once under the Law as their schoolmaster, circumcised and have not come off it.

And the Gospel which Christ entrusted to Paul later as well, is to minister unto the saved Gentile church who were once Heathens, uncircumcised, immoral, idol worshippers and easily deceived.

But the Gospel unto salvation ministered to the unsaved Jews and Gentiles about sin, repentance, baptism and discipleship, remain the same given to the 12 Apostles and to Paul furthermore in understanding.

Apparently your 'out of context' scripture quotes and shortsighted understanding just falls apart against the context which is the sound doctrine truth in the Holy Bible.

Where scripturally written, only the unlearned and unstable 'wrest' the scripture and doctrine to their own destruction, preaching and imparting another gospel and spirit.

End of discussion.

Gal 2:7-9
Tell me FJ oh wise one :)
Who did ALL the Apostles agree would teach FJ the Gospel ? :)

 

[David Lamb]

Gal 2:7-9
Tell me FJ oh wise one :)
Who did ALL the Apostles agree would teach FJ the Gospel ? :)

If by FJ you mean Fred J, no Apostles agreed who would teach FJ the gospel. FJ is not mentioned in the Bible by name, nor is anybody alive now, and we don't read of any apostle being told that he would retain his apostleship after his death.

 

[Fred J]

True born again readers,

Lets go by this reasoning, for example, am a Gentile got saved by the 12 Apostles and their Gospel just after the day of Pentecost.

Based on their disicipled and given Gospel ministry and commissioned by Jesus to make disciples of all nations consisting of scattered Jews and Gentiles, am the Gentile have been discipled with.

And since am born from above, was able to 'see' the Gospel of Christ given to them that discipled to me, and by this me finally received Christ and believed in His name. (John 3:3)

And likewise accordingly in my acknowledgement, they baptized me, of water and of the Holy Ghost in order to 'enter' the Kingdom of GOD. (John 3:5)

Henceforth i became a member of a uncircumcised Gentile church where am confortable with compared to a circumcised Jew church where'll feel out of place and stared upon.

Since we Jew and Gentile believers already established as the body of Christ, but from the beginning there were division between us both in faith, lacking knowledge, without law and order, in the body itself.

Therefore the 12 Apostles comtinued the same mimistry in all nations making disciples unto salvation, and meantime the divided church suffered without a standard rule, discpline and order.

Then towards the 'middle' of everything when i have been growing built in the Gospel foundation of the 12, with them fellowshipped and served in the body of Christ or church day by day.

Suddenly here comes Paul with another Gospel specifically for the uncircumcised Gentile unbelievers and believers.

Then what about those or me beforehand already saved by the 12 Apostles' Gospel ministry, whilst already discipled and built in their foundation as well?

Do i need to go back a second time and disciple by the Gospel of Paul in order to be saved once again, as to crucify the Lord a second time?

To me the irony is, then GOD is apparently an author of confusion and not of peace, where did HE go wrong that HE had to send Paul to fix HIS mistake?

Why did i have to go through all that trouble to be saved by the Gospel of the 12 Apostles, discipled, built upon, established in the body of Christ?

All along fellowshiped and served by the Gospel ministry of the 12 Apostles before Paul, and all of them was done in vain?

Henceforth have to renounce everything, hence now be discipled and be saved by the Gospel ministry of Paul to start all over again?

Did Paul write to any of the uncircumcised Gentile church, that he ministered and established them as church by his gospel?

Yes, he did because those are the church founded by him with the gospel of Christ unto salvation like the 12 Apostles', and with the Gospel as follow given to him.

Nevertheless, did Paul specifically say to them that they are built in his Gospel foundation alone sent by Christ?

NO!!!

Now this is the truth in context of the New Testament scripture compared to the above reasoning, that which resonates with me;

In the beginning there's the Gospel given to Israel and that which discipled the 12 Apostles specifically, and were commissioned likewise make disciple of all nation.

Next when there was disorder, division and confusion in the established body of Christ between Jew and Gentile believers, Jesus Christ sent Paul with the Gospel as follow to bring 'order'.

In the book of Acts, Paul often engaged with especially Peter who ministered from Jerusalem and with the church of the circumcised there.

Based on the matter that has caused disunity between the Jew and Gentile believers, and ministered the Gospel as follow given to him by Christ to bring peace.

Now, the Gospel of Christ given to the 12 Apostles in the beginning was unto discipleship and salvation of unbelievers, whether Jews or Gentiles.

Furthermore the Gospel of Christ as follow given to Paul later is to bring law and order in the established Jew and Gentile churches.

As a result to both of these Gospels become one foundation, Peter more suited to minister with the Jews and church, parted ways with Paul who's suited to minister to the Gentile and church.

Jesus Christ is the 'author' of the Gospel through the 12 Apsotles in the beginning and 'finisher' of the Gospel through Paul later of our faith.

Both as one foundation, for the circumcised Jews and uncircumcised Gentiles unto salvation, and unto order in the established churches, bringing peace between Jew and Gentile believers.

That's what we have today, beginning with which were given to the 12 Apostles, combined with which given to Paul's as follow, furthermore too canonized others until the Revelation given to John.

Assuredly is certified as the one foundation and New Covenant for both Jews and Gentiles, whether unbelievers or believers the established churches.

Whereby partly of the Gospel can be ministered to the unbelievers unto salvation and partly as follow can be ministered to the believers the established body of Christ.

To conclude, even Paul acknowledged addressing to the Ephesian Gentile church as follow;

Ephesians 2:
19. Therefore you(Gentiles) are no longer outsiders (exhiles, migrants, and aliens, excluded from the rightd of citizens), but you now share citizenship with the saints (GOD's own people, consecrated and set apart for HIMSELF); and you belong to GOD's {own} household.
20. You(Gentiles) are built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets with Christ Jesus Himself the Chief Cornerstone.

Therefore the division of the Gospel, one for the Jews and one for Gentiles came from 'heretics' of our time, and not from Paul and his given doctrine by Christ (2Peter3:15-17)

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Fred J]

7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

The one who saw, were these reliable witnesses?

8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

Where in the Gospel is written that Jesus made Peter an Apostle to the Jews and Paul an Apostle to the Gentiles?

9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

This was an intermediate period of the Gospel, where there was 'shift' in acceptance and preference between the Jew and Gentile believers or church, whether Peter or Paul would best serve them.

Since Peter's ministry and establishment was from Jerusalem and more towards the Jews, while Paul's was outside of Jerusalem and more towards the surrounding Gentile nations.

But the Gospel unto salvation is ministered the same, even Paul water baptized when Jesus didn't send him to baptize, since baptism started way earlier and ongoing, and Paul need not minister about that.

Moreover, this did not include the 10 other Apostles of Christ in other nations, since it was from Jerusalem whilst the outskirts where Peter, John and James were and the immediate surrounding Gentile nations where Paul was.

The remaining 10 Apostles absent to these things, apparently in other further Gentile nations ministering the same Gospel discipled and commissioned by Jesus Christ, whilst established churches.

 

[David Lamb]

I've observed the Gal 2:7-9 debate elsewhere with interest
These are 3 easy questions

1st - are you heathen or the circumcision

Surely the contrast in Scripture is between circumcision and uncircumcision, i.e. Jew and Gentile, rather than heathen and circumcision. For what it's worth, I am a Gentile. However, we are told that in Christ that makes no difference:

NKJV Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

2nd - based on your answer who is the Apostle that teaches you the gospel

Any of the apostles who were human "penmen" of the Bible, and any of the apostles whose words are quoted in the Bible.

3rd - What are the actual gospel verses that that apostle quotes that teaches how you are saved

There are so many, by various apostles, including John 3:16 and Paul in Acts 16:31.

Often well meaning believers will in vain rely on their opinions rather than actual verses.

Gal 2:7-9
7But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8(For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

But those verses make no mention of Paul, Peter (Cephas), James or John continuing their apostleship after the end of their life on earth.

 

[Fred J]

Surely the contrast in Scripture is between circumcision and uncircumcision, i.e. Jew and Gentile, rather than heathen and circumcision. For what it's worth, I am a Gentile. However, we are told that in Christ that makes no difference:

NKJV Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Any of the apostles who were human "penmen" of the Bible, and any of the apostles whose words are quoted in the Bible.

There are so many, by various apostles, including John 3:16 and Paul in Acts 16:31.

But those verses make no mention of Paul, Peter (Cephas), James or John continuing their apostleship after the end of their life on earth.

Going by the epistles of Paul, the issue was more directed to the established churches, division, confusion and deception between the Jew and Gentile believers or church.

Furthermore to the initial Gospel given and commissioned for the salvation of the world, a Gospel as folow was required to bring law and order between the divided, confused and decieved Jew and Gentile believers.

Since to top it off to make matters worse, there were also Jews as false brethren, secretly smuggled in and are spy, who's not found of Paul nor Paul is found of them. (Galatians 2:4)

And that's the Gospel as follow ministry, where Peter is more suited to work with the circumcised believers and Paul is more suited to work with the uncircumcised believers.

Whereas the 10 other Apostles who are absent, apparently continued with their initial disicpled, given and commissioned Gospel by Christ to other Gentile nations for salvation.

Until the scripture to the Gospel as follow from Peter and Paul, shall arrive to the 10 Apostles and are read to the Jew and Gentile believers there, then they'll be well aware.

i believe these reasoning make more sense to the Gospel dispensation that took place in the New Testament, thank you.

 

[David Lamb]

List the gospel verses that teach how you are saved.
Giving an opinion will confirm that you dont know those verses, so either ask or don't bother responding :)

I already answered that. I wrote: "There are so many, by various apostles, including John 3:16 and Paul in Acts 16:31." A few other verses about how sinners are saved are:

NKJV
Jhn 10:9 I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.

Act 2:21 AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS THAT WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.'

Act 4:11 This is the 'STONE WHICH WAS REJECTED BY YOU BUILDERS, WHICH HAS BECOME THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE.'
Act 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Sorry - I have just noticed that you specified "gospel verses". However, the apostles preached the gospel, so although many of the verses I quoted are not from the 4 gospels, I believe they are still relevant.

 

[David Lamb]

Responding as requested is not your strong point nor is understanding Scripture, I reject your fanciful thoughts.

I am sorry for apparently misunderstanding. I thought you were asking for Bible verses that teach us how sinners are saved, and I quoted some. Why are you saying that I am not responding as requested? I humbly apologise if I have misunderstood your request. If "List the gospel verses that teach how you are saved." doesn't mean that you want me to list verses that teach how sinners are saved, what does it mean?

 

[Fred J]

I am sorry for apparently misunderstanding. I thought you were asking for Bible verses that teach us how sinners are saved, and I quoted some. Why are you saying that I am not responding as requested? I humbly apologise if I have misunderstood your request. If "List the gospel verses that teach how you are saved." doesn't mean that you want me to list verses that teach how sinners are saved, what does it mean?

John chapter 3, verse 3 & 5, how any man in general in this world can be saved, not Jews alone.

John ch. 1, vs. 10 & 11, Jesus came into this world with the Gospel, He came to meet both, to the world(Gentiles) made by Him, did not recognise Him, and to those(Jews) belong to Him, did not welcome Him.

According to John ch. 3, vs. 16, GOD so loved the world, sons and daughters of Adam and Eve, not Jews alone the Gospel of Christ in the New Testament is for.

Jesus Himself answered to Nicodemus by specifically saying, 'Except a man', in general any man, whether Jews or Gentiles doesn't matter, both are beloved.

John ch. 1, vs. 12 & 13, as many who receive Him and believe in His name, not specifically those by birth, nor blood line, nor of linage, nor by one's will, namely Jews.

But rather generally whether Jews and Gentiles, He gave them power to become the children of GOD.

Ephesians ch. 2, vs. 8 & 9, Paul is addressing to the Gentile church how they are saved, goes hand in hand as above as well.

Romans ch. 11, verse 5, Paul explains to the Gentile church that at present time including him, there's a remnant of Jews are saved under the election of grace.

Therefore is 'parallel', whether Jews and Gentiles, both are saved under the election of grace and by the same Gospel message, that is grace and truth brought by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

There's no Gospel variance, as one for Jews by the 12 Apostles and one for the Gentiles by Paul, which only the claims of heretics of our time.

P:eriod